Fact or fiction?

[Jim]

By now, most of us have heard somebody say it's possible to fire a .45 Colt round in a .410 shotgun. I don't believe it, but I've never tried, either.
Have you ever done it or actually seen it done?

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Glad I don't have a 410 . . . so I don't have to say "Not in mine, Try it in your own gun"

That's quite a bit of swagging . . . hope it doesn't have a full choke either, not saying the boolit wouldn't come out, but repeatedly doing that could not do good things to a gun!

[scb]

I try to stay away from idiots with guns. The T/C is actually the ether way around. Shooting a 410 out of a 45. A 410 bore is .410. you would be swagging a .452 Dia. bullet down .042 and that's not taking the choke into account.

[Johnch]

In my younger and dumber days
I did it a lot through a old Winchester single shot

I quit after I blew the bead off the barrel

I am not always sure how I survived those years

John

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

The judge has most people thinking that the 45 and 410 are interchangeable . . .

[Bullshop]

In my Bond Arms O/U derringer I shoot 45 colt, 454 casull, 460s&w and 3" 410.

[Olevern]

Shooting a 45 colt thru a regular 410 shotgun is Definately not a safe practice.

[frankenfab]

In my Bond Arms O/U derringer I shoot 45 colt, 454 casull, 460s&w and 3" 410.

You're a bad man. I had a .357 Max barrel for mine, and it was all I wanted.

[Rocky Raab]

You can chamber a 45 Colt in a .410 shotgun, and it will fire. From there on, all bets are off.

It's a bit like asking, "Can I jump off a 20-story building?" Yes, you can. But that does NOT mean you can do it and live.

[rmcc]

I remember when I was a kid, a neighbor had a break open single shot and the barrel was marked "44XL". He fired 44 specials and 410 shells through it. He passed away before he tried a 44 Mag in it!! Hadn't thought about it for years until your post here. One thing led to another and I found an article on that very gun and ammunition for it, the RIGHT ammo that is. Here is the link:

http://www.fourten.org.uk/mwpre410.html

It is an interesting read.

[buck1]

In my Bond Arms O/U derringer I shoot 45 colt, 454 casull, 460s&w and 3" 410.

After you shoot the 454 and 460, How long does it take to find the gun? [smilie=1:

[Bad Water Bill]

After Dan fires the 454 in that little gun the bigger question is how long till the tingling stops in his hand and arm?

As far as finding the gun goes wellll you gotta wait till June or July and the snow bank melts:)

[Bullshop]

Oh did I forget to mention the last time I shot it it was about three months before the split thumb nail and all the black grew out.
That was with 454 cases loaded with 400gn boolits.
I think Sir Edmond Hillary would have understood the why.

[MtGun44]

Find the gun? I'm thinking you have to go and get it surgically removed from your
forehead!

Bill

[Lloyd Smale]

ive done it with mild 44 speciials and 4440s. As a matter of fact my father told me back when he was a kid and was very poor that was his deer rifle a 410 single shot using 4440s. I wouldnt shot anything over factory level ammo though. the factory 44 specials and 4440s are very mild in pressure. Sounds like a pop gun going off. I even shot some at 25 yards to see how it would group and it suprised me with a 2 inch group. Brass wasnt reloadable though as it swelled to much in the chamber. I would guess that the fact the brass swelled so much that when fired it opens up and because of all the room the pressure level goes way down.

[oldhickory]

Before this "Judge" thing came out, I would have never even wondered about a .45 Colt through a .410 bore shotgun. When growing-up, I was told by my elders who lived through The Great Depression that they would shoot .44WCF through the .410 bore guns. I ask, "Why? There's a Winchester 1892 .44WCF in the gun rack."

The answer I got from my grandfather was, "Your mom carried the Winchester after July 4th, (that's when deer "season" opened on the farm) and your aunt, "Babe" carried the .410 so they could share ammunition. They weren't to hunt with my "95", (1895 Winchester .30-GOV'T-06) and buckshot for the "12" was too rare in those days."

