Sorting Brass

[ron brooks]

Here is my question, does it do any good to sort out brass by brand. By this I mean W-W from Winchester, R-P, PMC, Midway, etc. I do sort out the commerical from the G.I.

This is for 45 Colt, 45 acp and 44 Magnum.

What do the rest of you think?

Thanks,

Ron

[Hairtrigger]

I do not sort out handgun brass. I am picky about my varmint rifle brass.

[BruceB]

Well, I do sort the pistol brass by headstamp. It's a holdover from our Bullseye competition days, when I strove to eliminate every possible variable.

Besides, I like the way all-the-same headstamps look in my 100-round boxes.....

I guess this stuff is really getting to me!

[mag_01]

:coffee: ---I don't sort pistol or rifle brass--its really up to you----If your load is good and you do your part-----Some loads are easy to shoot and 45 long colt and 45 auto and 44 mag fall into that category---Trigger control is the most important part of shooting---other things are important but without trigger control results will be poor-------Mag

[krag35]

In the 44 mag, I sort by R-P for accurate plinker loads (429667X7.0 Unique) starline for heavy hunting or OMG, it's eating me loads. and all the rest for everyday normal 1200fps loads.
In 45acp I sort federal for serious loads and everthing else gets loaded with unique and 225-230gr squeeze-bang-explode fun loads.

[arkypete]

I don't sort 45 acp brass, most of which is range pick up.
45 Colt I do sort, then I trim to uniform length. Most of mine is Star.
Jim

[chunkum]

Consistancy is what is to be desired in any aspect of reloading and the brass is no exception. For plinking purposes, some sacrifices will not make a lot of difference. As distances increase and accuracy becomes more of a critical issue, consistancy in as many parameters as possible becomes more important. Sorting brass is one area in which varibility can be controled, as is trimming to a cosistant length for uniform crimp/neck-tension results. Bottom line: It depends on what kind of shooting you intend to do and what you expect of your reloads.
Best Regards,
chunkum

[ron brooks]

Thanks to all who have replied. Much appreciated.

Another question, is W-W and Winchester the same with different headstamps ?

Thanks again,

Ron

[robertbank]

I shoot a ton of .45acp and never sort the stuff. The brass shortens over time, lasts forever and I have not noticed any difference over my chrony using mixed vs sorted brass in .45acp.

I shoot some .45LC and use Starline brass all trimmed to the same length. I do sort my .38spl cases, and trim them to same length but I am not sure why. Just habit.

Take Care

Bob

[felix]

Brass is just like powder. Every lot is different! ... felix

[Bass Ackward]

Brass is just like powder. Every lot is different! ... felix


I had to think about this for a minute because I simply couldn't believe that it would be done any other way. That gives you the hint about me huh?

Yep. I agree. And I not only sort by brand but by batch as well.

[klausg]

I fall into the BruceB category, I sort everything. For 80% of my handgun shooting it's probably a waste of time, but I too like having all of the same headstamp in a box. Felix is also very correct, every lot of brass is different, though I don't think that even if I had a rifle good enough to know the difference, I could shoot well enough to see much change. to answer your question, "W-W' & 'Winchester' are the same & different. I don't sort them seperately, they all go into the Win bin.

-Klaus

[9.3X62AL]

You'll find me in the Bruce B/Klaus G camp on this question. I sort by make, and it might be a waste of time with most of my handguns......but I do it anyway.

One caliber where it ISN'T a waste of time is the 9 x 19 Parabellum. There are significant differences in dimensions and weights between the several makers' cases. I have settled on R-P as my "go-to" case for this caliber, and usually trade off or discard others.

[FISH4BUGS]

My machine guns don't care. They aren't bullseye shooters anyway. Most of my shooting is just plinking anyway.
What is important is case length more than anything in my opinion.

[robertbank]

I agree with Deputy Al when it comes to 9MM cases. For .45acp I have not seen any difference in performance. Sorting .45acp, well I haven't been retired long enough to bother.

Take Care

Bob

[ron brooks]

Felix,

I understand what you mean about how eah lot of brass is different, but when you have as much brass for pistol caliber as I do that has been either bought used or is range pickup I figure the best I can do is sort by maker.

Thanks,

Ron

[C1PNR]

I sort everything by headstamp. I guess I'm just anal about that.

I've been doing this since I first started hand loading and bought 1,000 .30 Carbine military brass for $10. I sorted them by arsenal and by date, even to the point I had 18 of this and 23 of that. Not sure why, and darned sure it didn't matter in the Carbine.

