Lube failed LOL at 3000 FPS

[Johnch]

Just thought I would pass this along .
I got a good laugh at a freinds expense

But it make me wonder

Last week I had a bunch of the RCBS 22 cal 55 gr GC bullets sitting on the reloading bench cast out of Lino lubed with Lars Carnauba lube .
I was working up a about 2000 FPS load for varmit hunting

A freind was asking about then , he wanted to try them.
So I sent a hundred or so home with him

I lent him my Newest Lyman cast bullet manul for load data

This afternoon we headed to the range to shoot

He brought his 22/250 with the cast bullets , I think it has a 1- 14 twist
I figured he looked up a load for cast bullets

NO , he just subed the cast for jacketed in a low to mid range load with IMR 4350.

I then explained that cast normaly will not shoot for @#*^%#@ at high speed

But he only had 20 loaded and figured the best way to pull the bullets was to shoot them out .

Well he picked a fresh target at 100 yds and fired a 5 shot group
A 4.5" group from a cold barrel , with just a little lead close to the muzzel
Second group was just under 5" , then a 6.5" with 1 flyer adding at least 1 "

I had him stop , so I could get the cronagraph out
2940 to 3098 fps and a 4.5" group

Never going to claim those were good groups
Also after 20 rnds there was a fair amount of lead in the barrel

:groner: I guess I will either have to change lubes :groner:
Fat chance

Or he will just have to slow them down a little
But I think if he drops the velosity some that rifle just may shoot cast pretty well .


IMO that was opperator error , not a try lube failing

BTW my 223 with a 12" twist is grouping 1.6" to 2" at 100 with the 3 loads I have tryed so far
Good enough for the 150 yd yotes shots

Johnch

[454PB]

I've used that same boolit up to 2500 fps in .222 Remington and 22/250 with great results. I never tried for 3000 fps., but it was interesting to read the results.

[Bass Ackward]

John,

Very few lubes fail because of velocity. They fail because of pressure. 39 grains of 7828 behind that bullet is only 35,000 psi (depending on seating depth) and 3000 depending on barrel length. And it held below 1 1/2" for me.

Get the lead out and try anything in that burn rate range. Oh and that was a magnum pistol primer too.

[scrapcan]

Bass,

What case are you running the 7828 in? How full is that case. I have been interested in trying some slower powders with cast in the 22-250, but had never thought about going to that slow of a powder. I use IMR 7828 in 7mm-06 (like it alot in 25-06 also) and just happen to have some cans on the shelf. I have to ask you for more of your experiences with the slow powder.

What hardness are you running? How does you barrel slug? How did you seat the bullet (touching/engraving/freebore)?

I have a bator on order (should be dellvered on 11/22) and several lyman (225438 and 225415) that I would like to try a slow powder with in the 22-250.

Jeremy

[Bass Ackward]

Bass,

What case are you running the 7828 in? How full is that case?
What hardness are you running?
How does you barrel slug?
How did you seat the bullet (touching/engraving/freebore)?

I have a bator on order (should be dellvered on 11/22) and several lyman (225438 and 225415) that I would like to try a slow powder with in the 22-250.

Jeremy


Jeremy,

1. The cases were Remington and they were full up into the neck with a slight compression.
2. The bullets were 14 BHN.
3. This particular gun was .224. But the throat was .226. The bullets were sized .225 and I think I could have done better with .2255.
I always seat to engrave lightly enough that the case can be extracted. Then I use a light coat of LLA painted on with a Q-Tip after the round is loaded. To help the sizer (barrel).

Slow? Slow is determined by what powder fills at least 90% of a case and provides the pressure just under the maximum for a certain bullet weight / lead hardness / lube combination. I run a computer program called Quickload that enables me to make predicted velocities meet chronod. Then I can track pressures and flip between several powders until I find one that works. It is invaluable for this purpose. I have more success with the sticks than balls at this end of the spectrum where ignition can come into question. This was the gun that I went to 3500 fps with to see where lead vaporized in the air.

RL22 is another option for this purpose. Just 1000 psi difference to the slow side.

From these experiments, I decided to build a Match 223 with a 14 twist and stay around 50 grains with bullet weight. The lighter the bullet, the higher the velocity potential for a fixed hardness. (less inertia)

[scrapcan]

Bass,

I have read and re-read your posts on the 22s.

I have been interested in the 22 since I had a ruger 1V that topped out on accuracy at about 3/4 inch at 100yds. Of course I did all the recommended accuracy treatments for the rifle at the time, changed hanger/installed pressure point/hand lapped barrel/etc... It would do it all day long with regularity and no matter what I tried at the time it only teased me with smaller grups once in a while. I had shot is so much that the throat had lengthened ( I now know I was using the wrong powder and caused that all on my own) and I decided to sell instead of rebarrel. Enough of that old story.
To the present.

I just recently built a 22-250 on a santa barbara commercial mauser action, yeah a bit overkill for the round but I got a good barrel cheap. I can always make it into a more usable rifle later. It shoots copper jackets pretty good. But my goal is to to shoot cast in it.

I have a question about quick load. Does it take barrel volume/expansion ration into account? I am just curious to if barrel volume has some bearing on the use of slower powders being useable?

Thanks for the info and look forward to more.

Jeremy

[Bass Ackward]

I have a question about quick load. Does it take barrel volume/expansion ration into account? I am just curious to if barrel volume has some bearing on the use of slower powders being useable?Jeremy


Jeremy,

Yes. What I like is that it will show you where pressure will peak down the bore. From that you can see how fast the bullet is going when it does. The faster a bullet can over come inertia and the faster it goes when pressure peaks, the softer bullet you can run .... OR .... the more pressure (velocity) you can generate behind it. Once you see where the hardness / lube fails, you can guess pretty close with every other powder you want to try.

The ways to cheat here are simple: A harder bullet to take more pressure. A lighter bullet (IF you have a short throat) to have less inertia and move out faster. Or run a slower powder / lighter primer combo to push the max pressure farther down the pipe. Sometimes it takes all three. Sometimes it don't.

[scrapcan]

Bass,

Sent you a PM and thanks for the info so far.

Jeremy

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for posting this. Makes me realize I can cheaply shoot the M4 clone I'm building right now. What bullet mold are you folk using and does Lee have a good one in a 6 ganger? How hard does the bullet have to be for .223 loads?

Regards,

Dave