Can a cartridge not like you?

[Thumbcocker]

I have been contemplating whether or not a cartridge can take a dislike to a person. In my case I think the .45 colt can't stand me. I have long been partial to the idea of a fat boolit at 900 fps. moseying along to do what needs doing. Alas it is not to be.

I have had cylinders reamed, bought moulds, tried .452 and .454 boolits, and a host of powders. I am looking for fairey dust for case filler. All to no avail. The acp cylinders shoot like champs the colt cylinders can be tweaked up to mediocre on a good day. I am not sure what I did to create the animosity displayed by the .45 colt but it is not my friend. Maybe it is jelous of my long friendship with .44's.

.44's just seem to like me. Magnums and specials respond to load development and shoot better than I can over a wide velocity range and with different boolits. They like me and I like them. I have tried to keep an open mind with the .45 colt and treat it with respect but my respect is not reciprocated.

I think it may be time to come to terms with the fact that the colt and I will have to agree to disagree and cuddle up with a model 24 or a Bisley. Some things were neve meant to be.

[Uncle R.]

<SNICKER>
I don't know if a cartridge can take a dislike to you - but I sure can't argue with your conclusions that 45 ACP and 44 magnum are user-friendly cartridges. I like 'em both very much in revolvers. My own personal "Can't get it better than mediocre" cartridge has been the .44-40. I suspect that thin case walls and blackpowder design features are involved in my chronic troubles.

[btroj]

I feel your pain. I have had guns that were way more work than should be required to get them to shoot.
To me this is part of the challenge. I hate to lose. I had troubles with my Blackhawk in 45 Colt until I polished the throats to .452. Now it seems to like almost anything.
I am fighting a Marlin 1894c in 357. Accuracy absolutely sucks at 25 yards, 6 to 8 inch groups! It does a bit better with magnum cases but not a lot. I consider it a work in progress. I WILL win.

Keep your chin up. Keep trying different things. It will eventually like something. Or just sell it off and start over with a new gun.

Good luck.

Brad

[mooman76]

For me it is 7mm Mauser. Been having trouble with a couple with oversized bores. One of them is starting to come around though but the other won't even shoot jacketed worth a darn. I was having trouble with 7.62x38 also but with a switch to the right bullet, it's shooting much better.

[RobS]

Thumbcocker:
I have to say that some calibers are more of PITA to shoot cast from vs others but I wouldn't consider the 45 colt one of those cartridges. There are many 45 colt revolvers out there that are all over the place regarding dimensions and this is probably the largest contributing factor to the hardship associated with keeping barrels from leading and finding acceptable accuracy.

What exactly are you experiencing with your 45 colt revolver that is making your days less than desirable? Are you having leading issues, poor accuracy, bullet fit issues, and are you having problems with just one revolver or several in this caliber? If you want to provide a bit more info regarding your revolver's specifics i.e. bore/groove diameters, cylinder throats diameters, firearm brand/name, if you've checked for tight spots in the barrel, and if leading………where in the barrel etc. We all might be able to troubleshoot things for you with some more info.

[Blammer]

270's, I just can't stand them.

does that count? :)

[looseprojectile]

Over the last fifty some years I have had quite a few .45 Colt caliber guns.
I have the same feelings as you. Too many issues that are not easily accounted for. Seems that the parameters for loadings are quite narrow.
That is the only cartridge that has ever made me feel that way. Well maybe the
.218 Bee did a little. I really like the single actions and near half are .45 Colt.
So at this point only half of the single actions are liable to be owned by me.
I have loaded some very accurate loads for the .45 Colt But those were not the loads that I wanted to shoot, they were right on maximum for the gun.
Most other cartridges are so easy to load for that I don't even own a .45 Colt now. Most any load in 38, .357, 45 auto, and .44 mag shoot good for me.
I sold the .45 Colt Rossi rifle and the Taurus Thunderer and got a .44 magnum Rossi and went on with my life[smilie=p:.
I do have a friend that has worked with the .45 Colt in the Ruger guns and he does well and loves them. He just bought a new .45 Colt Redhawk.
I feel way better without one in the house.

Life is good

[oldhickory]

If you're shooting a Ruger,try 9.5gr of Unique under just about anything cast.

[Thumbcocker]

The guns are two Rugers. One is a 5.5 inch stainless Bisley convertible. I bought it as a compaion to my .44 Stainless bisley that is probably my favorite handgun. It has been back to Ruger for repair (tght spot) after I had the cylinders reamed to .4525. I have tried the lee 255, the RCBS 270, and the group buy 255 Keith. Unique, red dot, Herco, and tight group. Still get leading in the forcing cone. Accuracy is mediocre. When I work with a handgun I try to shoot it pretty much exclusivly and dry fire the snot out of it. With Lyman 452460's and 6.0 of 231 in acp cases this gun shoots very well but who wants and heavy 45 acp single action? The gun also has a bowen rear sight and a belt mountain pin.

