small bore muzzleloaders?

[troy_mclure]

what kind of small bore muzzleloaders are out there?

like .30 and below.

[Nobade]

Well, Ed Rayl makes 25 caliber barrels for firing balls. But you'll have to build the rest of the rifle. I don't know of any factory made muzzle loaders smaller than 30. 32 caliber ball guns are available, but smaller is rare. Any small caliber bullet firing guns would be a custom proposition as far as I know.

[Fredx10sen]

I believe Navy arms makes a 22 cal cap and ball revolver. ;-)

[Nobade]

North American Arms.

[northmn]

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii425/Davidpeck16/Poor%20Boy/001.jpg
http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii425/Davidpeck16/Poor%20Boy/009.jpg
25 cal made out of a Rayl barrel. Bottom picture shows it up against a similar blank like I used to cut it out of. you can also get a Crocket model in 32 and a Shenadoah in 36 from Traditions arms. A few others used to be made on the used market. Dixie Gum Works may have a few listed. 32's and my 25 can shoot buckshot.

DP

[barefooter175]

Small diameter barrels foul very quickly. I can't get three shots from my .32 before it becomes a bear to reload.

James

[DIRT Farmer]

Small bore barrels use porportnaly more powder per shot, at least in my rifles. I load 30 grains of fffg in my 32 flinter. Figure the load to a fifty and you would have a real thumper and set the grass on fire down range. I wipe after every shot for max acceracy, as a head shot on a squrriel is a small target. A note on wiping, this gun is fussy and I use a spit patch to wipe with in the field and chew it as dry as I can get it.

[Nobade]

Fouling is an issue with guns firing bullets, but patched balls are another matter. If the ball/patch combo fits right you should be able to shoot all day without wiping, since each time you seat a new ball it wipes the bore. I have three 32's, two Dixie squirrel rifles and a TC Cherokee and all of them can shoot as long as you like without wiping. Charges are 26gr. in the Dixie rifles and 30gr. in the TC, all FFFg.

The Dixie rifles have tight bores - they need .310" balls. But the TC is bigger and can use buckshot, so it gets shot the most. I like not having to cast those little buggers! Oh, another tip - the Brownells twill cleaning patches come in 3/4 inch diameter, and are perfect for shooting patches in the 32s. $7 for 1000 patches is a pretty good deal I believe. Only the twill ones work, the others are too soft and wimpy. The bigger ones work well in my 45s and 50s as well.

[mooman76]

I have issues when shooting with BB in my 32. Accuracy falls off after just a few shots if I don't swab. I don't have that problem with other lubes or with other larger calibers. I shoot a 310 ball in mine and it is fairly tight going in which I find is inherant of the small calibers. Just an inconvieniance, not really that bad.

[Fredx10sen]

North American Arms.

Ya that was what I was thinking but the hands typed something else. :groner:

[northmn]

The small ones seem to foul a little quicker. I found in my 25 that Grafs 3f left a softer fouling than GOEX. Little less whomp with the same charge but plenty for its use. I use mine almost totally in the woods and use Bore Butter as I bought a tube of the stuff a while back. I also carry a few cleaning patches to swab with if needed. Really rarely shoot that much in the woods any more and can load a few times without wiping, depending on the humnidity. For those that hate casting, the round ball can either be purchased in buckshot, like I do for the 25 or fairly cheap in swaged. I would not cast for the $25 per five pounds of buckshot I have, considering how many ball are in 5lbs. Not worth buyin gthe mold for that. I guess Hornady is going to quit making 0 buck which is handy for a 32.

DP

[Hanshi]

I've never found small bores to foul any quicker or any worse than large bores. With my .32 Crockett and .36 SMR I normally shoot all afternoon without wiping the bores; and accuracy stays fine. I use Hoppes #9 Plus BP Lube which doesn't allow fouling to build up. In my experience all grease lubes make the fouling "gummy" and the bore impossible to load after two or three shots. In both these rifles I've settled on 30 grains of Goex 3f as an accuracy load. I cast all my ammo.

[StrawHat]

I have a couple of smaller bores, one is a 32 flintlock I put together back in the 70's. Fouling is not too bad. The one that fouls a lot is the 22 underhammer! You practically have to swab will the ball is running out the barrel! I made it up as a joke but found I liked it. But not enough to make a second one! I know Cecil Brooks made at least one 25 caliber, a beautiful one for his Wife.

