Practice bullet for 30-06

[HEAD0001]

I am looking for a good practice bullet for a 30-06 rifle. I would like to cast with straight WW. And keep the velocity and noise level down fairly low. I am looking to shoot on the cheap. So I think I would prefer to aviod a GC design. I was thinking a heavier bullet at 1200-1400 fps?? What do you guys think?? Tom.

[Doby45]

There was just one for sale in the Swap section something like a 220gr 30cal boolit. Lemme see if I can find it.

Nevermind, it is SPF.

You also can shoot a GC boolit without a GC, so don't limit yourself.

[onondaga]

The selection of plain base, non gas check bullets in 30 cal is very limited. I hope you let us know what you select. Lee currently has none in production. Here is one candidate I found:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=452042
Not a heavy weight at 150 grains, but it has a good proven plain base design in cowboy competition for accuracy at low velocity.

The Lyman Cast Bullet handbook lists a start load for a cast bullet weighing 150 grains in a 30-06 with AA5744 with 24.5 grains yielding 1848 fps. The AA5744 is an ideal powder for reduced loads with cast bullets as that powder is NOT position sensitive for ignition and would not need a filler with the 24.5 grain starting load and a 150 gr cast bullet. That starting load only has a pressure of 19,100 PSI and wheelweight alloy would be sufficient with a good bullet fit of .002 larger than groove to groove slugged bore diameter.

Some other "close to" loads from our CastData R1 reference:

RCBS-30-150-FN RedDot 14 gr. 1714 fps
" " " IMR4895 32 gr. 1862fps
" " " 2400 23 gr. 2007 fps
" " " Rel #7 27 gr. 1856 fps

Gary





I would just cast them and tumble lube them and load them up for a try, But I do encourage you to consider gas checked bullets for better accuracy, cleaner bore and uniform bullet bases.

Gary

[1Shirt]

Once in awhile you will find a plain base 30 mold on e-bay. They tend to go pretty high however.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[Doby45]

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=107545

You can get a single cavity with no GC

[USSR]

This is the one that I am going with: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=102895

Don

[Lead Fred]

I push the Ranch Dog 30-30 boolit over 2500fps, but then it is a GC round [smilie=1:

[Ben]

This might be worth your time to look at if you're
interested in shooting plain base .30 cal. cast bullets :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=55235

[zomby woof]

Get yourself a LEE mold and have someone remove the GC. I have a LEE 30 cal 170 that I had done. Shoots great at 100 with very low powder charges. I kept the speeds under 1200

[MT Gianni]

I suggest a 311466 and a checkmaker. You will get great accuracy with that boolit and if money is an issue you can make your own checks. OTOH, how long will it take to shoot a thousand checked? I don't mind buying some checks because the accuracy is generally so much easier to find.

[HARRYMPOPE]

if it is a commercial 30-06 or 1903 the SAECO 140g #630 is a very good bullet.It is a bit small for the 7.62 x 54 and 303 Brit.For general plinking 6-8 of BullsEye is hard to beat,but about any fast shotgun/magnum handgun powder will work.I own about 15 plainbase 30 cal molds and quite honestly a standard GC bullets sans GC(let the lube fill the GC shank or better tumble lube onondaga says) often shoots as well as my "real" PB bullets.I agree with zomby woof on the 1200 fps velocity.I rarely shoot GC bullets in the 30-06 these days and up to 200 yards they are just fine if 1.5-2 MOA is acceptably accuracy for your needs.Sometimes you will get better accuracy than this,but not as a general rule.

if you want to look for a classic the Lyman ideal 308/311241 is hard to beat as well.The 150g is the better weight(they also cut it short at about 125) Expect to pay about $60+ for a single cavity.

the SAECO #630 is on clearance at Midway (one left)

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=127703&cm_mmc=Froogle-_-Reloading%20-%20Bullet%20Casting-_-PriceCompListing-_-127703

HMP

[geargnasher]

"Soup Can" .30 caliber.

Gear

[HARRYMPOPE]

how long will it take to shoot a thousand checked?

About every month in the summer in 30 cal.

