John Ross here...

[John Ross]

I'm new here (joined 5 years ago at someone's request for a question but lost track) and have a few questions.

I focus on the .500 S&W Magnum (some of you may have heard of me) and am interested in molds for that caliber.

Has anyone had Lee make some 6-cavity molds for the .500? They say they can make a 6-cavity for any bullet up to 1" long and .52 caliber. This would be 400-450 grains, depending on nose shape, in the .500.

If so, how did the molds turn out? I'm not too worried about overheating as I cast with up to 7 molds at a time.

I would be interested in getting some .500 molds made in my designs with as many cavities as possible(from anyone, not just Lee). Dan's molds are great but limited to 2 cavities. Check out the pictures below and you'll see why I like gang molds...

Casting room

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn302/JohnRoss_07/021220112776.jpg

Day's work...

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn302/JohnRoss_07/021220112774.jpg

Loading area. Dillon 1050 at left is .500 S&W only.

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn302/JohnRoss_07/021220112773.jpg

[45nut]

can you supply the drawings? If so,, that is a huge step forward and this is the right place to start.
I would venture we have a few that are more than capable of taking this on.

Any idea when I can get a few paperback copies of your book?

[John Ross]

All my designs have been created with Dan's design page. I like lots of thin grease grooves but he now limits the groove-to-band ratio to .7 because people kept trying to have him make tumble lube bullets.

Paperback copies are coming, there's a production holdup that's being addressed right now.

[45nut]

If you can do a screenshot ,, then we can probably make it work.

[John Ross]

If you can do a screenshot ,, then we can probably make it work.

How do you do a screen shot, other than using a camera?

[45nut]

alt=printscreen will copy the active window,, then paste it into paint and save as a .jpg

[targetshootr]

How can you find anything in a shop so organized. It's disgraceful.

[timbuck]

I think you will have plenty of interest here.
So many options now. A great time to be a cast booliteer.

[500bfrman]

I would think al nelson of NOE molds could make a five cavity.

[John Ross]

alt=printscreen will copy the active window,, then paste it into paint and save as a .jpg

I can't seem to figure out how to do this. I have an "ALT" key and a "PrtScn" key, but when I push them together, nothing happens. I'll use Google to see if I can find an answer.

Also I don't think I have MSPaint.

I didn't realize I was quite this computer-illiterate...

[357 Voodoo]

MSpaint can be found in start, all programs, accessories, paint. with paint open press "Ctrl-v" and the image will be pasted into paint.

[69daytona]

We have ran a few different designs for the 500 in 6 cavity, the 465gr keith style from Lee in a six cavity and a 400gr pointed nose 4 cavity by NOE. Miha makes some great molds and will do a six cavity solid for the 500. He is just finishing our 700gr Cramer 2 cavity mold HP/FP. also the Cramer 440gr HP/FP 2 cavity brass mold. Most people are wanting HP options which will rule out anything larger than a 2 cavity.
For the price and quality you couldnt go wrong with MiHec (Miha) or NOE. by the way I enjoyed your write ups on the S&W 500.
If you need any help getting your designs drawn up just ask there are some people here that are willing to help.
Im trying to get a 400gr button nose wadcutter done now and a 600gr for the 500. You might want to check out some of the molds that have been made for the 500 in the last 3 years here on this site.

[bdutro]

Daytona is right John, Mihec will make you throw rocks at a Lee mold.

[John Ross]

Here's one I'd like to see in a 4-Cavity RG Hollowpoint mold I saw NOE show. I'd like the hollowboint pin to be as big as possible at the nose and tapering to a point about .600" from the front of the bullet. Massive expansion at low velocity.

Comments?

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn302/JohnRoss_07/500hugeHP.jpg

[SwedeNelson]

Something to look at:
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/1111-144502500GrLFN.jpg

We would offer a 4 cavity using our 5 cavity block.

Swede Nelson

[Spartacus]

We would offer a 4 cavity using our 5 cavity block.

Swede Nelson

I would be up for that.

[happy7]

John,

I have at least 4 Lee six cavity molds for the 500 from group buys I and others have run. They are fine, but keeping them cool is a challenge. It can be done, but it is a bit of a learning curve. Also, on heavier bullets the molds have to be emptied upside down to keep the bullets from being damaged by the opposite mold half. The NOE 4 cavity in five cavity blocks are better.

If it interests you, I could send you samples of the bullets from the Lee molds.

[timbuck]

Maybe one more mold.

[Blake Stephenson]

Looks good to me. I would buy one.

Blake

[nicholst55]

MSpaint can be found in start, all programs, accessories, paint. with paint open press "Ctrl-v" and the image will be pasted into paint.

That's why I L-O-V-E this forum! I learn something new every time I come here!

I sure wish that Al Gore had invented the Internet 20 years earlier; I'd be one smart feller by now... :rolleyes:

[wilddog45]

A Ross design 500gr would suit me fine also.