But I'm sure there is a difference in SOME loads, so I just do it for all.[smilie=1:

Just like I ream out the flash hole on brass that's new to me, whether new or range pickup.

[Hunter]

I do not sort brass in my .45 ACP for range use or IDPA but if I am going for bullseye style shooting then yes. I will sort by headstamp and weigh after trimming.

[Sven Dufva]

Consistancy is what is to be desired in any aspect of reloading and the brass is no exception. For plinking purposes, some sacrifices will not make a lot of difference. As distances increase and accuracy becomes more of a critical issue, consistancy in as many parameters as possible becomes more important. Sorting brass is one area in which varibility can be controled, as is trimming to a cosistant length for uniform crimp/neck-tension results. Bottom line: It depends on what kind of shooting you intend to do and what you expect of your reloads.
Best Regards,
chunkum

I agree with you to 100%. length/ crimp is very importent for accuracy.

[bobthenailer]

i sort all of my pistol & rifle brass by brand & if possible by lot # , i also trim all of my pistol brass for straight wall pistol that use a roll crimp . i usually use a different brand of brass for different loads ,so by just seeing what brass i have i can tell what the powder charge is, which is usefull when you use a few loads with the same bullet. for all pistol brass i have at least 4 brands for each caliber for some i have 8.

[arkypete]

I'd be willing to pay a fair amount for a semi progressive machine that would size, decap, clean primer pockets and trim to length, pistol brass. how about the rest of you?
Jim

[robertbank]

I can see trimming revolver cases to ensure a constant crimp but .45acp cases shrink with use not lengthen and don't require a roll crimp so what do you achieve by trimming other than to shorten case life?

Take Care

Bob

[9.3X62AL]

"Straightwall" handgun brass hasn't needed very much trimming, in my experience. Autopistol brass either retracts slightly--as Bob indicates--or pretty much "holds still" after an initial trimming after the first firing in revolver calibers. Even 357 and 44 Magnum cases given a healthy roll crimp and fired with WW-296 don't show a lot of lengthening. There can be some length variance in new brass, or in once-fired cases from factory loads. Once that issue is addressed, a given lot of straightwall brass hasn't needed much "case length adjustment".

The thinner hyphenated WCF cases like 32-20 and 44-40 DO lengthen out some upon firing, as have 30 Mauser/7.62 x 25 Tokarev and 30 Luger. To address Pete's question--one of the cool attributes of the Ponsness-Warren semi-progressive machine (or any other turret-type arrangement) that I use for most of my handgun ammo is the ability to remove the case from the shellholder at any point in the loading process to clean primer pockets or trim as needed. It's not an automatic or mechanized function, but there it is there. Many of the progressive systems don't allow for interruption or case removal without making a mess.

[bobthenailer]

it all depends what kind of consistant accuracy you are looking for in pistols ! my self ive allways wanted my guns to be very accurate as ive shot in various forms of pistol matches since 1975 and was allways at the top of the highest classification , high master, 4 a , ect . to Quoat , gil hebbard , get the best guns avalible, and the most accurate ammo, and the rest is on you ! bob

[bobthenailer]

it all depends what kind of consistant accuracy you are looking for in pistols ! my self ive allways wanted my guns to be very accurate as ive shot in various forms of pistol matches since 1975 and was allways at the top of the highest classification , high master, 4 a , ect . to Quoat , gil hebbard , get the best guns avalible, and the most accurate ammo, pratice pratice & more pratice and the rest is on you ! bob

[bobthenailer]

it all depends what kind of consistant accuracy you are looking for in pistols ! my self ive allways wanted my guns to be very accurate as ive shot in various forms of pistol matches since 1975 and was allways at the top of the highest classification , high master, 4 a , ect . to Quoat , gil hebbard , get the best guns avalible, and the most accurate ammo, pratice pratice & more pratice and the rest is on you ! bob

[bobthenailer]

it all depends what kind of consistant accuracy you are looking for in pistols ! my self ive allways wanted my guns to be very accurate as ive shot in various forms of pistol matches since 1975 and was allways at the top of the highest classification , high master, 4 a , ect . to Quoat , gil hebbard , get the best guns avalible, and the most accurate ammo, and the rest is on you ! bob

[Joey]

With the .45acp I only sort out the military brass, all range pick up. I have in the past was maticulis in keeping brass seperated . I find no difference in accuracy.

