Brass annealing

[kokomokid]

Does anyone use tempilaq and how are you useing it? Mine (650*F) just turns black instead of melting. I have to hold about 1 1/2 seconds after it turns black to get any kind of color change on my brass. After a lot of reading it seems that 650*F must be held for several minutes while 750*F will do a proper aneal in seconds.

[Boz330]

I had the same problem. I just went to watching for a color change in the brass. As soon as there is any noticeable change in hue I quench it.

Bob

[Dan Cash]

I use Tempilaq 550 stick. As soon as it melts the brass is soft. I marked cases at the lower desired extremity of anealing and passed them through the torch flame on a "spinning" tool. I noted the time it took for the crayon mark to melt. Thereafter, I just timed the cases passage through the flame. Works for me.

[montana_charlie]

Are we talking about Tempilstiks (the crayons) or Tempilaq (the liquid)?

You paint a stripe of Tempilaq on the brass, then heat until the stripe darkens.

With the crayon, (I think) you heat the brass and touch the crayon to it every once in a while...until it's hot enough to melt the crayon.

Both substances are hard to clean off of the brass. So, you only want to do it to a few cases, while you figure out the correct timing. Then you can work on 'time' alone.

If you paint the stripe on down below the area you want to anneal, it will not turn until the neck has been 'hot' for a certain length of time. The location of the stripe determines how long the neck is 'hot' before you quit.

Quenching has no effect on the brass. It's just a quick way to cool it.

CM

[Boz330]

Quenching has no effect on the brass. It's just a quick way to cool it.

CM

Correct just eliminates dealing with hot brass, my mistake for not clarifying that. Once heated the annealing is done.

Bob

[John Boy]

Mine (650*F) just turns black instead of melting.
... and be prepared for a hard time to remove the black residue when you clean your brass.
I bought and used the crayon and liquid - used it once and never again. Much easier to just watch the brass turn a dark straw color and then dunk them

[roaddog1m]

I might be doing it all wrong but it's worked pretty good so far. I spin my brass in a cordless drill and heat it with a torch for 6 seconds then quench it. I know, not very scientific but that's what I do and it seems to be working. I get a lot of life out of my cases and I use that brass in long range competition out to 1000yds.

[Boz330]

I might be doing it all wrong but it's worked pretty good so far. I spin my brass in a cordless drill and heat it with a torch for 6 seconds then quench it. I know, not very scientific but that's what I do and it seems to be working. I get a lot of life out of my cases and I use that brass in long range competition out to 1000yds.

The big thing is to not let them get to the dull red that use to be the norm according to some articles I read. That is way to soft.
I picked up one of the cordless screwdrivers and made a cup for it that the brass is just a slip fit in. Cheap and works pretty well.

Bob

[1Shirt]

Never used anything to hold them in while I heated the necks and a little of the shoulders. I just hold them in my hand and when they are to hot, I drop them in water. I usually count to about 6-7 as I turn them in my hand. That shows a little color change. Faster than using any kind of turning device. Have been doing it for many years that way and I am not one to fix things that work. Just my opinion.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[kokomokid]

Tried to upload a picture but have a problem. Anyway I neck turn my brass down .500" for a neck (40/65) and it leaves a very shiny surface that does not change colors when I anneal. If I hold the neck in the fire about 1.5 seconds after the tempilaq (650) turns black then I get a faint hue or color change about .050" below the neck turn. I use very fine steel wool and it takes the tempilaq scap right off. Think I will try a few cases dipped at diferent temps in the lead pot and see what kind of hue change I show. Any sugestions on lead pot dipping?

[Boz330]

Never used anything to hold them in while I heated the necks and a little of the shoulders. I just hold them in my hand and when they are to hot, I drop them in water. I usually count to about 6-7 as I turn them in my hand. That shows a little color change. Faster than using any kind of turning device. Have been doing it for many years that way and I am not one to fix things that work. Just my opinion.
1Shirt!:coffee:

I've done it that way as well but the screwdriver just gives a nice even turn rate. Just falls under the many ways to skin a cat thing.

Bob

[The Double D]

I use the 650 tempilaq.

Hold in a rotary tool under flame. When tempilaq turns black drop in water to quench.

http://www.fototime.com/350CD830FBAA3E8/standard.jpg

If you rely on seeing color you must be sure that you know what is the correct color. You also be sure the light in the room is always the same every time you anneal. A bright sunny day will be harder to see color than at night.

I anneal some cases tho other night and it was the first time I saw color. I don't recall seeing color before.

If the light is to bright and you heat to long, you are in danger of softening the head. You are also may over anneal the case and burn the brass.