[Porterhouse]

Watching this one.
I would like some modifications; 1) A bit shorter nose, like 0.680" to be safe from creeping. 2) A bit bigger bore rider diameter, 0.495" or so. 3) Wider front driving band. I think the cylinder of M500s can take 0.180" or wider. 4) Yes, big hollow cavity!

[69daytona]

The reason for the long nose is to give more case capacity so it can be driven faster for a heavy boolit. John will correct me if im wrong, Its like the long nose 600, I made it that way to give more case capacity.
It s up to you and John to work out the rest of the details but I like the boolit the way it is.

It is being drawn up like John first designed it and as a Gas check both with large deep HP in round and Penta.

[happy7]

It is being drawn up like John first designed it and as a Gas check both with large deep HP in round and Penta.

You mean for Mihec? Just throwing in my 2 cents, but I would rather see NOE do it and then we can have the oversize blocks and more cavities (four instead of two). You know, a few hollowpoint 500s are nice, but I don't need (or want) every bullet hollowpointed. I mean with NOE, for less money, we get a four cavity mold, than we would get from Mihec two cavity. Granted, the Mihec one, as a hollowpoint, is good value, but like I said, I don't want the hollowpoint. Of course, those wanting the hollowpoint, can have it with NOE, including a 4 cavity. Now, if this is going to be a Mihec four cavity, that is probably ok, and I will order a solid. I just would like to see bigger blocks.

[DukeInFlorida]

Update: Here's a video of John Ross, ending one of his weapons classes:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3397839944322394951&hl=en#

John, you are one cool dude!

----------------------------

I'm not crazy at all about the NOE way of making HP's, but LOVE the way Miha does them.

Such a HUGE boolit would be a bear on my old arms (weight) in a four cavity anyways. Two cavities would be fine for me.

I almost insist on gas checks for the .500 S&W Magnum bullets. Just got that Keith style in, but really like how gas checks help keep the gun running great. Properly alloyed, properly lubed, properly sized, and gas checked, I ran 1,000 rounds down the pipe on my 500 Magnum, without cleaning...... and she still ran like a fine Swiss watch. Not a microscopic shed of lead in the bore after all that firing.

[happy7]

I understand that some people shy away from heavy molds. That is a valid point for some people. I also prefer the Mihec hollowpointing over the RG system. However, if we back up a bit on the thread, the OP already had designed the mold on MM software, where you can order a two cavity mold. His desire was for more cavities and HP. That was the point of posting a thread here. He can address better than I if he will be happy with reverting back to a two cavity mold, but I share his love of lots of cavities.

[Porterhouse]

Can Mihec cut 4 cavities with bigger block if we have enough people to sign up?

[69daytona]

Yes he can, he doesnt really want to because of the extra cost of shipping but if that is what everyone would want then that is what he will do, Nothing against NOE but I find Miha's Cramer mold much eaiser to work with than the RG4 molds but both produce great boolits.
I am sure I just need to work with my RG4 mold more.

[timbuck]

Here's one I'd like to see in a 4-Cavity RG Hollowpoint mold I saw NOE show. I'd like the hollowboint pin to be as big as possible at the nose and tapering to a point about .600" from the front of the bullet. Massive expansion at low velocity./COLOR]


Might be because it was hijacked by others not wanting what JR wanted.
Above is what JR posted at the begining.

[John Ross]

Here's one I'd like to see in a 4-Cavity RG Hollowpoint mold I saw NOE show. I'd like the hollowpoint pin to be as big as possible at the nose and tapering to a point about .600" from the front of the bullet. Massive expansion at low velocity./COLOR]


Might be because it was hijacked by others not wanting what JR wanted.
Above is what JR posted at the beginning.

Correct. And I now realize I maybe should have posted some screen shots of the molds I want in a differently labeled thread, like "Long nose .500 molds I want" or somesuch. Ken also says I need to do a more thorough introduction of myself here, so I'm working on that.

Anyway, here are my thoughts on .500 bullets:

All my designs use a .700" nose length for maximum net case capacity for any given bullet weight/shape. That's my trademark, so to speak, and I'd like to keep it that way. All my designs have so far been plain base. That was originally due to there being no .500" gas checks when I first started having molds made, but there are other reasons that are relevant.

In a lighter bullet like the 400 grain semi-pointed, Dan's program won't let you design a gas check design with a shank that short, around .200", for max capacity. Most loads I shoot on a high-volume basis are slow enough (1300-1400FPS) to not need gas checks, and for the real thunderbolts at 2000+, you can use a LDPE wad under the bullet. This saves adding a nickel to the cost of every bullet. When you shoot a lot, a nickel extra per shot adds up, not to mention the extra time.

I like lots of thin lube grooves. My theory (chime in if you disagree) is that it spreads the lube more evenly over the bearing surface and is more effective than one big deep groove. Also bullets drop from the mold more easily than a true Keith bullet with a square cornered groove. (after casting over 200,000 bullets in 8-cavity H&G 503 molds, I think I'm qualified to say this.) Last of all, you waste a bit less lube and when you have a pile of lubed bullets, less of it gets where it shouldn't.