Apparently using .44WCF in a .410 was normal during hard times, but I've never heard of anyone using .45 Colt in a .410-and grand-dad had a .45 Colt New Service, (mine now:mrgreen:).

[mroliver77]

I remember my brother in law being very excited when the Judge came out. He wanted one for his wife. (ya right) He showed me a picture of it and my first reaction was " whoa, That's ugly!" Then he told me you could fire .45 Colt or .410 through it. My reaction was " Why?" He then proceeded to tell me you could shoot .410 with multiple balls loaded in it. " Um, so can the .45 C and it will shoot the right size balls." It is hard to discourage someone with stars in their eyes.
I try to not poo poo anybodies taste in guns but I still cannot warm up to this monster.
Jay

[Bullshop]

The real reason I was developing the extra stout loads for the Bond was for a tent gun.
When I set up my fire wood camp in late spring I sleep in a small back pack type tent.
There are plenty of big bears in the area and I find fresh tracks all about my camp. The tracks are as wide as my stretched out hand so you know these are big bears.
The idea of a tent gun is that if a bear gets on you while your in the tent its hard to maneuver any gun but a very short one you may be able to poke it into the bear somewhere and get a saving shot. For that shot I want total penetration no matter what. A hard 400gn boolit at about 1000 fps will do that. Yes shooting it will bloody up your hand and split your nail but it seems to me the trade off is acceptable.
The 460S&W I got those for use with the multi ball loads for other varmints.
So least you think it is total madness there is good reason. Anyone want to test some ammo for me?

[rmcc]

Bullshop,

You are way MORE of a man than I will ever be..... I want to visit Alaska, but with my 375 H&H!!! Your logic makes sense, if you don't run out of fingers, hence, your offer for test fire, LOL.

Rich

[canyon-ghost]

I agree with mroliver, those are some ugly guns! I have a TC in 45 Colt/410 that I use strictly for rattlesnakes on the shooting range. I don't shoot 45 in it though, if I did, I'd go buy a 45 colt.

Recoil from it is stout enough, choked, that I only use it when I need too. They are prettier though.

[geargnasher]

Most .410 shotguns are full-choke, I have a Winchester single-shot right here beside me hanging on the wall, just tried the nose of a Lee 452-255-RF in the muzzle, it won't make it half way up the ogive to the crimp groove. Does that answer the question?

Daniel, what's your take on Bear Mace? I assume if you thought it would suit your purposes you'd rely on it instead of a gun for close-quarters use, but I don't know. Just curious as to your thoughts on this.

Gear

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Mace up close, inside of a tent, gonna be bad for you . . . with a gun you just gotta burry it in the fur, and pull the trigger, in the middle of the night, with a bear in the tent on top of you . . . gonna be hard to find the bears eyes . . .

I think what we have seen in this thread is in a 45 cal you can shoot a 410, (providing the chamber is long enough, shooting a 44 cal (really a 43 cal) through a 410 has been done, but I can't see it as being good.

I saw one of those judge rifles yesterday . . . UGLY!

[BruceB]

"Tent gun"....yep, I hear that!

When doing mineral exploration in the Northwest Territories, we'd take a rifle out of camp and cache it to be picked-up on the way back into camp in the evening. It beat carrying it all day, except in polar bear country..... there, we hauled the rifle with us ALL day, and were glad to have it.

My wife and I flew our freighter canoe up into the Barren Lands one time for a few days' trout fishing. We arranged the loan of a "tent-frame" on MacKay Lake...a skeletal structure of 2x4s which is covered by a tight-fitting canvas tent.

The first day, we saw Barren Ground grizzlies numerous times while trolling. It came on to storm at sundown, and the tent-frame was bouncing so badly in the wind that the rather frail door wouldn't stay latched. Every time it blasted open during that long dark night, I figured it was a griz coming to visit and bolted upright with the cocked .44 in hand (429244 and a LARGE serving of 2400). The Old Model Super Blackhawk had ALL SIX chambers loaded, and was very handy to my bag.....not much sleep that night.

