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BulletFactory
03-02-2011, 06:23 PM
I've been lurking for quite some time, and have been having some issues, so I figured I'd start asking more questions. I'm having leading problems as well, but its the powder charges that I'm most concerned with. I'm loading a 165 grain round for .40 with HS-6 and wasn't sure that using jacketed data for cast rounds was a good idea. The Hodgdon site calls for 7.3 to 8.0, but I guess you can't be too careful. Thanks for your input.

Cherokee
03-02-2011, 07:14 PM
Welcome to the forum !! I don't load 40 S&W but the Hodgdon range is similar to the Lyman #49 range of 7.0 to 8.2 gr for 175 gr cast. Start low and work up - did you do that ? What kind of leading are you getting ? Light, medium, heavy, throat area, full length or near muzzle only ? Is you bullet cast soft, medium, hard ? What size ?

bobthenailer
03-02-2011, 07:21 PM
I dont have a 40 s&w but i have used HS6 in various pistol with cast bullets with no problems !
9mm,38 super, 44 mag and 454 casull . I like it so well i bought a 8 # jug a 2 years ago

BulletFactory
03-02-2011, 07:39 PM
BHN is 8.7. The leading starts an inch from the beginning of the rifling. Its a .40.

mpmarty
03-02-2011, 07:49 PM
How are the boolits lubed?

BulletFactory
03-02-2011, 07:51 PM
BAC from white label, I'm pan lubing.

dragonrider
03-02-2011, 09:28 PM
What are you sizing to??

BulletFactory
03-02-2011, 09:30 PM
.4032

geargnasher
03-02-2011, 10:01 PM
BF, do a search for loading the .40 here, it would take three limited-out posts to cover all that you need to know to shoot cast effectively in that caliber. You will likely need harder boolits than you're using, a custom expander spud, and lots of trial an error regarding seating depth. You will need to use a real lube that fills the grooves.

HS6 is one of my most successful powders in that caliber, I wouldn't go with anything faster unless you're purely loading low-velocity stuff that will barely work the slide.

You can ignore anyone who hasn't loaded for this caliber. There are things about the .40 that have to be experienced to be fully understood. You'll see!

Gear

bbs70
03-02-2011, 10:11 PM
QUOTE:
"There are things about the .40 that have to be experienced to be fully understood. You'll see!"

You got that right.

Doby45
03-02-2011, 10:18 PM
Have you measured a pulled boolit?

BulletFactory
03-02-2011, 10:27 PM
A while back, it was pointed out to me that the casings could be swaging down the bullets, and that turned out to be the case so I had a custom expander made to replace the one in the Lee factory crimp die. This solved the swaging problem, and the bullets that were measured after they were pulled had an average of .4035. At the time, I was water dropping them, and was getting a BHN of 29.9.Someone had suggested a softer alloy, and now I'm at 8.7 BHN. I thought to check the diameter of a pulled bullet just now to see if the softer alloy was being swaged down again by the case again and it was.

The pulled bullets that are at 8.7 BHN were measured in 3 places, .4008, .4011, and .4012.

The pulled bullets that are at 29.9 BHN were measured in 3 places, .4035, .4040, and 4036.

The bore slugged at .4005, .4000, and .4001

geargnasher
03-03-2011, 03:10 AM
Good. You fixed the #1 issue with cast and the .40. I don't know what your expectations are, but if you want to approach factory velocities, try water-quenching your 8.7 bhn alloy to make a nice, tough, flexible boolit in the 15 bhn arena, keep using HS6, starting at about seven grains and work up until you get where you want. I'd say you can expect 1,050 fps no problem if you do that. If you want to equal factory stuff in the same grain weight, you'll probably need water-quenched Wheel Weights in the area of 20+ bhn, and maybe even slower powder than HS6. I like a stiff charge of Blue Dot (basically a slightly compressed case full) under a 175 grain TC to get 1,120 fps before the gun and brass tells me it's close to having enough.

If you want to keep using your soft boolits, no sweat, just get some FAST powder like Bullseye or Clays and load down to about 750-800 fps, the fast powder will keep the seal (obturation of the bore which reduces gas-cutting and leading) and the low velocity will keep the soft boolit from skidding the rifling initially. You can make a good, pleasant-shooting target load with soft lead like that, just speed the powder and slow the velocity.

Gear

BulletFactory
03-03-2011, 05:28 AM
I thought the .40 liked a slow powder. I was hoping for a round with no leading and decent power, without risking another barrel, and with great accuracy.

Three44s
03-03-2011, 10:56 AM
You ought to try Clays or something close, but I'd also be wary of a quicker dwell time into the leade.

I am also a devout follower of Mr. HS-6!

Presently, I am using WSF in a 9 mm Para with lead. The rest of my HS-6 in metallics are with revolteers. I have used and liked HS in the "nine".

I have no 40 SW's.

My first observation on your lead work is that when cautioned about a BHN of 29 ...........

.......... you amounted to falling off a cliff by going to under 9 BHN .........

I suggest with casting and all reloading for that matter, that when you change something ......

............ don't go such extreme in one jump.

If your project were mine .......... I'd make a batch of air cooled WW's sweetened with about 1% tin, use the best lube I could get my hands on without a big fuss and run some more HS-6 at a published start for a lead bullet. I'd also get a minimum jug of Clays (I like it's cleanliness) and do the same .... a published start for lead in the weight of bullet you have the mold for.

See what happens.

