9 mm bullet recommendation

[soldierbilly1]

I have mostly cured my 9 mm leading woes (Spfld XD9) by switching to the Lee 120 gr TC, that is, the grease groove bullet. The TL's were not working at all.
However, I am still getting a little leading at the end of my bore. Accuracy is good and no keyholing after 50 shots. There is, however, no "lube star," the Lee groove seems shallow. I was thinking of trying the Lyman 356242, that is, the 120 gr bullet with the two grease grooves. Can anyone recommend this guy?
(I have already slugged the bore, reduced my crimp pressure, reduced the bell, aged my bullets, all the standard stuff so to speak.)
thanks
Billy boy

[CWME]

I bought a 358242 single cav and hollow pointed it. Sized to .356 it works great in my 9s over some Red Dot. Sized to .358 it works in my 38/357 mag loads. I have been using Lyman super Moly with this one.

[MtGun44]

What lube are you using? May be able to solve it with a better lube. Quality if you
can't increase the quantity.

Bill

[HangFireW8]

What MtGun44 said. I've seen remarkable differences in marginal cast boolit loads in handguns by just switching to a different lube.

I think you're using Lithibee? The qualities of it vary depending on exactly what Lithium grease you start with. What you have my be fine for some applications (like you say, with more lube groove), but for one small lube groove, there may be better lubes.

[epj]

I have used the Lee 120 TC lubed with Carnuba Red in a variety of guns with minimal leading. Most of my leading is in the throat. I keep my velocity at around 1000-1050 fps.

[MtGun44]

I always try NRA 50-50 if there is a problem. It is the gold standard. Not that there
are not others that will work, just that it is known to perform real well over a wide range
of applications. It is always worth trying. I have also had excellent results with
LBT soft blue. I've heard much good about Speed Green from Bull Shop, too.

Bill

[soldierbilly1]

Yes, I am using Lithibee, works great for 38 spl and 45, but then, these "are easy" calibers to cast load. Another grease sounds good. I'll try the gold standard, i.e., NRA 50/50. I understand the Lyman Orange Magic may also work well too. thanks for all the help. very helpful, knowledgeable site!
Billy boy

[CWME]

I have used the Lyman Orange Magic in the .40 SW with good luck. You will need some heat to get it to flow in the sizer.

[soldierbilly1]

Do I need a heater for the NRA 50/50? can I use a hair dryer on the Lubrasizer until I get the heater? Guess I can always pan lube. If I need to experiment further, I don't want to keep dropping cash. (Part Scotch, can't help it!)
Billy boy

[NuJudge]

You do not need heat for NRA formula bullet lubricant, except if you are working in an unheated garage in the depths of a Michigan winter.

CDD

[HeavyMetal]

I think getting several "sample" sticks of lube and pan lubing some small "lots" could tell you a lot about what this boolit will like.

As others have stated if your getting a little lead at the end of the barrel the lube is done before it gets there!

I have used both blue angel and Carnuba Red in the Lee 125 RNL, and I Garontee that lube grove is smaller than the one on the Lee tc boolit, and with Carnuba Red push it to 1400 + with no leading.

Carnuba Red does need heat as does Blue Angel but a lube like Lyman moly may cure your issue and not need heat.

[timkelley]

I like Lars BAC on the Lee 120 in two different XD's. I size to .358 using a Lyman 450.

[918v]

I have used the Lee 120 TC lubed with Carnuba Red in a variety of guns with minimal leading. Most of my leading is in the throat. I keep my velocity at around 1000-1050 fps.

What alloy do you use and what gun? I'm seeing the same problem with hardcast bullets.

Do I need a softer lube that will liquify easier or a softer bullet that will obturate quicker?

[epj]

What alloy do you use and what gun? I'm seeing the same problem with hardcast bullets.

Do I need a softer lube that will liquify easier or a softer bullet that will obturate quicker?

The alloy is WCWW with a pinch of lino thrown in. The leading I experience is occassional and very minimal. It does not affect the gun's performance. Once in a while, when cleaning, I see a flake of lead. This was with my S&W 5906. My STI 9mm has a chrome lined barrel, and so far I have seen no leading at all using the same load.
I am also pushing the boolits a bit harder now and have not yet chronoed them. According to the load manual, they should be 1100+fps, but again, I haven't subjected them to the chrono. I will soon, now that warmer weather is here.

[MtGun44]

With 9mm there seems to be a LOT more variability in groove diameters and rifling depth
than in many other calibers. Maybe it is just because "everybody and his dog" have made
9mm Luger chambered guns over the years.

