cast bullet ricochet risk

[nelsonted1]

Do cast bullet ricochet worse than jacketed bullets? I know there are a lot of variations in jacketed; varmint, solids, 1/2 jackets, etc. The problem, or I should say worry, I have is I intend to hunt coyotes in pastures in Ky and there are people everywhere, over every hill. I intend to use preditor/varmint bullets in an AR15.

THE question is do hard cast ricochet? OR just splat. Go fast or slow ie 708 speed, 30-30 speed. How about soft bullets. I've got an assortment of rifles and pistols I could use.

This topic has been a nightmare all the years I've been shooting. I guess as it should be.

TED

[Hunter]

I am no expert but I believe any bullet has a good chance if a ricochet. I would imagine even a deformed or fragmented lead round can ricochet with unpredictable results. It may not 9 times then the 1 time everything is right it will. I would think there is enough of a chance not to risk it.

[waksupi]

They definitely will richocet. Why, I remember as a kid, every shot that Roy Rogers or the Lone Ranger made, always richocheted~! Peeow!Wheeee!

[felix]

The only bullets you can shoot safely within city limits are the varmit bullets at maximum velocity. But, if you miss and the bullet slows way down, all bets are off. Besides that, the noise level is far to high to even contemplate such a feat. ... felix

[Ricochet]

I hear whistling ricochets with nearly every shot with my cast rifle loads out at the range, with the boolits hitting a plain grass lawn behind the targets at a low angle. When I fire at the 50 and 100 yard targets, I often hear the unstable bullets strike the more distant target boards with a loud whack, probably hitting sideways. The 100 yard boards are full of sideways .22LR bullets stuck sideways in the plywood after glancing off the ground behind the 50 yard boards. The jacketed bullets also nearly always ricochet, unless they happen to hit a rock. FMJ or SP, makes little difference. Rarely one will burrow into the ground. There's a ridge behind the range that catches the ricochets.

[Char-Gar]

As Felix said, any bullet except very light and fast varmint type rounds can ricochet. Ricochets can be very, very dangerous and every effort should be made to not shoot at targets on the ground, but put the bullet into a berm at an angle so it will stay put.

A couple of weeks ago, I was at our local range and some kid was in on of the pistol bays with berms on all three sides. He was trying to machine gun his 9mm autopistol at targets on the ground and every third round what whinning off into the countryside, over the 15 foot berms.

I got up from my bench and went over and gave the lad some not so gentle instructions on range safety.

Avoiding shots that might richochet is part of being a mature shooter.

[KCSO]

Cast bullets can and do richochet. I have recovered some cast bullets that richocheted into our berm and in most all cases the bullets were deformed enough that their range would be limited. I would guess that from the shape of the recovered projectiles they would carry maybe 300 yards and be lethal inside 150. an undeformed bullet or a jacketed slug wil still be lethal at over 1 mile. I cover a case one time where a 308 150 gr bullet went through a coyote and came off hard packed snow to go through a car window 1 mile away and went through a mans face from side to side.

[nelsonted1]

KSCO made me swallow a couple times with this: "...I cover a case one time where a 308 150 gr bullet went through a coyote and came off hard packed snow to go through a car window 1 mile away and went through a mans face from side to side."

I grew up on a farm in MN. We shot blackbirds with .22 rifles in the huge cattail swamp in the middle of the farm every year. We were always careful about the water in the middle being a ricochet hazard. Two years ago I sent a .22 round into the swamp and noticed a puff on the freshly tilled hillside two hundred yards beyond the swamp. I shot a second round and got another puff of dirt. A neighbor walks his dogs along the field road above that hillside and those rounds would have bounced over his head or into them! Think about that one for a second.

[Leftoverdj]

Yeah, it's a problem, and yeah, fragile varmint bullets at high velocity are the best safeguard. Past that, it's a function of weight and terminal velocity. I feel pretty safe shooting my .25-20 in any reasonable situation. It's going to shed velocity and destabilize if I do get a ricochet. I'd be a lot more worried about a .44 at the same velocity, but four times the weight, and flat terrified about a .45-70 at seven times the weight.