If you do not quench the heat will continue annealing down the body of the brass before the temperature drops. . Quenching stop the heating/annealing process immediately.

Quenching will also cause the tempilaq to wash off the case.

Using tempilaq assures uniform application of heat every time. At $5 a case I won't use anything else.

It's like anything we do in this hobby. Try it, if you like it use it. If you don't move on.

[kokomokid]

OK, tried the lead pot at diff temps and will not do that again! Double D looks like what Im doing just worry about getting the head too hot.

[Shooter6br]

Article on Ammosmith .com. I make 6.5 Jap cases from 220 Swift brass. Damn Winchester brass is brittle( Had a bunch left over from my Ruger 220 Swift so I dont mind the neck splits, but alot of work to make.

[The Double D]

OK, tried the lead pot at diff temps and will not do that again! Double D looks like what Im doing just worry about getting the head too hot.

If you use the tempilaq and when the stuff turns black drop in water the head will be just fine

[kirb]

I may be doing it wrong but I put the liquid Tempilaq inside the neck and watch for the change. I polish the case every time before I reload and brush out the necks before and after annealing.

Kirb

[roaddog1m]

Never used anything to hold them in while I heated the necks and a little of the shoulders. I just hold them in my hand and when they are to hot, I drop them in water. I usually count to about 6-7 as I turn them in my hand. That shows a little color change. Faster than using any kind of turning device. Have been doing it for many years that way and I am not one to fix things that work. Just my opinion.
1Shirt!:coffee:


Yep, that's how I do 300RUM. I try to put the flame in exactly the same place each time and count to six. Seven when doing the 300RUM.

[The Double D]

Yep 1stShirt and Roaddog, that technique should work just fine for little cases like RUUM. On large cases like I use, if you don't rotate the cases you will get a non uniform anneal or burn, it will be softer on one side than on other

Back in old days when I was shooting lots and lots of 30 Herrett and 7 TCU I annealed by holding case in my fingers and it worked just fine. No complaints, beyond an occasional blister on my fingers. The brass was just fine

I have more experience now and from the experience of actually doing it, I can tell you in all sincerity, the spinning tool method and tempilaq is a fast and much more consistent and uniform method of annealing.

Here is Ken Howells wonderful article on the subject. http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/jun96cases.html

If you are annealing necks you want to paint the outside of the case with tempilaq below the shoulder. Crayon will melt and paint will turn black when 650 degrees is reached. The neck temperature will be higher. In low light you will see the cherry red. In bright light you won't see anything

[roaddog1m]

I guess that's the other thing, weather I spin them in my cordless drill or just use my fingers, I always pull the shades down and turn down the lights.

DD, what the heck are you loading that makes a 300RUM "little"? lol I don't have any big bangers really, the 300RUM is for a friend I inherited from my Dad. (I inherited my Dads hunting buddies when he died)

[Boz330]

I guess that's the other thing, weather I spin them in my cordless drill or just use my fingers, I always pull the shades down and turn down the lights.

DD, what the heck are you loading that makes a 300RUM "little"? lol I don't have any big bangers really, the 300RUM is for a friend I inherited from my Dad. (I inherited my Dads hunting buddies when he died)

DD loads 577-450, basically a 58cal case necked down to 45cal. They can be a challenge.

Bob

[The Double D]

Bob is right, 577/450 Martini. If I buy Standard brass they run about $4-$5 a case. If I make them for 24 gauge shot gun cases they are about a buck a case.

I just did 100 rounds of Westley Richards No. 1 Carbine. This case is made from 50/90 brass and is shortened to 1 1/2" then necked to 45. Using the turning tool is so quick and easy. Once you use it on these big cases you won't use anything else, it is so quick and easy and gives a much more uniform result. Try it.

10-12 years ago I did 500 .219 Donaldson Wasp cases. I wish had the turning tool back them.

[roaddog1m]

Wow! I thought my 6-06AI was a wildcat! That must be quit a boomer!

[The Double D]

I did my share of wildcatting.

I haved hunted extensively with my 338-06 Ackley and missed a lot of steel animals with my 7 TCU and 30 Herrett. The 219 Donaldson wasp has killed a lot of a prairie dogs, gophers, woodchuck and rock chucks. I can't count high enough to say how many gophers my 218 Mashburn and 22K hornets have killed. The Mashburn Bee went to Africa with me and killed Guinea fowl, small game and a Springbok. My 338/308 ACK went Africa also and I used it to take a number of animals. (now the 338/308 would be called the .338 Federal ACK.)

I can tell you from making all these different cases that annealing is critical and the spinning tool would have made the job easier.