1:48 Twist

[brad925]

I have have been told that the 1:48 twist is not good for anything. Supposedly it doesnt shoot either PRB or conicals very well. Just wondering if there is any truth to this and if there is why are barrels with this twist still being produced if they are as poor as i have been told.

[hylander]

Had a TC Hawkin and a GM 50 cal, both 1:48
Both shot RB just fine
I never had any luck with Sabots or Conicals
But since I only shoot RB now, I have switched to a Lyman Great Plains with
1:62 and it is a Tack Driver ;-)

[405]

Hmm. I kinda agree with northmn's post about twists, rifling, etc.

If I could pick a twist for patched roundball it would likely be more in the 60-70" twist range. Interesting to note that most all the minie bores have twist's that slow or even slower. I've shot 50 cal soft alloy solid base conicals in 28" twist bores and they showed signs of stripping the lands particularly if pushed hard.

So to answer your question about why other's say, "48 inch twist not good for anything".... I think they could either be traditional roundball shooters who prefer much slower twists or super SS/plastic, raygun, sabot spitting inline shooters convinced about the 28" or faster twist bores.

I've owned or shot maybe a dozen different T/C 48" twist rifles in the past in both 45 and 50 cal. Until recently, I hadn't owned a T/C ML in 20 years... having sold or traded them all since my first one in the late 60s. Just picked up an early factory T/C Hawken 45 cal for low $. Looks practically unfired. Cleaned up the lock inletting and trued up the tang/hooked breech mating surfaces. I believe it has a Sharon barrel that T/C used on earlier production guns. It has a 48" twist bore. I put T/C aperture tang rear and T/C blade front sights on it. Shot some patched roundballs through it last week. The last group I shot was .59" @ 50 yds.

Oh, for what it's worth as to the bore specs of this early T/C 45 cal ... and I would imagine most of them were similar.
Bore---- .450
Groove- .462

[357maximum]

1 in 48 twists and LIGHT conicals work great. The 250 Lee R.E.A.L and the BRP maxihunter clone are both very accurate in my 1 in 48's. I prefer the BRP version as lube stays in the loobgrooves better but I would not hesitate to kill a deer at 120 yards or so with either one of them in my open sighted rifles. I do run a 1/8 lubed felt under both boolits as it helped both with accuracy and with bore condition. I have a recycled CVA barrel in 1 in 48 that has been made into an underhammer with a peepsight installed. It shoots better than I do with both conicals listed. 90 gr 3F, 1 lubed felt, either boolit and it is lights out for bambi.

[oldhickory]

Parker-Hale rifled their .577 Enfield 2 banders and musketoons 1:48 and they have been shooting 1 hole groups from the bench and winning competitions world wide. 1:48 is a very popular twist in .577-.58 with Burton, (Minie) boolits. It works. Ask Bob Hoyt how many barrels he rifles 1:48 for N-SSA competition using Burton boolits. Guess it depends on caliber and projectile.

[northmn]

Twists differ by caliber also. A 1-48 twist in a 58 has a different angle of twist than in a 50. Its the same as if you looked at an angle with a rise of .5 at 4 feet as compared to one with a rise of .58 at 4 feet. 40's on down come with a 1-48 twist as they are often considered squirrel rifles, but due to their smaller bore many take pretty heavy charges per ball weight to give accuracy. In the medium bores like the 45 and 50 the 1-48 is still a pretty fair twist, but ahve had a reputation of being more sensitive to load variations. they have been made in bench guns even. A round ball barrel ideally will have a rifling that is about .010 or deeper as compared to a bullet gun of .005. Also some like narrower lands as compared to the grooves to handle the fouling, or at least equal in width. One barrel company is now offering round bottomed rifling whcih some claim great things for. Mostly slower twists for round ball have gotten popular because the guns get used on target ranges and slower twists may offer less need for wiping. The gain twist was used in some rifled muskets to assist in loading and fouling. When I shot Numrich barrels which had a shallower rifling I noticed that they wanted a tight combination. The Douglas barrels were less "fussy". I have seen TC rifles shoot very well with RB. As stated the slugs may have to be the shorter ones. Unless bullets are used out of very specialized rifles like the Gibbs, round ball are generally more accurate. And the Gibbs is only more accurate at longer range where round ball lose their momentum.

DP

[Red River Rick]

1 - 48" was the standard twist for the tens of thousands of late model Snider-Enfields that the were made. I don't think the British would have choosen that rate of twist if it won't have stabilized the bullet that it was intented for.

I don't know were you got your info from, but your source needs to upgrade their's.

RRR

[bubba.50]

when i could see i could shoot cloverleafs all day with either prb's or maxi's at 75yds. even now i can get about an inch at 50yds. for what it's worth, bubba.

[NickSS]

I have a book on J&S Hawken rifles made during the 19th century. I was quite surprised when I learned that almost all of them were rifled with a 1 in 48 twist and they were also choke bored with a constriction in the barrel about three inches back from the muzzle then the last three inches were funneled out to allow for ramming a patched ball without using a short starter. The constriction or choke was put in by hand lapping the finished bore to that shape after rifleing. Also as far as minni rifles go the British and Americans found the same thing out. Rifles of 58 or 577 caliber shot more accurately in general than did twists of 1 in 72 or 1 in 78 that were used for rifled muskets. They also found out that at longer ranges the faster 1 in 48 twist also drifted further than the slower twists. The American army rifled everything with a 1 in 72 twist which was less accurate but drifted less at longer ranges due to the rifling centrifugal forces. The Brits rifled there three band rifled muskets with a 1 in 78 twist for the same reason, however, the rifled their two band rifles which were mostly used by the Navy with the 1 in 48 twist. The Confederates when looking for weapons to issue to their sharpshooter battalions tested all the weapons they had for accuracy. They found that the two band enfield was the most accurate so issued them to all of their sharpshooters that they could not supply the even more accurate Whitworths to.

I have shot thousands of RB through 1 in 48 bores in calibers from 45 to 58 caliber with excellent accuracy. The same rifles also shot either the TC Maxi Ball or Maxi hunters equally well. I am talking about groups of three inches at 100 yards with open sights (about as good as I can shoot. I also have had good luck with twist rates of 1 in 60 to 1 in 72 with round balls especially with higher charged loads. Today the only MLs I hunt with are a TC New Englander I have had for 20 years. It will shoot a group of 3 inches using Hoddons great plains bullets with 90 gr of FFG. My other hunting rifle is a Parker Hale Musketoon that I love as it is light well ballanced and shoots both round balls and minni bullets about equally well. I generally load either projectile with 60 gr of FFG when hunting. As you can see I do not believer in more power loads.

[northmn]

Twist rates for original patched RB guns also varied but were faster than some of todays. A twist of one in four feet or 1-48 was popular as mentioned about the Hawkens. I again go back to the nature of the rifling. If you look at original rifling it was pretty deep.

DP