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762cavalier
03-14-2011, 09:33 PM
OK so someone gave me 2 lbs of winchester 296. I want to load some full house .44 mag for use in a Ruger SBH and a Marlin 1894. I have some 250gr. GC Beartooth bullets I would like to use. I also have many 240 gr. PB bullets that are about 12bhn. Sizing is not an issue for the SBH but I still have to slug the marlin.

Questions I have are I am having difficulty finding loads with 296. I have heard (and see on the powder burn chart) that it is virtually the same as H110. So does anybody have any loads.

Question 2 I see warnings not to download 296/H110 too much but don't seem to see any agreement on how much is too much. and without a decent start load I don't want anything to go sideways.

I usually use 2400 but since I have these 2 lbs for free I would like to try it out. So I am looking for a little forum knowledge and experience with this powder.

spqrzilla
03-14-2011, 09:36 PM
WW 296 is not "virtually" the same as H110. It is the same powder, within lot to lot variations.

Use any H110 data you find. You'll find that published loads have a very short range between "starting" and "maximum" for H110/WW296. Usually 5% in many of the data I've on hand. At most, 10%. Hodgdon's own website will give the exact same pressure, and velocity to charge weight for listings of each bullet. That's because they don't differentiate between them in their testing. Same powder. Looking at Hodgdon's data on their website, they don't seem to use H110/WW296 for cast bullets that light in .44 Magnum. I think that they have listings for Beartooth Bullets in heavier weights ( that's what I think "BTB" means in their bullet listing ).

FISH4BUGS
03-14-2011, 09:40 PM
OK so someone gave me 2 lbs of winchester 296. I want to load some full house .44 mag for use in a Ruger SBH and a Marlin 1894. I have some 250gr. GC Beartooth bullets I would like to use. I also have many 240 gr. PB bullets that are about 12bhn. Sizing is not an issue for the SBH but I still have to slug the marlin.

Questions I have are I am having difficulty finding loads with 296. I have heard (and see on the powder burn chart) that it is virtually the same as H110. So does anybody have any loads.

Question 2 I see warnings not to download 296/H110 too much but don't seem to see any agreement on how much is too much. and without a decent start load I don't want anything to go sideways.

I usually use 2400 but since I have these 2 lbs for free I would like to try it out. So I am looking for a little forum knowledge and experience with this powder.

I posted a similar question some time ago with lots of responses. Try this link:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=36794

Lots of info.

MtGun44
03-15-2011, 12:21 AM
Go to Hodgdon's web site, lots of loading data for free.

Bill

bobthenailer
03-15-2011, 08:35 AM
IN the 44 mag ive never gone below 20.0 grs or above 24 grs of 296 with a 240/250 gr bullet .

Rocky Raab
03-15-2011, 10:01 AM
110/296 requires a full charge, not reduced much or at all. The listed Maximum IS the Start load. It also requires a magnum primer (preferably WW), a heavy bullet and hard crimp. Jacketed bullets are better because they offer more friction and resistance, the reason for all the requirements noted.

It can be a very quirky powder if those requirements are not met. Hangfires, bloopers, stuck bullets - OR massive overpressure and a burst gun can all happen seemingly at random.

fecmech
03-15-2011, 10:19 AM
From the Winchester 14th edition powder manual(1995)
240 gr Lead SWC--25 grs 296 37500 CUP
240 gr jacketed--24 grs 296 38000 CUP

Back in the 70's I shot a few 8 lb kegs of 296 in Silhouette using 25/296/429421. It clocked about 1350 fps out of my 7.5" SBH. IMO for cast bullets at max velocities in the .44 and .357 296/h110 can't be beat.
I had excellent results with Federal std LP primers, never used mag primers. Not saying you shouldn't, I never felt the need.

44man
03-16-2011, 10:06 AM
110/296 requires a full charge, not reduced much or at all. The listed Maximum IS the Start load. It also requires a magnum primer (preferably WW), a heavy bullet and hard crimp. Jacketed bullets are better because they offer more friction and resistance, the reason for all the requirements noted.