[BD]

I just looked at a box of my .45 acps destined for the next IDPA match. I found 15 different headstamps in a box of 50. I am sure I've never trimmed a .45 acp case. Now, my hunting, bullseye and high power brass is another story all together. I was pretty anal about the high power brass, sorted, uniformed, weighed, neck turned and kept together in boxes of fifty for it's match life, (five loadings). These days my eyes are bad enough, and the nearest matches are so far away, that High Power is a thing of the past. My WBY brass I keep together in lots of 20 and after 8 loadings I section a case each time it is reloaded. At the first sign of any issue it's history. 6.5 x 55 brass is uniformed and then neck sized only. It seems to want trimming about every 10 loadings and a trip through a body die about every 20th loading. I believe it will out last me. My .44 mag brass gets uniformed and kept in lots of fifty for three heavy loadings then it's thrown in the bucket for plinking. .38 special brass gets uniformed than doesn't seem to ever really need attention again. I think this issue all depends on the particular cartridge and what you need to get out of it.
BD

[Cayoot]

To be brutally honest, I only sort .45 acp and .357/.38 into three piles....Federal and R-P goes into one pile, Starline into another pile, and everything else goes into a third pile. This is because I'm a moon-clip nut and only Federal, R-P, and Starline are consistant in how they fit in my moon clips. The Starline is seperate because I believe that it is the highest quality brass on the domestic market and eventually I hope to have only starline. The third pile is stuff that I don't really worry about recovering and will often try to swap it to other shooters at competitions for Federal or R-P.

But that's just me, and I'm basically a pretty lazy person!:drinks:

[Biggfoot44]

If it is a factory load that I first shot, or virgin brass , I will try to keep together. For range pick ups , anything not blatently unusual is mixed together, at least in .38.

[Stray Round]

I always played it both ways with handgun calibers and still haven't made up my mind as to seeing any difference. I shoot a Marlin carbine in 357/38 alot and can't say I find any difference even with the greater accuracy potential of a rifle.

I've actually shot some of my best groups with mixed brass in handguns BUT I still feel alot better when all the case heads read the same and everything is the same lenght.

It's interesting to see all the other viewpoints.

[bglz42]

I don't sort anymore. In my PPC revolver I thought it would make a difference, so I would sit for hours and sort by headstamp. Then I tested at 50yds prone, and the accuracy (or the lack thereof!) was the same whether it was the same headstamp or not. So now, they just get dumped in and shot!:-D

[redneckdan]

I don't sort brass. I do load some of them OMG, its eatin me! loads which are always new or once fired winchester.

[lovedogs]

There can be lots of difference in different brands and different lots of brass. In some cases you can get into serious difficulties by not paying attention to your brass... as in the case of using old standard .38 Special brass vs. newer design made to +P specs.

It would depend on what calibers you are loading, how accurate you want to be, distances to be fired... lots of variables here. Just as an example, I once discovered that at real long range each FPS changed the drop by about an inch. If you are shooting unsorted brass and have a large variation in capacity it can make enough difference in velocity that your drops will be all over the place making consistent hits more difficult.

Guess it all depends on what kind of shooting you're doing and what quality you want to shoot. If you're just shooting short range and only care if it makes a loud noise then it might not matter. Me, I like to make the best quality I can make. And I like hitting what I aim at. I sort brass for everything. And I usually hit what I aim at. Maybe the two go hand-in-hand?

[robertbank]

Best info I have on +P brass is that it is identical to regular brass save and except the headstamp. Marked differently so you know what you are shooting. I keep it separate for the same reason but I am reasonable sure the cases are no different than regular marked ones.

Take Care

Bob

[lovedogs]

Permit me to quote from a letter received from Winchester...

"Enclosed, courtesy of Winchester, are two boxes of .38 Special unprimed brass. For your information, all .38 Special component brass produced since 1983, and sold as symbol U38SP, is of the .38 Special +P construction."

The letter went on with more complimentary comments but this is the part some of you may be interested in. It was signed by David D. Trowbridge of Product Management, Winchester.

[robertbank]

Call me a cynic but that sounds like marketing hype to me. I have read other quotes including an article in Handloader, where they cross sections cases and there was no visual difference in cases.

Take Care

Bob

[9.3X62AL]

Bob, I think you and Lovedogs are saying the same thing, just in different ways.

I believe that 38 Special brass used in target wadcutter ammunition differs internally to accomodate the deep-seated bullet.

[lovedogs]

Guess I just figured the manufacturer knew more about what they made than I did. Of course, some of us know more than they do. I'm just not that smart. By following the advice of industry leaders and professional people I've managed to stay out of trouble for a long time.

[georgeld]

Ron:

You sure started something here huh?

I pick up so much brass here, there, and yonder it's about all I can
keep track of to keep it sorted by caliber.
The only time it really matters and gets sorted for sure is when loading.
Then the oddballs are tossed into the correct bucket.