[NVcurmudgeon]

I agree with all the above posts and would add that, under the right conditions, even a 75 gr. Sierra .243 HP at a mv of 3500 fps will ricochet. Be careful out there.

[doc25]

It is up to the hunter to make sure there is a safe backstop for the bullet. If there is no safe backstop then don't make the shot or use something a little bit safer like a shotgun.

[357maximum]

It is up to the hunter to make sure there is a safe backstop for the bullet. If there is no safe backstop then don't make the shot or use something a little bit safer like a shotgun.

One of the worst richochet prone rounds ever invented was the 12 gauge foster slug.....I have seen them end up 300+ yards away and at a 45 degree angle from their starting position...If you can find a huge dry tilled field away from anything and everyone you can see it for yourself...slug gun laws are just as ignorant as the lawyers that suggest them...it always has and always will come down to the nut behind the gun...not which caliber he is currently in posession of..

[KCSO]

I witnessed a 45 cal round ball from a M/L fired into a hillside come back 180 and take the spotlight of the Chief's cruiser. The ball hit a slanting rock and came almost straight back. The Officer doing the shooting had to buy a new spotlight from his own pocket! We were pissed he missed the chief.

[waksupi]

Over the years, I remember one of the neighbor kids shooting his brother, with a ricochet off of a pond. Another instance, was oneof my freinds on the Sherrifs department. Shot a steel jacketed bullet at a steel target. Dumb idea. Part of the jacket came back, and went about a quarter inch into his belly. We enjoyed removing it for him. And, the X was shooting her .38 special, and had one come back and hit her in the boob. I've seen too many hardballs come back off of my targets, and don't allow thier use on my range anymore.

[PAT303]

I do a bit off feral control at a mates dairy and use 100grn cast lee pistol bullets that I hollow point in a jig I made up.Thats the only way to lesson the problem as the bullets are short and don't seem to carry as far as rifle ones, but I still have to be careful. It's painful having to give up an easy kill but the thought of hitting someone or something is'nt worth thinking about. PAT

[DanWalker]

I took a hit from a jacket bounceback off of a steel plate from a 300 maggie my bud was shooting. Target was 75 yards out. If I hadn't been wearing a thick coat it would've broken my arm. bruised up nice though.
another caliber really prone to ricochet is the 17hmr. we shoot lots of prairie dogs with one belonging to a friend of mine, and it skips quite frequently. The caliber I've found least prone to skip is the 17 remington. 20 grain bullets at over 4000fps just disintegrate upon contact with anything.

[Lloyd Smale]

hell we have alot of fun on the range by doing just that. I have a bunch of steal silouettes set at my range and we bounce bullets off the ground and hit them. you can do it pretty consistantly once you find the right spot.

[Ricochet]

Re bouncebacks, I recall reading circa 1970 a letter in the American Rifleman from a fellow who fired a .270 130 grain Silvertip at a piece of railroad rail. When he fired he felt something funny in his eye. A piece of jacket about the size of the end of a cigarette bounced back and entered his eye. He lost the eye.

[doc25]

One of the worst richochet prone rounds ever invented was the 12 gauge foster slug.....I have seen them end up 300+ yards away and at a 45 degree angle from their starting position...If you can find a huge dry tilled field away from anything and everyone you can see it for yourself...slug gun laws are just as ignorant as the lawyers that suggest them...it always has and always will come down to the nut behind the gun...not which caliber he is currently in posession of..

Sorry by shotgun I meant with shot, not slug. I should have specified. It's quite incredible how close you can be to shot, get hit and not get hurt. Just happened to me a couple of weeks ago.

[AZ-Stew]

The angle at which the bullet impacts can have a big effect on its tendency to ricochet. Generally, the shallower the angle, the greater the likelihood of a ricochet. If you're coyote hunting from a sitting or prone position at ground level, you're probably going to have a lot of ricochets, unless you're using the previously mentioned fast, lightweight bullets that are designed for violent expansion or disintegration on impact while varmint hunting.