The second one is a 4 5/8" blackhawk convertable with an alloy frame. It has an excellent balance and I thought it would make a good woods gun with the compromise of portability and large caliber. Cylinders reamed to .4525 no tight spot that I can detect. Same loads same result although 9.0 of herco with the group buy Keiths did show some promise. I know that many people only get good reslults with hot loads in Ruger .45 colts. I don't want to run them hot, just 850-900 is what I am shooting for.

It is frustrating because I have the stainless Bisley .44 and a 4 5/8" Blackhawk .44 that are far more accurate than I can shoot and are not especially fussy about loads or projectiles. For all intents and purposes the same guns as the .45's. They give good to outstanding accuracy over a wide power range. The 4 5/8 is one of the most consistent shooters I have; not always a tack driver but always in the ball park and occasionaly really accurate. Almost never bad performance. My 5.5" .44 special is scary accurate with Skeeters load. It is starting to look like things .44 are just more user friendly. I also notice that a load that works in one .44 is far more likely to work in another .44.

Btroj; I have had nothing but good luck with a Marlin .357. Go figure.

[NickSS]

I personally like the 45 colt having several revolvers and lever action rifles in the caliber. Mine shoot as well as I can hold them so I am happy. I like a load of 9 gr of Unique and a 250 gr round flat point bullet or a the same charge with a 200 gr RF bullet. I load hotter loads in my lever actions for hunting purposes but mostly shoot the same loads in both handgun and rifle. I will be the first to admit that the 44 mag is an easier cartridge to get accuracy out of for some reason that escapes me but my rifles shoot into 3 inches or under at 100 yards with my 45 colt loads and my Uberti revolvers shoot into 3 inches or less at 50 yards from a rest. This is good enough for my needs.

[buck1]

I have never had a 45LC that did not like unique. If not for unique I wouldnt even shoot the 45.

[*Paladin*]

If you're shooting a Ruger,try 9.5gr of Unique under just about anything cast.

I've had great luck w/ my 230's (50/50 alloy) and 8.5 gr of Unique in a .45 Bisley Vaquero. Accurate and no leading whatsoever. Unique is good stuff....

[Smoke-um if you got-um]

220 Swift has kicked my tail every time I've tried to to make one shoot. I've had several 22-250's that shot like their butt was on fire with very little effort but I just can't seem to get any Swift I've loaded for much under an inch and a quarter. Perhaps you have a point about certain calibers just not liking you.

Mike

[looseprojectile]

my shooting partner and I determined that UNIQUE is THE .45 Colt powder.
Works wonderfully in a .45 auto. That is all.
2400 is the .357 and .44 powder and it still works.

Life is good

[Hardcast416taylor]

I would have to ask what lead alloy are you using, what lube and sizer sizing die. My 5.5" convertable is a fine shooter with either cylinder. My 7 1/2" BH likes .452" sized RCBS 255 gr. swc using Lars 50/50 lube with a CCI std. primer igniting 6.3 gr. Red Dot, this load gives me in the 900 +/- fps range and I`ve used it for many years. The convertable also shoots this load well. I use a 50/50 alloy for most shooting, but use WC wheel weights for more intense conversations of a serious nature.Robert

[buck1]

I like ACWW+2% tin, sized to .452 as a rule . Of cource every gun is a rule to itself , but that works 98% of any .45s I have had.....Buck

[44man]

There is no difference in the .44 and .45 as far as accuracy and they work up easy. I suspect other problems like twist rates, boolits, alloy and velocity.
Remember the Ruger .45 Colt has a 1 in 16" twist. I would say that the loads must be worked for the boolits of choice across the board for the powder used. Stop looking for just one velocity and powder charge. Find what the gun likes and leave the chronograph at home. You could be 75 fps OFF!

[Thumbcocker]

Alloy is acww lube is 50/50 bees wax and lithium grease. Have not chronographed anything, I always load for accuracy first. The point I was trying to make is that I am not seeking magnum performance from the .45 colt cartridge.

[MT Gianni]

I have had guns that didn't like me but so far no cartridges that nothing worked in.

[August]

Yes, I can relate to all this.

I was going over all the bumps with "antique" cartridges and things were <eventually> sorted out with the 45-70, 38-40, 45 acp, 45 Long Colt (sorry, but it did eventually work), then I went one step too far and took on the 38-55. That darned cartridge put me in a blue funk for about a year before I had the sense to move on to greener pastures.

All the different chamber dimensions, brass dimensions, bullet dimension finally got sorted out. (they really make two, or three, different rounds that a called "38-55"). But, after all that work with chambers and throats and bullets and sizer collets, I finally realized I couldn't get enough black powder in the damned thing to fly bullets at the distances I wanted to shoot it at in the first place.

Lots of guys like the 38-55. But, it doesn't like me.

[Three44s]

You mentioned forcing cone ............ I'd adress that first.