I do trim rifle cases each time they are fired or picked up. Then they all go into the buckets. Things are kept in: fired, processed, primed, and loaded for each. That's about it.

I load by the buckets full for several cals. Will process, trim polish, prime, and load the whole batch of each cal. OR will until sidetracked. Once that happens it might be awhile before I get back to that one to finish the batch up. But, that's the intentions.

Far as brands, colors, etc it don't matter to me. Though I have found different brands of .223's may not hold 25grs of powder. That's the only indication I've found between the brands.

Anything military is sorted by itself until the primer hole is chamfered, once that's done, it goes into the same bucket as the rest, even steel cases.

Wish you well, good shootin,

[Treeman]

Just as an example, I once discovered that at real long range each FPS changed the drop by about an inch.

Hahahahahahahahhahahhahahaha.:Fire:

[45nut]

I sort out the 44Mag and chuck it in the trash :)): I keep the 45's :)

[Joey]

I do not sort my brass with the exception of military .45acp which I load 10% less. I shoot targets at 100 yds. For my .38 Spl. brass I load 173, 190, and 200 grain LSWC. All loaded plus P.

My .357 Mag. is loaded with 200 gr.

At one time I did sort my brass, but since I used range pick up it became a pain in the a$$ to sort.

[georgeld]

Sent a pm to one of you guys awhile back about maybe having some 44spl brass mixed in with some 44mags.

Lost the note on who it was.

I've looked and don't have any now. Seems like now that I gave them to someone at the club last year.

I do have about 30 .41 mag brass if anyone wants them.

[MGySgt]

WW, Rem, Star Line, Mil spec - all have different internal capicities.

Try using a MAX load in 44 Mag that was worked up in Rem in a Star Line and you may have a big problem. - If it was a compressed load you may not be able to seat the bullet or the bullet may get pushed back out after loading.

Most of my 38's and 45's are Mil Spec. I sort by year on the head stamp so I can keep it together as one lot, normally 800 - 1,000 of the same lot. These were policed brass from range sessions (requal). Most of my 38's and 45's are for plinking/fun anymore - but I still keep them by head stamp.

Triming 45's - you betcha! - if you flair the mouth to seat a bullet and it is shorter, 1 it probably will shave lead and 2 some of that flair may be left when you straightened out the flair during seating. It can hang up on the feed ramp - been there done that and dropped the points in a match!

Measure the internal capicty of the case. Fill it with water and then weigh it. How much difference is there between WW, Rem, Star Line and Mil Spec??? I know there is a BIG difference between Rem and Mil Spec and WW and Star Line.

I am just too picky about what I put in the chamber of my guns. We go through all the trouble and expense of buying semi custom molds or just the right one, casting good bullets, looking for the ultimate lube. And then we are going to put them in a cases that have different internal capicities?? Not me!

Just my humble opinion.

Drew

[robertbank]

If it doesn't end up improving the accuracy of the round then why bother. Seems like a lot of work for very little gain in the .45acp anyway. I have noticed no difference in results in loads shot over my Chrony, whether they are new brass from the same maker or odds and sods fired a zillion times. Not a bullseye shooter either so I am not attempting shots past 25 yards either.

Take Care

Bob

[georgeld]

You've got it figured out Bob

[Four Fingers of Death]

I sort by brand in handguns and by brand and batch number in high pressure rifle loads. The only time I let them get mixed is if I'm going for a big plinking session.

[robertbank]

Given .45acp brass shortens overtime I would be curious to know what length you trim your .45acp brass to. I have yet to have the belling either not be good enough to prevent lead shaving or fail to be removed upon taper crimping. This is after loading thousands of rounds on my 550B.

I have to say you are the first person I have heard of who trims .45acp cases. Trimming .revolver cases makes some sense as they remain the same length and it does allow for a consistent rolled crimp (Bottle neck cartridges excepted). That and in my case, I don't generally shoot as much revolver as I do pistol and in particular .45acp where often times 200 to 300 rounds can be consumed in one session.

For those of us shooting IPSC/IDPA trimming cases would be a life's work.

Take Care

Bob

[MGySgt]

I noticed that the 45ACP shortend brass a long time ago. Most of my 45ACP brass is milspec that I got from the range officer.

Most of the time I would come up with 1000 - 1400 cases. I would process it all, sort by year, clean and then trim. I would trim all to the shortest (within about .002). I would wind up with 900 plus on a normal year.

My next years Qual would produce the same results and I would throw all my old brass into the range barrel.