Your best bet is to change the angle at which the bullet is likely to hit the ground. The more nearly perpendicular the bullet's line of flight is to the object it hits, the less the chance of ricochet. This is one of the reasons elevated stands are popular for deer hunting in flat parts of the country, such as Texas. If it's practical for you, build an elevated stand so you're shooting down toward the ground, rather than across the ground. This won't prevent all ricochets, but it will certainly reduce the possibility.

Regards,

Stew

[lcclower]

FBI training film with some info on ricochets, https://youtu.be/Ri4e_wpDc54

[BCB]

They definitely will richocet. Why, I remember as a kid, every shot that Roy Rogers or the Lone Ranger made, always richocheted~! Peeow!Wheeee!

That is correct. Hell, I even remember when Roy fired a warning shot straight up into the air, it ricocheted...

But, here is a link--don't know if it is real or not...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0ABGIJwiGBc

Good-luck...BCB

[Digital Dan]

Ricochets are a study of infinite improbability theory or something like that. No matter how unlikely it might seem, if it can happen, it will. It only takes a few months/years jerking the trigger on a minigun to appreciate that. It matters not what the alloy or velocity and sometimes not even what takes the first impact of the bullet. Some things can minimize the risk, but there in never a sure fire solution. Judicious application of common sense seasoned with abundant caution is the best medicine.

[square butte]

I had a 22 mag hollow point come straight back and split my left eye brow - Shot from a rifle with a right hand hold. No eye protection. Shooting at the ends of fired shot shells laid on a stump at about 25 yards. A young and foolish 18 years old. I call that Grace - That I can see to tell about it at age 65

[shooterg]

All our Range members attend an orientation - all are instructed to place targets at heights that will result in impacts in one of the multiple berms(50 yards on Pistol - 110, 210,and a big ole hill at 300 on Rifle) . Sure , we still get some, but generally from some knothead that gets sent back to remedial Range orientation ! We are surrounded by subdivisions, so we have to be stricter than you lucky guys that have miles of empty downrange !
Was walking to the 100 once in a "walk and paste" match when the fellow next to me was clipped in the ankle by a .38 wadcutter richocheted from Pistol , hard enough to bruise. Had to have bounced at about a 70 degree angle. Weird stuff happens.

[w5pv]

I shot at a steel band around a utility pole and the bullet came back and hit me in the chest,I am glad that it was in the winter and I had extra clothes on.This was with a 22 single shot rifle and 22 shorts it bruised me but no broken skin.Lesson that I never forgot

[OS OK]

Bow hunt.

[quail4jake]

We must always think about where a projectile may go on secondary trajectory, know your target and beyond, always be sure of your backstop. Some of the worst are soft, heavy, slow musket balls and shotgun slugs. My backstop is soft sand and I monitor carefully what happens with our steel targets, I truthfully think these are some of the safest slug absorbers provided we do it by the rules...A500 armor, free hanging, downward angle, smooth...
Think about the likelihood of anything bouncing at a low angle to the horizontal...The Civil war era artillery practice with canister shot was to sight for below the feet of the enemy infantry line to strike the shot at about 4 degrees and the bouncing shot would scatter and open the pattern to about twice the linear distribution of a direct hit. Yeah, it's that reliable!