Second, I'd buy the book from Beartooth bullets ....... well worth the 15 bucks postage paid it costs.

Three 44s

[44man]

You mentioned forcing cone ............ I'd adress that first.

Second, I'd buy the book from Beartooth bullets ....... well worth the 15 bucks postage paid it costs.

Three 44s
Might be the ticket.
I was not talking magnum performance unless heavy boolits are used.
Light boolits just might have to be shot SLOWER because of the fast twist.
It is a challenge of course but never ignore boolit stability. Maybe 750 fps is better then 800.
I shoot a lot of 255 gr boolits with 7 gr of Unique and they are very nice. I don't know how fast they are.
I know I have a reputation for heavy boolit, hunting and long range loads but that is not the total story.

[1hole]

"Can a cartridge not like you? "

Certainly, it's common, ditto for rifles/pistols. In fact it's so common there's a scientific law of physics for it; "The Law of the Perversity of Inanimate Objects", which itself is an extension of "Murphy's Law."

[45nut]

I think it's the lack of a .45 in your username that jinxes you, but for your own sanity you should pack up all the brass, molds, heck even the guns and send them to me for rehab.
I should have them several years for proper conditioning ......................

[Thumbcocker]

(Sniff sniff writing with a keyboard choked with emotion)

Dang Ken the guys are right you are the best. You would sacrafice years of your time to help guns you never even met through the agnoizing process of rehab. Got to find some kleenex now.

[45nut]

on the other hand... 45Thumbcocker does have a nice ring to it. :P

[Char-Gar]

My thoughts on the subject at hand..

1. Cartridges are inanimate object with no feelings nor animus toward you.
2. It is time to look at your expectations and see if they are in line with reality.
3. The 45 Colt round can be a cranky ol soul, compared to the 44 Magnum which is very tractable.

Ruger sixguns are cheap sixguns and often that shows up in accuracy potential. Sometimes it does not.

[klcarroll]

Well, .....If any of you have something in .455 Webley that is causing you grief; ......Just let me know!! ......I'll be happy to serve as a "Half-Way-House" in it's rehabilitation!!


:bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:


Kent

[AZ-Stew]

I own one .45 Colt revolver (Ruger) and one .44 Special (S&W, 1980's vintage) and neither is inclined toward accuracy. Makes me wonder whether some gun writers have all their marbles.

Now, the .45 Colt Winchester M-94 carbine I have, while not a tack driver, is reasonably accurate and would make a Cracker Jack deer rifle in the SE U.S.

I have several S&W .44 Magnums and have had two S&W .41 Magnums, with a third in the wings waiting for a trip to the range, that have been VERY accurate. A number of years ago, before my essential tremor (look it up) began to rear its ugly head, I was able to hit a 12x18 steel plate 10 out of 10, offhand, at 100 yards with my "Dirty Harry" era .44 Magnum. The .41s are, in my experience slightly more accurate. I SERIOUSLY doubt that I could replicate the feat with either the .45 Colt or .44 Special. Don't know whether it's the gun or cartridge.

.22-250s have driven me nuts. I finally whipped one into shape, then stupidly sold it. The other sits waiting in my safe until I decide to spend some time working with it. First efforts weren't promising, but it may come around.

.25-06s have been bad and good. The Ruger 77 heavy barrel I bought in the mid 70s took a LOT of work and was eventually sold to buy a Remington 700 sporter barrel that out shot the Ruger out of the box and, with some load development, became an EXCELLENT shooter.

Are there bad cartridges, or bad guns that shoot them? I certainly don't know. I do believe that unless you can afford to spend a lot of time, effort and components on getting a particular firearm to shoot for you, you're money ahead to sell it to someone else and find a gun that will shoot for you.

Regards,

Stew

[Cherokee]

The only 45 Colt that gave me accuracy problems was a beautiful S&W 25 8". All my Rugers and Colt copies have shoot fine with my loads, and my lever guns as well.

[MT Gianni]

I had a 6 1/2" 624 Smith that I could not get to group well. My 5" Redhawk bettered it with slow or fast 44 special loads and was chambered in 44 Mag as well. The Smith went down the road. My 44 spl Ruger is as good grouping a gun as any I own. I think some cartridges are harder to get to group well but generally it's the gun.

[Dannix]

220 Swift has kicked my tail every time I've tried to to make one shoot. I've had several 22-250's that shot like their butt was on fire with very little effort but I just can't seem to get any Swift I've loaded for much under an inch and a quarter. Perhaps you have a point about certain calibers just not liking you.

Mike

I immediately thought if this:
http://www.stevespages.com/page8.htm

Perhaps a different primer is the answer?


(Sniff sniff writing with a keyboard choked with emotion)

Dang Ken the guys are right you are the best. You would sacrafice years of your time to help guns you never even met through the agnoizing process of rehab. Got to find some kleenex now.:bigsmyl2:

[Bret4207]

You've reamed both cylinder to .4525. Any idea what the barrel dimensions are?