Three 44s

Doby45
03-03-2011, 11:04 AM
I use Clays in my 40s and it does good by me. Very low smoke and accurate.

geargnasher
03-03-2011, 11:19 AM
Like I said, Clays and soft boolits will work in the .40 for low velocity stuff. My most accurate plinker load is just enough clays to work the slide, the empties make a nice little pile right beside me on the ground. For me at least, clays was cleaner than BE and made a little more velocity for the same POI, and not as spikey as Titegroup.

Gear

BulletFactory
03-03-2011, 12:58 PM
Wheel weights are unfortunately unavailable to me. I only have one source, and its only yielding a couple pounds a month. I only have about 6 pounds of it right now. The other alloy I have keeps getting air gaps and a bunch of foreign matter in it no matter how I try to clean it up. I have to cast 200 rounds if I expect to keep 75. Then I have to sit there with a pocket knife and cut the little bits of dirt out of them so that it doesn't go back into the pot. Once I can find a BHN that will work, I'll toss this stuff, and get some alloy from rotometals. I'll try to keep changing things with the HS-6 until the can runs out, then if I still have issues, I'll switch.

Doby45
03-03-2011, 01:11 PM
Just or some good isotope alloy from Muddy Creek Sam, he is in the vendor section. Can't beat $1 a pound shipped.

BulletFactory
03-03-2011, 03:19 PM
isotope alloy? what's that? *raises eyebrow*

geargnasher
03-03-2011, 04:32 PM
Go to "Sam's" page in the vendor/sponsor forum and pull up the first post, he explains it very well and posts a link to another member who's done some testing with it. I've used it and it's good stuff, and "Sam" is a truly first class citizen.

Also, The Captain sells WW and range lead for cheap, and is wonderful to do business with. There's a group buy going on for some "modified WW alloy" that Zbench runs from time to time, it's premium stuff and much cheaper than other sources for similar quality, foundry-certified boolit metal. Zbench's stuff has some arsenic deliberately added to make it heat treat better, that's one advantage it has over the isotope lead (which will still heat treat due to it's antimony content, but not as well and age-hardening takes much longer as opposed to the alloys with arsenic added as a catalyst) but it costs more than twice as much.

[edit] I just checked again an Zbench's group buy is locked in for $1.98/lb SHIPPED, that means LESS than twice the ISO lead. $135 for a 68lb flat rate box to your door. I always keep some of this stuff on hand for a couple of appications where exact alloy is necessary.

Gear

saltydog452
03-03-2011, 06:12 PM
In one of my Reloading Manuals, Speer # 8, the 'tested' loads using HS6 were
using Magnum Primers.

So far, I haven't noticed any comment here about Std or Magnum Primers. Is HS 6 that difficult to get to start burning?

I haven't ever used it.

Your comments appreciated.

Thanks,

salty

white eagle
03-03-2011, 06:17 PM
isotope alloy? what's that? *raises eyebrow*

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=86491[smilie=w:

geargnasher
03-03-2011, 06:23 PM
I don't know what Hodgdon would say, but I use standard primers for all my HS6 loads in a variety of calibers. It does burn a bit dirty if the pressures aren't up in it's happy zone, but it isn't as bad as other powders of similar burn rates at similar pressures IME.

My theory for so many magnum primer loads in the Speer book (I have and use #11 a lot) is that CCI is one of the umbrella companies and they need to come up with loads using the gamut of their products, not just standard. For example I don't use magnum rifle primers with Winchester 748 and cast boolits, but I did when I shot jacketed bullets with it. The cast didn't like the jumpstart and the powder, if used in a reasonable manner, didn't have a problem lighting.

Gear

BulletFactory
08-19-2014, 09:07 PM
Gear, it's been a long time since I have been on here. One of the experts here, I think it was you, likes to load for Kimber .45acp. This person designed a boolit for it through Accurate Molds, it was the 45-230L if I recall correctly. I have it bookmarked. Was that your design? I seem to remember this boolit with HS-6, but I don't remember the powder charge.

If this is your boolit, or if you know whose it was, I'd really like the recipe to it. Thanks.

BTW, I did get the .40 figured out. Both the XD, and the M&P, thanks again for that, it was a long process.

BulletFactory
08-19-2014, 09:07 PM
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-230L-D.png

singleshot
08-19-2014, 09:25 PM
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=86491[smilie=w:

This thread gives me an error...is it just me?

BulletFactory
08-19-2014, 10:46 PM
Me too. invalid thread?

BulletFactory
07-10-2015, 05:49 PM
I've been lurking for quite some time, and have been having some issues, so I figured I'd start asking more questions. I'm having leading problems as well, but its the powder charges that I'm most concerned with. I'm loading a 165 grain round for .40 with HS-6 and wasn't sure that using jacketed data for cast rounds was a good idea. The Hodgdon site calls for 7.3 to 8.0, but I guess you can't be too careful. Thanks for your input.

Wow, I think this was my first post here !

Anyways, the gun works now, and we've since gotten into powder coating, and it works too. Thanks again all.

paul edward
07-13-2015, 08:44 PM
The other alloy I have keeps getting air gaps and a bunch of foreign matter in it no matter how I try to clean it up. I have to cast 200 rounds if I expect to keep 75. Then I have to sit there with a pocket knife and cut the little bits of dirt out of them so that it doesn't go back into the pot.

Are you smelting in the same pot that that you use to cast from? How are you fluxing the alloy?

BulletFactory
07-14-2015, 01:02 AM
No, I dont smelt in the lead pot.

I moved the smelting area to a fire pit outside, so the process is a little different now. I'm doing the same thing, just with larger batches. And I've got a bunch of sawdust now, but I like chips better. Less wood ash to get out of the lead.

Here's the inside version.

Video 2 and 3. Here's #2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd68fSDrWQs