[Hanshi]

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt74/hanshi_photo/PICT0433.jpg
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt74/hanshi_photo/PICT0388.jpg
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt74/hanshi_photo/PICT0377.jpg

Small bores: Top- .32 Crockett, Mid-.40 Lancaster, Bottom-.36 SMR. None of these has a fouling problem worse than the big bores. The .32 Crockett is just a lot of fun to shoot though retired from hunting. The .40 is a very nice all around rifle and has accompanied me in the deer woods, squirrel woods and rondy woods walks matches. The .36 SMR is my favorite sg rifle and gets shot a lot at the range. No cleaning needed until I get home.

[northmn]

I use grease/wax type lubes for hunting loads where the rifle might be carried loaded for a while. As they get smaller they do tend to foul more. My 32's were not as bad as my little 25. The 25 is still usable with the Bore Butter and some recommenTracks Mink Oil as a better lube. Due to the fact that I am somewhat cheap, I tend to use what is handier like Crisco. Running a couple of swabs through the bore out in the brush if I get that much shooting is not all that much of a problem for me. Nice to relax a bit after the shot. I carry wet swabs in a PC plastic bag for that purpose. On the range, use of the liquid lubes works much better.
The little 25 seems to have as much punch as a 22LR HP on squirrels at the ranges I can hit them so works fine for me.
Sometime this year I am going to start building a half stock percussion 33. it is a custom barrel the maker calls a 33 so it can take larger buckshot and has a 1-32 twist or very close to that. I am hoping it will be more accurate with the lighter loads like about 15 or 20 grains. A 25 grain load out of a 32 in a longer barrel is pretty sudden on small game. About like a 22 mag HP.

DP

[troy_mclure]

got a link or info on that 33 northmn?

[wgr]

i shoot a .36 and dont have to much problem with patch round ball and 35/40 grains3f

[northmn]

The individual that built my barrel was Scott Pickett: Scott.Pickett@comcast.net. Been about a year since I had it made but that is the contact.

DP

[NickSS]

I have a 32 Traditions Crocket rifle for a number of years now and have never had a problem with it fouling even when firing up to 50 rounds in a day. I use sliva on my patches and shoot all day. The only time I use something else is if the rifle will be loaded all day then I usually soak the patches in somthing like Crisco and squeeze out the excess before they dry. Most of my shooting is at Black powder rendevous so leaving a round in the bore for a length of time is not a question. By the way my normal patch lube is as cheap as I can find.

[WadePatton]

All the guys i tend to believe say that the proper PRB combo eliminates any need for wiping between shots all day long. any caliber. I have a 30 and a 32 waiting to be made into rifles. 32 from Colerain via Stonewall Creek, 30 directly from Charles Burton-who also makes 38, 44, 47, and 52 calibers for those who are driven to be different.

[Rattus58]

what kind of small bore muzzleloaders are out there?

like .30 and below.Geee... and here I was thinking my .40's were teeeny... :grin:

[Reverend Al]

The one that fouls a lot is the 22 underhammer! You practically have to swab will the ball is running out the barrel! I made it up as a joke but found I liked it.

Funny you mention that! About 40 years ago when I was shooting BP almost exclusively a friend of ours built a little project gun as a "joke" too. He took a single shot bolt action .22 rimfire rifle, modified the stock to a traditional looking BP brass triggerguard and brass buttplate, added a "key" to the forend (just for looks) and used to shoot it by seating a .22 round ball (lead air rifle shot) in the front of the chamber and follow it up with a primed .22 LR case filled with 3F BP. It definitely made for an inexpensive "novelty" project gun and it actually didn't shoot too badly either!

[shadz]

I have a .32 TC cherokee never had a issue with fouling i use 10gr FFFg with a .315 patched ball or 20gr FFFg with a maxi its cheap to shoot Quiet in the woods and kills very well ... it all i use on squirrels any more as i got bored with useing a .22 lr My next step will be a custom flinter in .32 to make it more of a challange :)

[Hanshi]

When I hunt the first load of the day is lubed with Natural Lube 1000. This way if I don't fire a shot the rifle can stay loaded as long as needed. If a shot IS fired then the rifle has to be cleaned as usual. Doing this allows the use of Hoppes, or spit, so no fouling buildup and the gun has to be cleaned anyway.

[Col4570]

I have a 8mm barrel 1turn in 14",do you think this would be suitable for patched Ball.

[roverboy]

I have a 8mm barrel 1turn in 14",do you think this would be suitable for patched Ball.