I have great confidence in the penetration of heavy cast handgun bullets, having driven those same 429244scompletely through moose and bison. They will make any bear in creation very sick indeed....it still requires good placement, though. HOWEVER, if I had a bear on top of the canvas, and me under it with the gun, I'd fire into any portion of his anatomy that was available, and hope for the best...what else could one do?????

[PatMarlin]

That bear thing has been on my mind, as my wife and I want to start doing some tent camping in the outback via Rokon transportation in the coming years.

Would it be a benefit to have a big dog in the tent?

Snoop?

Dad's definitely got to be kidding right?...
http://www.patmarlins.com/snooper.jpg

[JRMTactical]

Bears?? Here in Arkansas we don't use guns....we just grin 'em down! :grin: However, some families only have one qualified 'grinner' in the household.......it's a teeth issue (as in full set of) :holysheep

What would I be if I couldn't make fun of my own state a little??:smile::rolleyes:

As for those Judge pistols, they remind me of some kind of movie prop...they're hard to get..I have customer's always asking about them but I never have a distributor that can keep them in stock for any length of time.

[PatMarlin]

?.....:Fire:

http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=920

[JRMTactical]

http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg336/jrmtactical/871fba80.jpg

For those nighttime encounters....

[waksupi]

Pat, dogs can be a benefit, and a hazard. If puppy is tough, he'll at least make enough noise for you to know you have company. If he's kinda "shy", he may bump into a bear, and lead him right back to you at high speed.
I was camped up on Coal Creek one elk season along with some friends. We went to the adjoining ranch to have dinner with friends.
When we came back, the corner of my tent was shredded, and stuff strewn all over inside. There was bear hair, and blood every where.
My Chesapeake, a blue heeler, and a German Shepard had been left to guard the camp, and they more or less did. Not one of them had a mark on them from the bear.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

[smilie=s:

[9.3X62AL]

Snoop is looking pretty healthy and grown up, Pat. He sure was a cute pup.

[Jim]

Since this thread has mutated to Taurus Judges, I do have one of the older .410X2.5 in 4 inch. The only time I carry anything in it other than .45 Colt loads is in the summer and out in the woods when I might encounter Mr. Crawly. And then, there's only two rounds of shot in it. Outside of those conditions, it's loaded with .45 Colt ammo.
As for it's appearance, I bought it for a utility gun, not for show & tell.

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=waksupi " If he's kinda "shy", he may bump into a bear, and lead him right back to you at high speed."


Waksupi is RIGHT! The closest shooting scrape of my life was directly initiated by by my young Husky bitch, about six months old at the time. She was a very quiet pooch, but we'd had a bear around the camp (a slightly-fixed-up abandoned mine building) the night before so I was on the alert.

When she started barking shortly after being let out in the morning, I figured the bear was on site. Yeah, right....with the Jungle Carbine in one hand, I opened the door. The dog ran between my legs and the bear was RIGHT BEHIND her, and coming. The shooting started at maybe four feet and ended where I could touch the bear. I will swear that there were at least three .303 cases in the air before the first one hit the ground. A little incentive is a marvelous thing, dontcha know?

Funny....my knees didn't really want to hold me up for a few minutes afterward, but I did NOT need new jockeys...

[mroliver77]

Shaun, I love that picture! I think Miha should have it as the front page of his website.
Jim, I did not mean to belittle your choice of weapon. If I lived in snake country I would carry a snake charmer also.
Jay

[PatMarlin]

Snoop is looking pretty healthy and grown up, Pat. He sure was a cute pup.

Gosh darn I forgot all about that. Allen walked snoop when he was just a pup- about 25 lbs.

He's just as cute and lovable at 85lbs. now. He is a puppy all the way.

He will not run out start a fight, but he has good radar and will bark with deep authority and fight to the end by our side, inside.

Now my other outside watchdogs- look out dogs at the house are another story. They are scared of NOTHIN'. I won't be taking them on a camp. Just Snoop.