It can be a very quirky powder if those requirements are not met. Hangfires, bloopers, stuck bullets - OR massive overpressure and a burst gun can all happen seemingly at random.
This is just not true. All listed .44 starting loads are safe and the powder will never spike all of a sudden even when going over max carefully. I have known of WAY over max loadings with no pressure signs.
Cast can use more then jacketed in most cases depending on boolit design.
I have been using it since it came out and shortly discovered YOU DO NOT NEED A MAG PRIMER. They triple groups for me with any bullet or boolit. All of my years of IHMSA shooting never seen a mag primer and I still use only the Fed 150. The CCI standard works as well.
Only downloading below listed starting loads can cause failures to ignite, air space, the powder must be close to the flash hole. Only primer heat is needed, not primer pressure. Primer pressure can drive out a boolit and increase air space. If you think case tension and any crimp you can achieve will resist primer pressure, I have news for you.
I will tell you where ANY download will fail, even starting loads. In the .454 Casull with the SR mag primer. All pressure, no heat! The bullet and unburned powder will be blown quite a distance into the bore. Only max or over max loads will ignite.
I opened primer pockets for the LP primer and they will ignite even starting loads with a Fed 150 but the Fed 155 is more accurate.
If a 150 will work in the .454, it has more then enough heat for a .44.
Since a standard primer works best in the .44 with H110 and 296, why in the world would you need a mag primer with any other powder?
I have been shooting the .44 since 1956 and have NEVER had a failure of any kind. 2400 can be dangerous with an over load as can every other faster powder but 296 and H110 are the safest powders if you do not download below starting loads or blow it into the barrel.

songdog53
03-16-2011, 10:21 AM
I use 296 with 44 mag in rifle and has proved to be great on rifle. With 240gr J bullet is really accurate and i am sure starting loads are safe or they wouldn't list them in manuals. I do load mine hot because use the rifle to deer hunt with. I always thought had to use mag primer with everything on 44 mag till recently. Found will work fine with any flake powder but 296 is ball powder and rule of thumb has always been to use mag primer with ball powder.

Rocky Raab
03-16-2011, 12:52 PM
While I respect your beliefs, 44Man, I think I'll go with what Chris Hodgdon tells me, if that's okay with you.

felix
03-16-2011, 01:28 PM
No problem, Rocky, but I tend to go with The 44man, Jim. Bruce must protect his business first and foremost which has absolutely nothing to do with accuracy. I never have seen anything about the SEE condition being printed for consumption by any vendor dealing with guns other than the SEE condition does not exist. ... felix

44man
03-16-2011, 02:48 PM
The Fed 150 has proven to light off all loads from starting to max in the .475 and .500 JRH however the cases are large enough for a LP mag primer and it proves to be more accurate.
The 150 will even work fine in the 45-70 but again, the mag primer is more accurate. When I go to the LR primer in my 45-70 revolver, accuracy drops again.
The little .44 case is a perfect fit to a standard primer. By the way, all of my .45 colt loads with 296 also use a Fed 150.
I wonder why Fed .44 factory loads have gone to the 150 primer?
Working with the .45 ACP with the LP primer has shown some funny results and going to the SP standard primer has reduced groups both in the revolver and the 1911.
Case capacity, primer heat and primer pressure needs to be in balance. Ball powders work great with heat only.

BABore
03-16-2011, 03:27 PM
The magnum versus standard large pistol primer effect is even more pronounced when you step down to the 41 Mag. I've never found the need, nor seen accuracy improvements, by using a magnum primer in the 41 mag with 296/110. I've gone both ways on the 44 Mag, but only base my choice on accuracy. The bigger the case, the more likely that a mag primer MAY shoot better. It's always worth the effort to try both. I've never had any problems with standard primers and 296/110 in weather as cold as 0 F.

spqrzilla
03-16-2011, 04:13 PM
I've had the opposite experience, with poor results in my .41 Magnum if I use non-magnum CCI large pistol primers under H110/WW296. Winchester LP or CCI magnum large pistol work better for me.

The advisory about not using reduced loads with WW296/H110 has been part of the published information about WW296 for as long as I can remember it being offered for sale. Its information that started with the powders' manufacturer, Winchester/Olin, long ago.

ironhead7544
03-16-2011, 05:07 PM
I use the listed Winchester 240 gr jacketed 296 load as an accuracy test. If the revolver/rifle wont shoot that load theres something wrong with the gun. There is an article on BTB about the 250 gr gc bullet.

firefly1957
03-16-2011, 08:17 PM
You do not say how old your WW-296 is, it may not be the same as H-110 if it is older. I do not know when they made the change but am sure it has been twenty years or so. I use it in 44 Magnum behind 200 and 240 gr bullets and magnum primers work best I shoot these in both pistols and rifle. I generally use IMR-4227 in full loads with cast bullets so I can not help you there.

spqrzilla
03-16-2011, 10:28 PM
H110 has always been WW296.

44man
03-17-2011, 02:07 PM
H110 has always been WW296.
This is true. The only difference was what lots WW and Hodgdon got. There was always a small difference in burn rate. H110 was on the slower side and needed maybe 1/2 gr or less to equal 296.
Even though Hodgdon handles both powders now, rates and lots have not changed for canister powders.

Tom-ADC
03-17-2011, 04:48 PM
I still have a few maybe 5 lbs left over from years gone buy, I shoot it in my 44 mags and 30 carbine. Great powder.