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linotype
03-05-2011, 04:14 PM
While shopping at Dick's for lead egg sinkers to slug my rifle bores, noticed some interesting looking "slip sinkers" that are bullet shaped.
Brought home three different sizes (and the egg sinkers) to mike.
One of the slip sinkers seems promising.
"Water Gremlin Low Profile Slip Sinkers PSL-3 1/4 size 11 per bag"
Cone shaped
.180 at nose as it rounds out
.300 about mid-section
.330 wide end with .100 deep cup base.
Thinking about lubing and driving one of these, from the muzzle, nose first with 1/4" rod to slug the bore on my MN91/30, Mauser 24/47, and an old barrelled Mauser action 308 Winchester. I expect the 1/4" drive rod will help the cupped soft lead fill out the bore for full mike measure.

Any thoughts, "red flag warnings" or experiences?

303Guy
03-05-2011, 04:38 PM
I'd suggest pushing it through from the breech end. If its and old barrel you might want to push it into the bore a short distance and then back out as the breech end might be larger than the muzzle end (that's a good thing). You might even push one partially into the bore so as to get a measure of the throat as well.

linotype
03-05-2011, 07:02 PM
I'd suggest pushing it through from the breech end. If its and old barrel you might want to push it into the bore a short distance and then back out as the breech end might be larger than the muzzle end (that's a good thing). You might even push one partially into the bore so as to get a measure of the throat as well.

Interesting. I'm not fully versed on cartridge barrels, but more toward muzzleloaders.
So, I assume there is, or may be, a "taper" from breech to muzzle?
I know about throats after the chamber, and just though that the barrel was straight bored to muzzle. I can see how a slight taper would work the bullet as a gas seal.

Neat!

44magLeo
03-05-2011, 07:36 PM
Just be sure they are lead sinkers. I live in NY and they outlawed lead sinkers under 1/2 ounce a few years back. They may have in your state to.

303Guy
03-05-2011, 09:10 PM
... just though that the barrel was straight bored to muzzle.They are but with a lot of use with jacketeds they do wear a bit at the chamber end and also there would be some throat erosion from powder granules. I have one rifle that started out with a new barrel but after 500 rounds of cordite machine gun ammo it has a measurable taper in the bore and the breach end is smoother than toward the muzzle. There have been some taper bored barrels made.

linotype
03-05-2011, 09:58 PM
They are but with a lot of use with jacketeds they do wear a bit at the chamber end and also there would be some throat erosion from powder granules. I have one rifle that started out with a new barrel but after 500 rounds of cordite machine gun ammo it has a measurable taper in the bore and the breach end is smoother than toward the muzzle. There have been some taper bored barrels made.

Good point.

Muzzleloader barrels tend, and I say tend, to erode at the flash end more than toward the muzzle because of the black powder burn and pressure. Flintlock flash holes enlarge and need to be plug and re-drilled from the blast both ways.
I'd seen machine gun barrels throat erode and get "shot out" after a steady diet of hot rounds. I know that rifles and handguns get worn from jacketed rounds, one of the reasons I'm planning to load cast to slow the process down.

Back to your info, makes sense to check both ends of the rifling to see what I'm dealing with on these old rifles. Might also do a chamber cast to see the dimensions of chamber, throat, and start of rifling.

linotype
03-07-2011, 03:27 PM
Just be sure they are lead sinkers. I live in NY and they outlawed lead sinkers under 1/2 ounce a few years back. They may have in your state to.

Checked the sinkers. Passed the thumb nail hardness test. Weight seems about right, too.
They are soft lead.

WARD O
03-07-2011, 03:38 PM
Another way to tell something about the bore diameter consistency: Start the lead slug at the muzzle because it is a lot easier than starting it in the chamber. Using a quality rod, push the slug through with hand pressure. You will notice spots where the slug moves very easily or with difficulty. This will give you an idea where the bore is larger or tighter.

Ward

linotype
03-07-2011, 03:40 PM
Gave it a try yesterday.
Ran an oil patch through the bore of the 91/30. Had a soft cloth at the chamber end to catch the slug.
Lubed up sinker. Put the pointed end in first, and started it with a rawhide hammer.
(It was handy to have the slippery lubed up sinker staying in place with the point down.)
There was a lead ring that cut off as the sinker went all the way into the bore.
Noticed that the rod expanded out the cupped base on the sinker as it drove the sinker in.

Carefully washed off the lube and miked it out to .303 and .314.

