Lyman 311284 in the 30-30 ?

[brstevns]

Since I was casting some bullets up for my No1 Mk3 using the 311284 I was wondering if anyone has tried it in the 30-30. I have both a marlin and a winchester to use it in.

[chboats]

I have shot the 311284 in a TC Encore 30-30 with good results. Possible problems for you are that most 30-30s have little or no throat, which would require seating the boolit well below the neck. If you do have a long enough throat the over all length might be a problem with feeding through the magazine. Also the point on the nose could be dangerous in a tube magazine. Make up a couple of dummies and give them a try. You can always single feed them.

carl

[Marlin Junky]

311284 is no problem in your '94 if you want to load them one at a time. A full case of H414, W760 or 4350 will do the trick. If you want to fill the magazine, well that's a bit more complicated.

MJ

[NHlever]

Frank Marshall had an article in "Foulling Shots" where he mentioned using that bullet with the nose flattened to hunt deer. He was using it in a Savage 340 bolt gun I think. The article is reprinted in Lyman's #3 Cast Bullet Manual.

[brstevns]

Thanks I believe I read that article, I think he used a flat nose punch and washer setup on a lyman 450. I had thought maybe using a 30cal file trim die and just file off a small amount.

[hiram]

In Lymans cast bullet manual, there is an article about the 311284 / M94 with something like 28gr of 4350. Just check.

[NHlever]

Thanks I believe I read that article, I think he used a flat nose punch and washer setup on a lyman 450. I had thought maybe using a 30cal file trim die and just file off a small amount.

Yes, that is how he put flats on the nose. I've had some trouble doing that. Sometimes I have actually bent the bore riding section, and sometimes I have swaged it larger in the process ( material you move has to go somewhere) so I think the file method would work, and I may try that myself.

[Will]

I use a file to flatten pointed 30-30 boolits before I load them and then weigh them to be sure I have removed the same amount from each. You could also usa a caliper to get them the same.

[gnoahhh]

I made a file trim die out of cold rolled steel, case hardened, to do that on 311284s. Works great. Biggest problem is in keeping the lead from gumming up the file, so I use old rusty yard sale files for doing it.

Frank Marshall's articles in the Fouling Shot 30 years ago sent me down that road of experimentation. I too found 4350 to work the best. Accuracy is superb, and never felt handicapped with the bullet protruding into the case somewhat. I might hasten to add that I've only done this in a M54 Winchester bolt gun and various Savage 1899's. It's been so long since I owned a M94 I can't remember if I used this bullet in it or not.

Anymore, I just use a 190gr. FN over 3031 or 4064 for my go-to heavy .30/30 and .303 Savage hunting rounds.

[nanuk]

Yes, that is how he put flats on the nose. I've had some trouble doing that. Sometimes I have actually bent the bore riding section, and sometimes I have swaged it larger in the process ( material you move has to go somewhere) so I think the file method would work, and I may try that myself.

IIRC, Marshall used the top punch to "bump" the nose to fit his 340, as he commented it had a rather generous bore diameter.

[sagamore-one]

I just grouped some 311284's today out of my Stevens 325 boltgun in 30-30.. Cast of Lyman # 2 alloy, sized .311, lubed with NRA formula 50/50 beeswax/ alox, over 26.5 of 748, lit by a Remington Magnum rifle primer. Seated the boolits to fit in magazine at 2.620. 9 shots under one inch at 25 yards offhand. Snow is 6-8 inches deep on the range.
Too much snow to go to 50 or 100 or set up the chronograph.
Am in the process of fitting a recoil pad at this time. The little beastie bites !!!

[NHlever]

Gnoahhh, try rubbing some chalk on the file first. It helps a lot to keep the file cleaner when filing some materials.

[gnoahhh]

Thanks for the tip. I'd heard that but never tried it. I just use a $.25 rusty file until it's clogged, then throw it away. I'll admit, pretty wasteful.

[brstevns]

Will I thought if the file clogged I could just heat her up and melt off the lead, if not maybe a file type rasp could be used?

[hiram]

Heat the file enough to melt the lead and the file might soften and lose its cutting ability.

[plainsman456]

I have used soapstone and Trans fluid when working with aluminum.
Would the fluid keep lead from clogging the file?

[MarkW]

To keep files clean either use chalk (I use a bottle of the chalk powder used for chalk lines) or get some lime from someone who uses the machine to put the markings on baseball fields. That is powdered lime, and a styrofoam cup of it is going to last a loong time.

There is also a wire brush type thing called a "file card", but frequent chalk application does a lot towards keeping the teeth unclogged.