[JRMTactical]

[QUOTE=waksupi " If he's kinda "shy", he may bump into a bear, and lead him right back to you at high speed."


Waksupi is RIGHT! The closest shooting scrape of my life was directly initiated by by my young Husky bitch, about six months old at the time. She was a very quiet pooch, but we'd had a bear around the camp (a slightly-fixed-up abandoned mine building) the night before so I was on the alert.

When she started barking shortly after being let out in the morning, I figured the bear was on site. Yeah, right....with the Jungle Carbine in one hand, I opened the door. The dog ran between my legs and the bear was RIGHT BEHIND her, and coming. The shooting started at maybe four feet and ended where I could touch the bear. I will swear that there were at least three .303 cases in the air before the first one hit the ground. A little incentive is a marvelous thing, dontcha know?

Funny....my knees didn't really want to hold me up for a few minutes afterward, but I did NOT need new jockeys...

Made your butt want a chew of tobacco. The pucker factor on a situation like that almost surely guarantees no change of BVD's needed....

[waksupi]

If you're going to use that for bear, I'd get rid of those hollow points.


Yeah, I'd rather have my Alaskan, even in 44 Mag than a judge and 410 shells . . . the judge looks like a joke, good for snakes I hear for about 15 feet . . . If your gonna use a shotshell for bear it ought to start with a "1"!

I had to search all over to find a Alaskan in 44 mag, ended up having it shipped from Alaska . . . but it is all gun. Twice the price of a judge too!

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/Ruger%20Alaskan/Inyourface.jpg
[smilie=s:

[leadman]

A friend of mine had an old single shot shotgun, think it was a Stevens, that was marked 410 or 44 Spl.

[troy_mclure]

my neighbor when i was a kid(an old country feller) had a single shot .410 that the barrel was chopped off at the foregrip. he regularly shot .45lc out of it(for poaching deer i think).

[Southern Son]

:mrgreen:PatMarlin, That dog don't look happy about whatever you just told him. Great photo.

[PatMarlin]

Snoop has got a dozen looks and expressions. He should be a model dog... :mrgreen: I wish I could get everyone on camera. Hard to take pics of fast moving dogs.

http://www.patmarlins.com/snoopdroop.jpg

[KCSO]

The choke on a 410 shotgun measures just about 397 for the typical full choke. A 45 Colt bullet is 452 minimum. You will be swadging that bullet from 452 to 397 with 11,000 psi right in front of your face. Yes it CAN be done, it CANNOT be done safely and I would never do it in a gun I was interested in keeping.

The reason it works the other way around, 45-70 or 45 Colt with a 410 in the chamber is that the 410 wad actually expands and seals pretty well in a 452 bore. Somewhere in the shop I have a barrel that a fellow fired a 44 magnum in a 410 shotgun because he heard it could be done. If you don't mind making a bananna peel imitation of the front of your H and R siongle barrel it can be done.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

.......

[luvtn]

I had a know it all buddy who claims you can shoot .41 mags out of a .410 shotgun. Neither of us had a .410 or a .41 magnum. He couldn't have used my gun!
lt

[Southern Son]

A friend of mine that was a copper in New Zealand told me about a bad guy over there that would load a .303 round into a .410 shotgun and then press the barrel right hard up against the victim to shoot them. Dont know if I would bother to try it, or of the rounds would even fit.

[siamese4570]

A friend of my Dad's, who has long since passed away told me a story about this. He was a kid growing up during the depression and one of his friends came up with a 45 long colt round and one of them had a .410 single shot. They had evidentally heard the same story so they decided to try it. They were in a second story bedroom and opened the window and poked the barrel of the .410 out the window. It was sorta pointed at a big dog three houses away in a neighbors yard. They pulled the trigger and in his words, "that dog hit the ground, dead as a mackeral". Probably the most un-lucky dog on the planet that day. When they saw this, they stashed the gun and went outside and played ball the rest of the day and tried not to look guilty. This guy was a real character. I really enjoyed hunting and fishing with him.

siamese4570