I got sick of $20-$30 checks and resorted to spending a couple 1000 dollars in plainbase molds to avoid them.Economically made so sense,but has been a fun experience.I cant bring myself to buy GC's though my accuracy is generally much better.I am still running on the last two $12 a box Hornadys.I did finally break down and order a Patsmarlin check maker.Hope it works as well i i expect.

HMP

[GabbyM]

There’s the Saeco 140 grain and the RCBS 150 grain. RCBS holds a lot more lube but I can’t say it would matter.
I have the Saeco and a 30-30 over 8 grains of Unique is OK for abut 25 shots. Then we need to swab out the bore to get accuracy Back. Just a wet patch. At your velocity expectations they should work even better. Basically 22 rimfire velocity plus a little . But they are almost four times heavier than a 22 rf and have a flat meplat. So they aren’t a 22 RF.

Saeco 140’s are for sale at link below. The Saeco mould is available in a four cavity so you can make piles of them. I’ve frankly not heard a report on the RCBS bullet. They look like they’d hold much more lube. But I don’t think the lube volume is the limiting factor.

http://www.reloadersauction.com/30-cal-Rifle-140gr-FP-250ct,name,140756,auction_id,auction_details


Link is reloadersauction dot com Illinois Bullet Company

Varmints up to 40 pounds would be rolled over. Even with the 1400 fps loads you can see the 30 caliber base outbound from iron sights if the light is right. It’s neat. If you do the math you have the energy comparable to a 357 magnum revolver.

As a disclaimer I do have an interest in this bullet company.

Our 30-30 is almost new. We have a few shooting these through well broken in 30-30’s over 7 ½ grains Unique and they don’t need to stop to clean the barrel. Simply put without a gas check on a rifle bullet your window is smaller. Your modest velocity expectations will be easily met with a plain based bullet. As the weight of the bullet increases the force needed to drive it increases. Which is why you do not see a commercial heavy plain based 30 caliber boolit. There are some but it’s rare to hear anyone having any luck with them.
Unless you are looking to shoot sub sonic velocity bullets.

[HARRYMPOPE]

"As the weight of the bullet increases the force needed to drive it increases. Which is why you do not see a commercial heavy plain based 30 caliber boolit. There are some but it’s rare to hear anyone having any luck with them. "

In 30-06 and 7.62R i have good luck with PB bullets from 190- 225 from 1150 to 1350.For economy and 100 and shooting i find no advantage to a bullet much over 150g though.
I get better ES's and SD's with heavier PB bullets in those calibers as opposed to the lighter ones.My main obstacle has been the "fouling" you refer to in your 8g Unique load in the 30-30.it is sometimes not a problem and sometimes a killer! i even shoot hard plainbase without any lube with success,and it confuses me even more!

HMP

[GabbyM]

"As the weight of the bullet increases the force needed to drive it increases. Which is why you do not see a commercial heavy plain based 30 caliber boolit. There are some but it’s rare to hear anyone having any luck with them. "

In 30-06 and 7.62R i have good luck with PB bullets from 190- 225 from 1150 to 1350.For economy and 100 and shooting i find no advantage to a bullet much over 150g though.
I get better ES's and SD's with heavier PB bullets in those calibers as opposed to the lighter ones.My main obstacle has been the "fouling" you refer to in your 8g Unique load in the 30-30.it is sometimes not a problem and sometimes a killer! i even shoot hard plainbase without any lube with success,and it confuses me even more!

HMP

I’ve never worked with heavy bullets at slightly over speed of sound. As I'm sure you know. Issue is when you run a bullet barely over the speed of sound you get that accuracy degradation when it transitions to below the sound barrier. If you know your distance and that’s all you need to work for then a bullet at 100 fps over the speed of sound is fine. The heavy plain based bullet in 30 caliber pushes the edge of performance in a couple of parameters. An experienced booliteer who knows what to expect from the boolit can work with it to milk out the last bit of performance. For the average shooter or even an experience shooter with many guns that just wants to pick a load from a manual then go shooting. Working on the edge is an effort which will take a few days to work out. So I’ll still say the big bullets are best kept sub sonic just like the BPCR rounds. But if you have a window you shoot in where the 1,100 fps heavies work then great. That would be sub sonic down on your beach. But not on your high mountain in Oregon. 1350 fps with a heavy plain base 30 caliber would be a very nice load. Loads like that aren’t what I’d call amateur territory. Not even sportsman territory for that mater. Running 190 -225 grain plain based 30 caliber bullets super sonic is what I’d call expert territory. You are for sure not going to do it in any old gun. Certainly would be an honorable goal to seek out. Witch is why you see no mass productin moulds offered in heavy 30 caliber plain base.