[45-70 Chevroner]

hiram: I'm not slamming you, but I don't think you could ever heat a file so much that it would'nt work on lead even the hardest lead. It's very easy to get the lead out of a file, I have a wire wheel on one of my grinders and I just run the file across the wire wheel in the same direction as the cutting edges of the file. I have been using this method for a long time and it won't hurt the file. I also have modified my Lyman #45 to be able to bump the nose of pointed cast boolits (it's not a 450 this thing is probably 45 years old). I haven't figured out how to modify my 450 yet it's a different animal all to gether.

[brstevns]

This is sounding more interesting all the time. I have a wire brush setup so will try that frist.

[rintinglen]

In my own experiments with heavy boolits and the 30-30, I found the 195 grain RCBS 30-180 FN to be the heaviest boolit that would group well. Heavier boolits seemed to have difficulty stabilizing, At least, out of my Model 94.s My Savage bolt gun has a very short throat, so I am limited to what it will chamber. I have had good luck with the 311-413 in it.

[NHlever]

In my own experiments with heavy boolits and the 30-30, I found the 195 grain RCBS 30-180 FN to be the heaviest boolit that would group well. Heavier boolits seemed to have difficulty stabilizing, At least, out of my Model 94.s My Savage bolt gun has a very short throat, so I am limited to what it will chamber. I have had good luck with the 311-413 in it.

Winchester 30-30's usually have a 1-12" twist while Marlins have a 1-10" which might make enough difference to work with the heavier boolits.

[6.5 mike]

Hmmm, may have to give this a try in my 325b :popcorn:.

[goofyoldfart]

[QUOTE=gnoahhh;1176660]I made a file trim die out of cold rolled steel, case hardened, to do that on 311284s. Works great. Biggest problem is in keeping the lead from gumming up the file, so I use old rusty yard sale files for doing it.

Gnoahhh : use the chalk (string chalk or kids sidewalk chalk) and a file card. throwing the files away is a quarter that could go to powder or primers.;) Or if you are going to do that, if you know some one who likes to make knives--give them to them. files are good knife steel.:smile: God Bless to all.

Goofyoldfart

[Jeffrey]

WD-40 on the file will greatly reduce the lead sticking in it, and make it easier to brush out the lead that does stick. I've never filed lead, only pewter. J

[gnoahhh]

I use files in my day job. A lot. I imagine I have spent well over $1000 over the years to build the collection of files that run the gamut from jeweler's files through Swiss files on up to big nasty coarse jobs and rasps. I wear out a file card about once a year. But with all that, I never tried the chalk trick, although I was aware of it. I like the thought of using WD-40 too, but I have banned that stuff from my shop. I have a two room shop, metal working machinery on one side, woodworking on the other, with a double door between the two that I'm too lazy to keep shut. Now, all lubricating in the metal shop side is done with oil cans and drip oilers. If you have ever chased fisheyes in a varnish finish due to airborne molecules of WD-40 you would do the same! I wouldn't even dare take the file outside to spray it, then bring it inside to use it. Those GD'ed molecules are insidious. I don't even store the stuff, or any other spray lube, in the building anymore.

I'm not totally opposed to WD-40. Using it as a water displacing compound (it's original intended use, WD= Water Displacing) is good. I use it at home to displace water out of muzzle loader locks and cap-and-ball revolvers after cleaning in hot soapy water. Then, after the WD-40 dries, I lube with a good gun oil.

(Besides, a rusty $.25 file lasts a good long time. It's not like I file the noses of 311284s every day!)

[brstevns]

Does anyone have a good load using the 311284?

[NHlever]

From what I've heard, since I never had that mold, using slower powders with the heavier boolits in the 30-30 works best. The 4350's, H-414, Win 760, etc. seem to be favorites. I wouldn't start with anything faster than Rx7, and even that is quite a bit faster than the first powders mentioned. The new Lyman manual is very weak on load data for both the 30-30, and the .35 Remington, and that is a shame since both are so much fun, and so practical with cast boolits. The 30-30 makes a wonderful poor man's 32-20 when one can't be found, or afforded when found, and yet there is no mention of light boolits for either caliber.

[brstevns]

Thanks I do have some AA4530

[krag35]

I have loaded and shot 311284's out of a Savage 24 30-30X20 gauge ( still not sure why I sold that combo gun) I don't have acess to my notes, but I beleive it was a charge of H 414. I remember it shot pretty well.

[goofyoldfart]

gnoahhh
I'm not totally opposed to WD-40. Using it as a water displacing compound (it's original intended use, WD= Water Displacing) is good. I use it at home to displace water out of muzzle loader locks and cap-and-ball revolvers after cleaning in hot soapy water. Then, after the WD-40 dries, I lube with a good gun oil.

(Besides, a rusty $.25 file lasts a good long time. It's not like I file the noses of 311284s every day!)

I can really appreciate your point of view. I have a very large collection of files also. when I go to garage sales I look for old used files. some can be cleaned up and used or they DO make good knife blades. :wink::D God Bless to you and yours.

GOF aka Goofy.