[PS Paul]

This happened back in '94, so I believe the statute of limitations has run out.....

i was at a range in coastal Bay Area. One of the very few that allowed shooting of objects (plates, water bottles, bricks, etc) rather than just paper targets.
i had a friend who enjoyed loading and shooting big-game rifles same as I did. I was shooting my model 70 in 458 win mag and he had just purchased an absolutely gorgeous Art Alphin custom rifle in Alphin's 500 A Square. He'd brought some ammo loaded with 600 gr bronze solids(!), so we were truly enjoying blowing up some 2 liter bottles wed frozen overnight. Spectacular impacts!
well, after a bit of this, a local Sherriff pulled up right behind us and parked broadside to the range. I noticed him walk up to the RO's office as I was launching one of those 600 gr bronze solids at what remained of one of those plastic bottles. Just as the office door closed behind the Sherriff, that 600 gr solid hit a rock in the backstop and came back DIRECTLY at my forehead. It was moving slowly enough that I could thankfully see it and I leaned to the left as that solid whizzed past me and smacked the driver's door on that Sherriff's patrol car! It left a pretty nice dent in the door, of course.....
We looked around to make sure nobody else witnessed what happened. It was busy that day, but in all the noise and commotion, the solid denting that door went unnoticed. I ran over and picked up the projectile. It was intact, but had oddly butterflied open from tip of the nose to about halfway down the shank!
We scrambled and grabbed up all our gear and hightailed it outta there quick as can be. Whew.
i suppose you could say I dodged a bullet that fine day in more ways than one!!!!
Paul

[Plate plinker]

​F the POLICE. :kidding:

[beagle]

Don't know who resurrected this thread but it's pertinent at any time especially here in Kentucky where there are loads of cattle and some high dollar horses..

I was fortunate enough to borrow GeorgeXXXs Ness Non-ricochet mould and cast a bunch. It's a .30 and was designed for shooting groundhogs back in the days when Springfields were cheap and ricochets were not desired. I tested them in a Number 1 Ruger at 100 yards by firing into the flat ground in front of the targets. I detected no ricochets into the berm behind it. I did this with about 25 rounds out of a 50 round box. Then I plinked a few at small rocks on the berm with some more. The last five I shot at my buddy's target at 100 yards. Now, the ness non-ricochet is a .30 bullet with a flat wad cutter nose and a huge hollow point weighing in at 152.5 grains and I expected little accuracy from it but the five I fired at his target clustered into 3/4". "Almost had a big one, Ethel !"

I've read Ness's work on it and from my experiments and George's, it appears that it works well and is very accurate. See castpics for the articles./beagle

[castalott]

If you can shoot across ground that has been worked fine in prep for planting, you can see the original impact and up to 4 or 5 'poofs' farther on.....

Watch the 'Knob Creek' machine gun video of the nighttime tracer shoots if you want to see ricochets...

Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot Night Shoot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31vm3-BQRJU



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31vm3-BQRJU

[popper]

just getting my GKs into shooting pellet rifle. Shot at a paper late on a tree 10 yds. from the house deck. Ricochet hit the wall behind me. Plain ole lead 177 target pellets.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

One of the worst richochet prone rounds ever invented was the 12 gauge foster slug.....I have seen them end up 300+ yards away and at a 45 degree angle from their starting position...If you can find a huge dry tilled field away from anything and everyone you can see it for yourself...slug gun laws are just as ignorant as the lawyers that suggest them...it always has and always will come down to the nut behind the gun...not which caliber he is currently in possession of..

when our county went from shotgun only to Rifle the Sheriffs deputies noticed a significant decrease in the number of trucks ,out buildings and farm equipment hit by stray
projectiles. they would take calls each year for slugs through tail gates or into outbuilding.
r

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

just getting my GKs into shooting pellet rifle. Shot at a paper late on a tree 10 yds. from the house deck. Ricochet hit the wall behind me. Plain ole lead 177 target pellets. yup , people give me a hard time when I make even the spectators wear safety glasses when the 4-H kids shoot air rifle , in one day of shooting air rifle silhouettes I got hit 4 times , the pellets don't have the speed to penetrate wood so they bounce and come back , it stings.

the reason we get away with shooting steel targets with pistols at as little as 24 feet is because they have the energy to deform flat and spray flat out from the plate just check a wood target base you can see the line of lead fragments embedded in it.

[kmrra]

All bullets will ricochet , the only one I have been hit with was at an indoor range shooting bowling pin match and one of mine came back and hit me on the knee. But I did winthe match LOL