So, can I assume that Lyman 311XXX and Lee 312 cast bullets will, or should, shoot well in this rifle?
Lube and shoot as cast with scrap lead/WW/hard lead?
Any special sizing for these?

linotype
03-07-2011, 03:45 PM
Another way to tell something about the bore diameter consistency: Start the lead slug at the muzzle because it is a lot easier than starting it in the chamber. Using a quality rod, push the slug through with hand pressure. You will notice spots where the slug moves very easily or with difficulty. This will give you an idea where the bore is larger or tighter.

Ward

OK. I gave it "taps" rather than hammering away on it. It was tight at the muzzle and tended to loosen up toward the chamber. It was not quite loose enough to hand push and not enough to force. Not "hand fit" but more "press fit."

Calehedron
03-07-2011, 03:57 PM
You would be better off getting the 314299 Lyman mould for that barrel. I tried the 311 in my 1909 Mauser and it just didnt like it. Slugged the barrel and found I was at .314 and moved up to the 314299 and now I am in on the NOE group buy that is for a 311, 314, and 316 299 mould.

BABore
03-07-2011, 04:08 PM
Gave it a try yesterday.
Ran an oil patch through the bore of the 91/30. Had a soft cloth at the chamber end to catch the slug.
Lubed up sinker. Put the pointed end in first, and started it with a rawhide hammer.
(It was handy to have the slippery lubed up sinker staying in place with the point down.)
There was a lead ring that cut off as the sinker went all the way into the bore.
Noticed that the rod expanded out the cupped base on the sinker as it drove the sinker in.

Carefully washed off the lube and miked it out to .303 and .314.

So, can I assume that Lyman 311XXX and Lee 312 cast bullets will, or should, shoot well in this rifle?
Lube and shoot as cast with scrap lead/WW/hard lead?
Any special sizing for these?

This is a Mosin correct? If it slugged at 0.314, your going to want to get a mold that drops at that +. 0.311 or 0.312 will be too small. Another method that helps accuracy in these loose Mil-Surps is to size to what will fit the throat. Then you also need to see how big your case neck ID is from a full powered fired case. Basically, use the biggest boolit that will safely chamber without forcing things. The bbl will size the boolit down for you.

For a muzzleloader analogy: What would you get on your 50 cal ML if you loaded a conical down the bore and the the breech end was reamed out to 0.600 for about 4 inches? The powder and boolit were setting in this reamed out area and had make the high pressure jump forward and try to hit the rifling squarely?

linotype
03-07-2011, 04:09 PM
You would be better off getting the 314299 Lyman mould for that barrel. I tried the 311 in my 1909 Mauser and it just didnt like it. Slugged the barrel and found I was at .314 and moved up to the 314299 and now I am in on the NOE group buy that is for a 311, 314, and 316 299 mould.

That's good to know before I spend a lot of money on 311 moulds.
You say the 09 Mauser didn't like the 311. How was that? Poor groups?

May seem like a silly question, but do the 312's work better than 311's in a 314 barrel?
Since I'm new to casting for Milsurp, I'd like to understand all that I can about cast size and bore size.

Since the barrel measure 314, then a 314 cast is not getting too "tight"?

linotype
03-07-2011, 04:16 PM
This is a Mosin correct? If it slugged at 0.314, your going to want to get a mold that drops at that +. 0.311 or 0.312 will be too small. Another method that helps accuracy in these loose Mil-Surps is to size to what will fit the throat. Then you also need to see how big your case neck ID is from a full powered fired case. Basically, use the biggest boolit that will safely chamber without forcing things. The bbl will size the boolit down for you.

For a muzzleloader analogy: What would you get on your 50 cal ML if you loaded a conical down the bore and the the breech end was reamed out to 0.600 for about 4 inches? The powder and boolit were setting in this reamed out area and had make the high pressure jump forward and try to hit the rifling squarely?

Yes, this is a Mosin. Then a 314 is a better choice.
Still learning how big is too big.
Got the picture in my mind about the ML. Cartridge loading is starting to make more sense.

Calehedron
03-07-2011, 06:13 PM
That's good to know before I spend a lot of money on 311 moulds.
You say the 09 Mauser didn't like the 311. How was that? Poor groups?

May seem like a silly question, but do the 312's work better than 311's in a 314 barrel?
Since I'm new to casting for Milsurp, I'd like to understand all that I can about cast size and bore size.

Since the barrel measure 314, then a 314 cast is not getting too "tight"?

Yes, the groups were all over the place. I shot factory 30-06 ammo for years as a teen and young adult before I began casting. I was lucky to hit a paper plate at 150 yards. Now I can generally hit what I want with a 314 size bullet. I am ordering one of the 316 moulds now and I will see if it works even better sized to .315 or .316 once I check a fire formed case.