Well, a 8mm bore is supposed to measure .323, so that's about right for a .32 bore. A .310 or .315 ball and patch would probably fit good. It could make a good .32 barrel.

[Squeeze]

I have a 8mm barrel 1turn in 14",do you think this would be suitable for patched Ball.
.32 cal, but WAY too fast twist. Cant say weather or not it would be a shooter, may just end up to be a decent squirreler, but you would have to keep the loads to the bare minimum, maybe 10-15 grns powder. never heard of a .32 with anything faster than a cherokee 1-30 twist

[Col4570]

Thanks Guys,Will go ahead and build then try Patched ball and conical Bullets.
Regards.

[Rattus58]

.32 cal, but WAY too fast twist. Cant say weather or not it would be a shooter, may just end up to be a decent squirreler, but you would have to keep the loads to the bare minimum, maybe 10-15 grns powder. never heard of a .32 with anything faster than a cherokee 1-30 twist

Not the most authoritative but using a greenhill type formula...

=<1800 fps
120
Diameter 0.323
Bullet Weight 50
Bullet Length 0.323
Twist Rate 38.76
Sectional Density 0.068464733

=<2800 fps More than 1800 fps
150
Diameter 0.323
Bullet Weight 50
Bullet Length 0.323
Twist Rate 48.45
Sectional Density 0.068464733

In any event... for other than a pistol, 1:14 is way to tight.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Greenhill means very little to a patched round ball shooter. Look a the twists that are being used successfully and 8/inch is NOT THERE !

BvT

[Rattus58]

Greenhill means very little to a patched round ball shooter. Look a the twists that are being used successfully and 8/inch is NOT THERE !

BvTReally? Then why does it work on ALL of my roundball firearms. Are you saying that a 1:38 is not appropriate for a 32 caliber? What do you mean by 8/inch anyway... 1 turn in 8 inches?

[Halfevl33]

I have a .22 pepperbox. http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/Gomezy3k/Pepperbox_zps7a498a81.jpg

I have tried the North American Arms BP bullets but still have to file them down to work. I have also tried .22 pellets but they fly all over the place when I shoot them. I know accuracy is marginal with this gun (no sights) but still would like the bullets to group somewhere decent when shot at a target 7 feet away... I need to find a bullet mould to cast round balls, probably in .21 or maybe even .20 caliber.

[skullmount]

I have a 8mm barrel 1turn in 14",do you think this would be suitable for patched Ball.

check out this thread, you will jump to page 3 ...............

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?136533-An-even-smaller-bullet-shooter/page3

[Squeeze]

I have a few .32 cal rifles, recently had an inline custom built, and the rate of twist was under some debate for a while. I did all the research I could, and asked some well versed minds about the subject, and it all sums up pretty well with a few formulas. (for roundball at least)

Ed Rayl Formula for ROT:
pi x Bore Diameter divided by .02618

So according to Rayl's formula:
3.14159 x .32 / .02618 = 38.3998(1:38 twist)

or
Cox's Formula for ROT:
pi x Bore Diameter divided by .029

According to Cox's Formula:
3.14159 x .32 / .029 = 34.6658(1:34 twist)

I ended up going with a 1-36 twist on the inline .32 and its a shooter, but ive only had it a few months and im still fine tuning it.
I also have a few cherokees with a 1-30 twist, and a CVA varminter with a 1-48. they are all shooters, but I have to give the edge to the 1-30 twist for accuracy, especially when you factor in the fact that its accurate with loads from 10 grns through and up to 30 grns powder, (probobly even a wider range, but thats what ive used so far) the 48 twist was much more fussy, it wanted loads of 24-26 grns exactly before it grouped well. so far the 1-36 twist does well with 20-25 grns, but i havent tried much other loads yet. And with most small bore shooters, this seems to be normal over any type rifle in a .32 cal.
a lot of this has to do with using it for squirreling, Loaded hot, a .32 will just about blow a squirrel in pieces. unless a head shot ( which is many times very tricky, trying to line up a good shot and get the squirrel to hold still long enough) But if it can be accurate still with a light load, a body shot may only loose ribs, or (preferably, usually) a bit of front end, spoiling much less usable meat. I would still go ahead with the build, BUT i would also have a plan B for the barrel, and prob an alternate barrel for the stock and hardware used on the build..just in case. You may just set a new precedence, or you may not...

[nanuk]

anyone ever wonder why a cartridge gun can shoot round balls accurately?

I mean, the ROT is far to fast.....

I think there are members on here who are proving that old wive's tale is not all that accurate.