I did have about 600 WW match brass that I picked up from the MC rifle/pistol team that I would hord, horded it so long I lost it in one of my PCS moves. Oh well.

Anyway - I too have been loading 1000's of 45ACP's on a Dillion 550B (bought mine in 82 or 83).

When I first started with the 45ACP I didn't trim it either, just re-size deprime and swage the primer pocket. Shooting a custom built 1911A1 (CWO4 from the Marine Corps Pistol Team built it) after break in no jams with the Lyman 452630 if I trimed my brass the first time I used it. Reload it 15 - 20 times with no problem, by then it was time to go back to the range for re-qual and get another batch until they switched to that blasted 9mm.

I don't shoot the auto much any more (tired of picking up brass and loosing so much after preping it), but I do shoot a S&W 625 in 45APC with moon clips. That load is hot and I have to do a hard crimp on them or they will jump. (RCBS 230 CM with a healthy charge of Unique) So now it is important to trim even more.

I still have 3 or 4 lots of 1500 or so 45's that have been sorted but not processed. Someday I will need them, my current lot is 1250 cases and because I crimp them they do grow. I had to trim them again about 3 months ago.

By the way I also have a 6K of 38SP brass that is mill spec.

Drew

[robertbank]

Not trying to be argumentive but what is "mil-spec" .45acp brass? Never heard of it before. Amerc brand is said to supply US Army with small arms ammo and the stuff is absolute crap both out of the box and to reload. Haven't seen any of their 9MM but their .45acp brass goes straight to the re-cycle bin.

Straight walled cases should not grow when shot in a revolver. Bottle neck will for sure but I have never heard that straight walled do. Yes if you are shooting .45acp in a revolver you mightl want to apply a roll crimp if you are shooting top end loads.

Take Care

Bob

[Sagebrush Burns]

I do sort handgun (45 Colt) brass by manufacturer. I have found that different brans (especially W-W and Starline) work differently through my press.

[MGySgt]

Robertbank -

I don't think you are arguementative - We are all here to learn and pass information.

Mil Spec - is ammo loaded for the military, in the past Remington and Winchester loaded most of the small arms (50 cal and below) for the Military. Due to rough handling and long time storage issues and that it could be fired from machine guns (.45ACP in the Thompson and the M3 AKA grease gun) 30-06 M1, BAR, 30 cal watrer cooled, 7.62 (308) in the M14, and M60, the primers were to be sealed and crimped in. The brass was ordered thicker so that it would not deform on rough handling (thrown off the backs of 6 By's (Duce and a Half to the Army Types)).

I do not have any .45's (or for that matter .38's) that are not mil spec. Most of mine is WW from lots in the 60's through about 84. So I can not take a measurement of the actual thickness or case capicity, but from prior experience the case capicity is smaller and the thickness in the side wall and web are thicker.

I don't know how many times you fire your straight walled cases, but my 44 mag, 357 mag and 45's all have changed lengths after 10 or 15 loadings of near max loads.

I had one lot of WW 44 mag cases, about 150, that were loaded in excess of 40 times. They were trimmed and annealed after every 10 loadings and they all trimed some off (.005+??) when they were trimed.

Now that I am shooting the 45's in a revolver I am sure that after about 10 loadings I will need to trim them also. As stated earlier - my current lot has about 1250 cases in it (84 WCC head stamp) and I only have 5 loadings in these so far.

These are my experiences with 44 mag, 357 mag and 45 ACP over 34 years worth of reloading.

If you are getting 15 - 20 loadings out of these with additional triming - you must be holding your mouth right and I am not.

Drew

[robertbank]

I find if you hold your tongue to the left (If your right handed) while shooting it helps.:mrgreen:

No , with straight walled cases I usually trim them once to get a consistent crimp then ignore them. They usually split before overtime. I am surprised you find them lengthening though as there is nothing that should cause it to happen.

As far as mil spec brass is concerned I usually toss any of it that has the crimp on the primer. For me it just isn't worth the effort to remove the crimp. I haven't found any of the military brass to be any better than the commercial stuff to be honest with you.

Because .45acp brass is not as common up here I search with religeous zeal for my brass at the range. Some of my brass I have named and when they eventually split as all good brass will do their passing is noted. I swear I have .45acp brass that has be reloaded 20 times. Surprised that some of it continues to fire given how short the cases become. Being of Scottish heritage I am reluctant to dip into my rather large supply of once fired brass. I am beginning to think I am becoming more and more like my father.....time was when that was a scary thought. Ah, where is Elvis when you need him.

Take Care

Bob