TLC311-165-RF and OAL

[Jech]

Got my new 3x3 TLC311-165-RF here and got a couple hundred boolits cast up with some waterquenched range lead...came out between .313" and .314" and almost too hard for my fingernail to scratch Smiley They've been put through a light tumbling of Recluse's 45/45/10, sized to .310" (for a .3090" bore), checks crimped and finally dipped them in LLA. Aside from stinking up the whole house, they look great!

I'm loading for a 91xxxxxx series 336ss and am seeing fairly different chamber sizes than the "use at your own risk" on RD's website shows. There's a 2.481" OAL minimum on RD's data...my issue is that my dummies have to be 2.432" or less otherwise they take considerable effort to close the lever and upon extraction, will have pretty nasty engravings from the rifling on the bullet.

Obviously, I will be working up my own load data from a very safe level since the OAL is well under RD's posted data but is this "too short?" I'm using ~2.035" Winchester brass and the LFCD-crimped mouth is resting on the ogive well past the crimp groove or LLA bands.

[btroj]

Each rifle has a different throat dimension. My 336 requires me to trim the cases shorter so I can use the crimp groove and not jam into the lands. I doubt that the small difference in OAL makes a significant difference in pressure or max loads. I am talking about .015 inches here.
Also, are you using a Lee RD mould from Ranch Dog or the NOE version? I found the NOE to have a very slightly different nose profile that required a shorter OAL to keep out of the lands. Again, each mould and rifle is unique.
I would take a case, loosely seat a bullet and close the action. If it won't close or engraves then seat the bullet deeper by 5 or so thou at a time. Keep going until the action closes easily. This is your max OAL for that bullet in thar rifle. now trim your cases so the end of the case mouth lines up with the crimp groove. This is all there is to it. Your ammo will be right for tour gun even though the cases may be shorter than the book trim to length. This is called fitting the ammo to YOUR gun and is why we reload in the first place.

This will make your gun and fingers much happier. Nothing worse than a hard to close lever action.

Brad

[Jech]

It's a new Lee mould with RanchDog's new option for 3x plain (flat) base cavities.

When you say loosely seat a bullet, how would you recommend I do that? I'm operating with all Lee products unless otherwise noted: Classic 4-Hole Turret Press, Deluxe Rifle 3 Die Set (collet neck sizer, full length sizer, seater), Rifle FCD, Universal Cast Bullet Expander, 22-30cal Powder Flow-through Die, RCBS chamfer/deburr tool.

[btroj]

I suppose I worded it poorly. You could seat a bullet normally but do not crimp. This way you can seat the bullet deeper as you go.
I think you will find that a small amount of extra case trimming will take care of your problem.

Brad

[Jech]

Done a little more sleuthing and have more to report...a short disclaimer first stating that this is my first rifle so I'm very early in the learning process. Secondly, I am analytical to a fault and will find problems where none exist. If all these observations are truly insignificant, just tell me to hush and I'll go about my business :P

So, after straining through my bifocals for a while, I've noticed that my mould block halves slightly misaligned. Assume you're looking down the rotational axis of the unsized bullet and that the bullet is oriented as such that the seam from the block halves is running from 12 to 6 o'clock. Mic'ing 11 to 5 o'clock is a narrow .3127", 1 to 7 o'clock is a fat .3156" and finally 3 to 9 o'clock is a most desirable .3129". Sizing obviously handles the out-of-round diameter but what happens is the fat portion of the untouched ogive hits the lands much earlier than the narrow or average point. Here are some pictures that might help show you what I'm feebly trying to describe.

Sized bullet exhibiting uneven contact points from the sizing die.
http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy207/raexis/sized.jpg

2.481" dummy with a .310" sized bullet. Right side is clearly showing the same sizing markings as image #1. This out-of-round spec causes the fatter side of the bullet to run further out before the ogive curve begins. The left side with the narrower diameter measurement has an ogive curve that begins earlier, lessening the contact with the rifling.
http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy207/raexis/contact.jpg

2.436" dummy with a .310" sized bullet. Same test as image #2 but with a fresh bullet and shorter OAL. Right/left analysis shows delicate rifling engagement which caused the last ~1/4" of lever travel to be difficult versus the other side which never touched the rifling.
http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy207/raexis/shorter.jpg

Is any of this really worth worrying about? My wife says I need to stop being so nit-picky about and just start blasting them into the already lol

[btroj]

I would seat just a hair shorter than the last ones in your photos. Nice photos too. You want the action to closes easily. As for the ogive hitting the rifling sooner on one side of the rifling than the other, the rifle will let you know if it is a problem. I have no idea. Logic says it may be a problem as it could cause the bullet to not enter the rifling square to the bore making it wobble. On the other hand with the tapered nose and long full diameter body on that bullet it should center itself pretty well. You may find it shoots well at some velocities but not others. I would assume that the plain bases will be shot at lower velocities anyway, maybe up to 1500 fps or so?

Seat them a hair deeper and go to the range. Once you have ammo that fits your gun it is time for testing. Try some loads out and see if they me your requirements. I have no doubt that they will be good enough to plink with. If you want tiny 100 yard groups it will take some work even with good bullets.

Lets us know how things work out. That is a wonderful bullet design for you rifle. I think you will be pretty happy with it.

Brsd

[NHlever]

That is a pretty noticable offset. Is there a noticable step on the boolit nose too? I expect that you never will get the best accuracy that your rifle is capable of using that mold, but it is sure worth a try. It may shoot those boolits just fine. A good throat in the rifle would help align things, but I have run into several Marlins that have little, or no throat. They still shoot cast very well though I have to trim cases when using some boolits as others have mentioned.

[pls1911]

Follow btroj's suggestions... every inout has been right on, including the differences in chabers and differences in Lee/RD and NOE molds.
My NOE casts beatifully, and requires deeper seating, though nowhere near as deep ad the RCBS 180FN.
For all my marlins, early pre-micro groove handles a longer OAL then newer MG throats.My OAL is the shortest among all my guns, so one loading is interchangeable for all guns. I seat the checks and size through a .312 die which actually sizes about 1/16 to 1/8 inch forward of the crimp groove. I seat to cover the sized portion depth, and crimp firmly using a taper crimp die. Coincidentally this length just kisses the shortest throat, and isn't too short to shoot very nicely in the rest of the guns too.
This should work with the RD/Lee bullet as well.

[Ranch Dog]

I sent Jech a new mold. I think two different molds where put together. In other words, I don't think the mold halves where cut together.

[btroj]

Man, that is customer service Michael. You are a true gentleman.

Brad

[Jech]

Man, that is customer service Michael. You are a true gentleman.

Brad

My thoughts exactly btroj! There has been a lot of work and correspondence outside of this thread, all of which has only supported the stellar reputation I've read about here on CastBoolits and MarlinOwners.

As Ranch Dog has helped me develop a good load, I've come up with something that many shooters would call "good enough" for cast boolits. At about 3 moa, I wouldn't hesitate to hunt with it at 100 yards or less. I'm really looking forward to posting moa/sub-moa pictures when the new mould arrives =D

To put it eBayer terms, A++++++++++++ would buy again, great communication amazingly fast shipping!