Many 9mms have very shallow rifling and oversized groove diameters, which works OK
for jacketed. Many folks have had to go to .357 or .358 diameter to get decent accy and
minimize leading. Also, many 9mm boolit designs are a bit on the minimal side for lube
quantity, so you need a good quality lube, typically. Some are helped by a hard enough
alloy to avoid problems with shallow rifling grip, but many are helped by a softer boolit,
probably by better obturation to fit the bore. If the boolit is big enough, hardness should
not be a big disadvantage. My personal situation is that I want to make air cooled wheel
wts work in all the guns that I can, to avoid the extra work and hassle of heat treating or
coming up with harder (and usually more difficult to find and expensive) fancy alloys.

Good boolit design, big enough diameter and a good lube will cover most of the issues in
any caliber, and definitely go a long way with the 'problem child' 9mm Luger.

Bill

[soldierbilly1]

OK, made a few changes and hit the range today with my Spfld XD9.
Unfortunately, still had some minor leading in the last 1 to 1 1/2 inch of the barrel. I used Lee 356 - 120 gr TC (w grease groove), Lyman #2, water dropped, NRA 50/50 lube, sized to 0.357, and 3.8 gr of Titegroup. BTW, the bore slugged at 0.3551.
No lube star was noted, however, saw good accuracy and no keyholing.
What does the hive recommend I do next?
thanks for all the help!
billy boy
ETA: I used very light crimp on the seater/crimper, I measured and it did not swage the bullet. I did not use the Lee FCD.

[HangFireW8]

How many boolits fired?

On problem guns, I like to run a patch through coated with the same lube before starting. Nothing too heavy, just leave a very fine film behind, and I swab out the chamber to make sure there's none in there. This seems to get things going better.

[soldierbilly1]

I shot 25 rounds total; the leading was noticed after 15 or 20 or so. Greasing the bore, lightly, would prolly help. kinda reminds me of my old black powder days! Hey, I'm willing to try anything now.

[HeavyMetal]

Any time I see lead in the last part of the barrel only I think lube failure.

Plenty of lube groove on that Lee TC your using so it's not a supply issue.

Do you have samples of other lubes? Or easy access to a shop that has several types?

Most commercial lubes are either NRA 50-50 or Javilina lube ( same as 50-50). If you want to stay soft try the Lyman black moly lube. This worked fair in the 9mm but when I went to the Carnuba Red I didn't see the need to have two or more lubes on the shelf

[soldierbilly1]

HM:
Upon further review, I did check a dummy round, and apparently the case is swaging the base of the bullet down almost one add'l thousandth...seems to be tapering the base of the bullet. Could this be a source of gas blow-by and subsequent leading? needs further investigation. M-Die needed here? dunno.
For sure, I do see your point on running "dry."
This has become a personal thing with me; I'm still on the learning curve. There is no end to the variables, I will solve this puzzle however. This newby is learning a lot.
thanks for your help!
billy boy

[chris in va]

I got really bad keyholing with anything sized around 356 for my CZ. Once I switched to a 358 RF boolit, accuracy became on-par with FMJ. I still get leading but doesn't seem to affect accuracy, even after about 200 downrange.

[MtGun44]

YES, it can. Maybe M die, may be slightly larger expander for your existing
die set or a different case brand. Are you using the dreaded Lee Factory Crimp
Die? How do you crimp? By far the best is a separate taper crimp die.

Also, monitor the leading. Does it continue to build? How hard to clean out?

If you can shoot 100 rds or more with good accy and the 'leading' cleans up
easily, maybe you should just ignore it.

Bill

[soldierbilly1]

YES, it can. Maybe M die, may be slightly larger expander for your existing
die set or a different case brand. Are you using the dreaded Lee Factory Crimp
Die? How do you crimp? By far the best is a separate taper crimp die.

Also, monitor the leading. Does it continue to build? How hard to clean out?

If you can shoot 100 rds or more with good accy and the 'leading' cleans up
easily, maybe you should just ignore it.

Bill

I put a light crimp on it using the Lee seating die. I disabled the Lee FCD. How do you recommend I crimp? what do you suggest I do? thanks
billy boy

[MtGun44]

Like I said in the first post - separate taper crimp die is best.

Accurately measure a boolit diameters and measure it down. Use a micrometer, not a
caliper which is not accurate enough for this job.

Load a round without powder, then pull the boolit and measure it again. If you are
losing much it will be necessary to fix this, whatever it takes.

What is your groove diam? What diam are you sizing to?

Bill

[soldierbilly1]

OK: my slugged barrel groove diameter is 0.3551. I am sizing to 0.357. When I make some dummies, the round sizes 0.3574 on my mike. However, after the seating/crimping process (same Lee die) it measures 0.3565. I am losing about 1 thousandth base diameter in the crimp process. (I ditched the Lee FCD die after a good search on the CB database.) This newby is still learning the ins and outs of the various handgun dies.
Whaddya think? possible Lyman M Die and Lyman taper crimp die needed here? thanks for the assistance. I do appreciate the CB knowledge base!
billy boy