[Bret4207]

Lyman 311008.

[BABore]

Shameless plug.

BRP 312-150 PB

I will soon have both a 312-100 PB and 311-120 PB available as well.

[Doby45]

Whisper 247gr boolit 30cal.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=1113263&postcount=1

[HARRYMPOPE]

Whisper 247gr boolit 30cal.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=1113263&postcount=1

is there anybody shooting this yet?

It is an interesting design
.
HMP

[HARRYMPOPE]

[QUOTE= But if you have a window you shoot in where the 1,100 fps heavies work then great. That would be sub sonic down on your beach. But not on your high mountain in Oregon. 1350 fps with a heavy plain base 30 caliber would be a very nice load. Loads like that aren’t what I’d call amateur territory. Not even sportsman territory for that mater. Running 190 -225 grain plain based 30 caliber bullets super sonic is what I’d call expert territory. You are for sure not going to do it in any old gun. Certainly would be an honorable goal to seek out. Witch is why you see no mass productin moulds offered in heavy 30 caliber plain base.[/QUOTE]

Th only thing i will say it the SD's need to be very uniform with any PB load to be consistently accurate at about 1200.I have shot PB 30 calibers casually about 12 years and seriously for the last 3 or so.I work my loads up on chronograph and pay attention to the velocities closely.i haven't had a problem getting plainbase to shoot responsibly well up to 200 yards when launched at 1250.I think (just my opinion)there is no heavy PB .30 bullet offered by "in stock" bullet mold MFGs because few think of the PB 30 as a target load. For plinking form 50 to 100 the 311008 and RCBS 150 Cowboy are good 'nuff.

Here is a 190 PB bullet from a 6X scoped Russian 91-30 @ 200 Two consecutive 10 shot groups.(click on target to enlarge)

11.0 TrailBoss with Fed Lg Pistol Primer
ES 10.2
SD 3.0
Vel 1228 5" from the muzzle

[NHlever]

For casual shooting, I've never seen a problem using the lighter boolits like the Lyman 311008. That was the first mold I owned some 50 years ago, and a lot of small game was sorry that I had. My old 30-30 saddle ring carbine ate them as fast as I could cast them it seemed. As I aquired more rifles the mold continued to be used, and still is today. Over 10.0- 12 grains, or so of Unique it is great fun, and good practice out of my .30-30's (7.0-8.0 grains with the 30-30), .308 Winchester's, and 30-06 Springfield rifles. It can be a poor man's 32-20 pretty easily. In recent years I've shot a lot of them over even smaller charges of Red Dot. I use the gas checked Lyman 311316U for higher velocities with the 115 grain FN, but unfortunately it is no longer produced. The Lee "soupcan" C-309-113-FN ( I think) is the same thing, and easily available for a very reasonable price. It seems that one author got good results with that bullet without the gas check at lower velocities, but I have never tried it, so I can't vouch for that.

[caseyboy]

I shoot Lyman 314299s with a home punched GC out of Al at about 1350fps (using red dot) out of a scoped Lee-Enfield as a practice round out to 200yds. My reasoning is simple. I shoot both smallbore and high power silhouette. Cheap practice rounds enables one to shoot alot and develope the offhand skills. The loads I shoot are less than a dime apiece. Accuracy off the bench is one ragged hole at 50yds. Inch to inch and a half at 100yds and up to 4" at 200yds depending on the wind.

Yesterday I bought enough Al flashing to puch out about 2000 checks. Cost was $3.18 including taxes. That works out to 0.159 cents a check.

I have also been playing around with IMR4227 looking for 1800fps. Seems very doable. If I can decide upon a good load, I will even try the silhouette game with cast.:cbpour: