Casting- It can be a challenge, but that's part of the fun

[John 242]

It's been over six-months since the last time I cast bullets thanks to having been overseas. Casting bullets, for me, is a love hate relationship. Sometimes things go well, someitmes I drive myself crazy trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

I dropped a couple wheel weight ingots into my Lee Pro 4-20 and added about a quarter pound of tin. I decided to try something different when it came time to flux. Based on the recommendations of those of you hear on this forum, I went ahead and fluxed with used walnut media from my Lyman vibrator/tumbler. The smoke and stink were a little overpowering, but the breeze blowing through the garage quickly took care of the stench. I don’t know if the walnut is a better flux than the candle wax I usually use, but I stirred it in and left the ash covered the top of the melt.

Once fluxing was complete, with the melt temperature sitting at about 750 degrees, I was ready to start casting some bullets. This would be my first use of my brand new Lee 312-185-1R (2 cavity). I had prepped the mould by washing it with dish soap and then sprayed it with brake cleaner. I lubed the bearing surfaces (what passes for a pin on a Lee 2 cavity) with a little bit of bullet lube.

I started filling the lee mould and got badly wrinkled bullets as the mould continued to heat up. The bullets wouldn’t fall from the mould unless I beat on the nut holding the handles together. I really had to smack the heck out of the thing. The mould grew hotter and hotter, but the bullets kept coming out with wrinkle spots. I wracked my brain trying to figure out why. Was it the brake cleaner? The bullet lube?

I let the Lee mould cool and then scrubbed it, first with mineral spirits and then with Dawn dish washing soap. I used a hair dryer to dry it off and retreated back to the garage to try again. I got everything back up to temp with the same results. I tried bumping up the melt temp to 800 and then 900 degrees, with no luck. I tried heating the mould in the melt and got it hotter and hotter, but the bullets still had spots on them… wrinkle spots. At this point, I was pretty frustrated and cussing Lee and their cheap moulds. I set the Lee mould aside and used my Lyman 314299 to cast up about a 100 perfect bullets at about 850 degrees melt temp with no problems.

Normally, I’m not a very patient guy, but I figured I’d try one more time with the Lee mould before giving up on it. Once it was cool, I gave the cavities a couple shots of Frankford Arsenal mould release from Midway and let it dry. I then got everything back up to temp, started casting and… victory! The Frankford Arsenal mould release made all the difference in the world. The bullets came out perfectly filled out almost from the first cast and they dropped from the mould with a little shake of the handles.

I couldn’t ask for better results. I’m not trying to sell that stuff, I normally don’t use it, but in this instance it really came to the rescue. I usually don’t smoke my moulds, but the Lee mould definitely needed it.

Latter, I busted the o-ring in my RCBS LAM-2 but that’s another story.
Thanks everyone for all of the great advice and the knowledge that’s shared every day. Without this forum I wouldn’t be casting.

[Doby45]

Do NOT use boolit lube on a mold. Regardless of what the Lee instructions say.

[462]

John 242,
I think your new Lee mould has two issues, and the mould release did nothing more than mask both of them:
1. New moulds -- and not just Lee -- may require a couple casting sessions before all the oils are completely removed.
2. Burrs around the cavity edges are the cause of the boolits not freely dropping.

Remedies:
1. Use a mild abrasive cleaner, like Bon-Ami, Comet or Ajax, and a tooth brush and scrub the cavity edges. Some people get excellent results by using an eraser.
2. Thoroughly re-clean and dry the moulds, making sure to remove all the mould release.

Some things to keep in mind:
1. Aluminum moulds require different casting techniques -- especially mould temperature -- than other metals.
2. Leementing stickies are full of information on how to improve the preformance of Lee moulds.
3. Mould release has been known to reduce boolit size.

Don't give up on the mould. You just need to understand the circumstances under which it will give you the perfect boolits than you want.

[Walter Laich]

I've had pretty good luck with the spray on mold release as a last resort, too.

Down the road, when the mold release starts to flake off I still get good looking bullets. There must be something that we can't get off which is trapped behind the mold release.

Not sure what's going on but it works for me

[geargnasher]

What's going on is cutting fluid embedded in the pores of the mould cavities. It takes a while to get it to boil out, no matter how clean you get the surface. The oil will keep leaching out over the first few sessions. If you soak the mould in a jar of mineral spirits before the first casting session the oil will come out. Smoke and mould release is a way of creating a barrier against the cutting fluid.

Here are some other tips for next time, but I'm glad you at least made it work the way you were doing it:

Never use boolit lube or wax on your mould, get yourself some Bullplate from the Bullshop and apply exactly per the directions, no more, no less.

I don't know how much alloy you added 1/4 pound of tin to, but it unless it was at least half full you overtinned the bajeezus out of it. Never put more tin in than antimony, the excess tin that doesn't bond with the antimony to form the intermetallic Sb/Sn ends up forming pure tin nodules upon cooling, which can have a negative effect on boolit performance.

Never run your pot over 750 degrees if you have much tin present, it totally defeats the purpose of adding tin. The oxide barrier effect of tin is destroyed at about 750, and if you cast hotter than that you are far better not adding any at all.

Gear

[btroj]

Gear just explained why I feel the first casting session with a new mould is for break in and learning only. I don't expect great bullets the first time out.

I agree on the Bullplate. I would not cast without it.

Brad

[John 242]

I figured that there might be some sort of contamination in the mould that was causing the wrinkles, but knowing now that cutting fluid could be the problem makes a lot of sense.

I'll keep the bullet lube off of my moulds from now on. I should have an NOE mould en route in the near future with some Bull plate, so once that gets here I'll make sure I use it as directed.

My intent was to add about 2% tin to the roughly 20 lbs of wheel weight alloy. I say roughly because I've never weighed the contents of the a full pot, but according to Lee it's supposed to hold 20 lbs. Having read a bit about alloys on LASC website I realized that going over 750 degrees wasn't good for the tin, but I was kind of desperate. Rather than focusing on mould temperature I was trying to get the melt hotter to help with the fill out. That, I believe, was a mistake. Because of the sticking bullets, my pace was pretty slow resulting in a mould that wouldn't stay as hot as it should be.
I've had good results with a high melt temps before (800 plus degrees), but I am begining to realize that I need to focus on the mould and not on the pot.
I could have backed it down when I was using the 314299 but it was casting so good that and I just went with it.
Lesson learned. Next time I will turn down the heat some and try to stay bellow 750.

I used an Arkansas stone, a bronze brush and fine steel wool on my Lyman 314299 and found it's casting ability greatly improved. I don't know if there was a burr or something but before the mould blocks weren't lining up correctly, but now everything is fine. Bullets used to stick in that mould too, but now they just fall free without release agent. I was going to send the mould back to Lyman, but now it casts great. So far I have gotten good results without hopefully messing anything up.
I'll go to castpics (I love it there) and do some more reading (homework).

I'll be leaving in a couple of days to head back overseas, but before I go I'll make sure that I give that Lee mould a good scrubbing and soak with mineral spirits. I better do it now, because by the time I get back home I'll have forgotten all of this and will end up having the same problem all over again (I need to keep notes!).

Thanks everyone for all the help and the suggestions. I appreciate it.

[Bret4207]

I'd get that mouls release out of the cavity ASAP. I think in some cases, not all, it may help soak up the oils in the mould, but it's just not worth it IMO. Some moulds just take 2-3 heating/cooling cycles to get with the program.

[462]

John 242,
Sometimes, we get sidetracked without being aware of it. Give the Lee mould the same fine-tuning and TLC, that you did the Lyman, and its performance will be the same.

I don't like casting hurdles popping up, either. But, when they do and after I've calmed down, their remedies, as your title says, can be fun.

[geargnasher]

Godspeed back home, John 242, here's to hoping that if you bring back any lead from your adventures it ain't in your ****!:drinks:

Gear

[Doby45]

HOOOAH, John..

[John 242]

Godspeed back home, John 242, here's to hoping that if you bring back any lead from your adventures it ain't in your ****!:drinks:

Gear

LOL... Thanks.

I'll work on the Lee mould and get it cleaned up when I get the chance. Thanks everybody.
Take care,
John

[0verkill]

Why don't you use bullet lube on moulds?

[Charlie Two Tracks]

For me, it took time at the casting table. I had a LEE 148 TLWC mold that was my first one. I cast and cast and asked questions and had a fit with fillout and being able to drop good boolits. I beagled the mold, unbeagled it, cleaned it many times, used mold release on it, cleaned mold release out of it, cussed it, almost threw it across the garage and finally ordered a mold off of this board. I found out when I received the new mold, that the LEE mold only had vent lines on one side.............. I thought that is the way a mold is supposed to be. Live and learn. When you don't know what stuff is supposed to look like, it's hard to tell if there is something wrong with it.

Overkill: I don't know why, they said not to on this board and that is plenty good enough for me. There will be correct answers on that question coming soon.

[ColColt]

John-I'm the least of the least around here but, I'd make sure with a thermometer that you're getting the temperature you want. You may have the thermometer on the pot set for 800 degrees but the mix could be something much less. Case in point is my old Lyman Mold Master that's 30+ years old. I thought if I set it on 675 that's what I was going to get to melt the lead/tin quickly-not so. The external thermometer sold by Swede recently told the tale for me. I was getting around 600-620 degrees instead of that I had the stat on the pot set for...it lied to me. I want cast without that thermometer anymore. Of course, with the mix on say, 650, if you drop anymore metal, be it a pound ingot or half a pound of spruces the temp comes down as you probably know.

[rayzer]

Today I got out casting for the first time this year. I had a similar experiance as John. I was casting with 4 new molds, that I bought over the winter. 2 Lee's & 2 NOE's. I got nothing but wrinkles. But I was expecting this. This has happened to me in the past when working with new molds. I heated the molds up till I was getting frosted boolits, then I set the molds aside and grabbed 2 more, and did the same thing. After doing this 3 times, something magically happened. I started getting perfect boolits. As Geargnasher has said you have to burn off the cutting fluid out of the cavity's. This was something that I learned from the great guy's on this site. If it was'nt for ths site I would have thrown my first mold in the garbage 3 years ago. Take care over there John.