Kent Lomont scoped one of my 5" 500s I designed and from a sandbag rest, in front of witnesses, put 50 straight shots on an oil drum at a measured 700 (not a typo--seven hundred) yards. This was with my 450 grain Long Range design bullet at about 1400 FPS. See below:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn302/JohnRoss_07/450grainlongrange.jpg

Dan USED to let you specify a GTB value (Groove to Band) of as little as .3 or .4. This gives more, thinner grooves.

Here's the 500 grain version:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn302/JohnRoss_07/500GrainLongRange.jpg

In 550 grain:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn302/JohnRoss_07/550grainLongRange.jpg

600 grain:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn302/JohnRoss_07/600grainLongRange.jpg

And last of all, 650 grain:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn302/JohnRoss_07/650grainlongrange.jpg

I'd like molds for all of these, with as many cavities as possible. Casting with two cavity molds is tedious.

Comments welcome.

[John Ross]

Hope I didn't confuse you with the pics of long range designs. Back to the original massive HP design, which I like to call the "Alley Cleaner." Some comments:

I have been told that the Penta HP design is superior to the normal type. Comments?

I HAD been told that the NOE 4-cav RG4 design is easy to cast with. Now some seem to be saying the MiHec Cramer is much better, in terms of ease of use. I have seen or tried neither. Comments?

I, too, don't need EVERY bullet hollowpointed except in this case I have been getting a lot of interest in the .500 as an SD round and I may start selling these bullets. I don't intend to become a full time commercial caster but I do want to do things to promote the S&W .500. It fits with some of my plans for the future...

So let's get back to discussing the Alley Cleaner design. I'd like a bullet about .900" long with only .200" shank in the case. With the giant hollowpoint the weight should be about 430 I think. The goal here is not only massive expansion at any velocity, but massive INTIMIDATION in a SD situation. The best way to win a gunfight is to not be in one. More than one of my students has drawn his pocket pistol (Kel-Tec, etc.) on an armed robber and been ignored. Less likely to happen with those giant hollowpoints at the front of the cylinder staring him in the face.

Porterhouse, .700" nose gives best case capacity and you INSTANTLY see if you have sufficient neck tension and crimp. If you don't, then you correct it and start loading proper ammo. Why do you want bigger/longer front band and bore ride?

[Porterhouse]

JR,
Let me explain where I'm coming from. I'm one of the early M500 owners who actually designed/experimented bullets FOLLOWING your suggestion and this was a year or so after M500s became available. Like you, I wanted as much case capacity and maximize the nose length but being little conservative, I went mine with 0.680" nose with minimum inside case length (0.3" or so. I designed a couple of them). This was fine with new cases(Starline) but with cases that are used several times, I observed little bullet creep. I have never had a gun tied up caused by this and probably okay had I went with 0.700". We are talking about only 0.02" difference here. I just thought the design should be little safe side since this for a group buy with unknown number of casters, all kinds of alloy hardness, and all kinds of loading techniques.
The reason for the bigger bore rider & bigger front driving band is, to minimize skidding. I have recovered many bullets that were shot from your 5" JR special with 1-10" twist and they all show significant amount of skidding in front. These includs above mentioned long nose BR design, LFN, WFN, and some jacketed like Hornady, Sierra, Barnes all capper. They all show some skidding but it appears to be, simply state, bigger/wider the front band is, smaller the amount of skidding. So the idea is to make the bore ride section bigger and let it act more like "semi front driving band" or "skidder". Then big, actual front driving band section follows, engage with rifling more securely. If we are looking for maximum expansion with big hollow point, then soft alloy is called for and this skidding may become bigger issue, if you are concerned about accuracy. Personally, I have never been able to prove the advantage of bore ride design for increasing accuracy over tangential nose design. It however allows more case capacity without creating chambering difficulty for revolvers and to me, that is about it. Then why not make it bigger, just small enough to fit in chamber throats? The bigger nose and driving band are also beneficial for minimizing inside case volume, the way you like. But since you must have shot tens of thousands of the bullets you originally designed with great success, all of my concerns may be meaningless. Yeah, I tend to think too much when it comes to 500s as I love them so much!
I realize you want to accomplish two things in one mold; FP for maximum power & HP for maximum expansion. I don't have enough experience with casting HP but hard to imagine there will be better maker than Mihec. He's molds are, in my opinion, almost revolution in bullet casting...

[John Ross]

Porterhouse, good info. Many view me as the go-to guy on .500 loading but you must realize I haven't tested EVERY possible permutation! I'll rethink the front band/Bore ride dimension.

Thanks again.

[Spartacus]

Most loads I shoot on a high-volume basis are slow enough (1300-1400FPS) to not need gas checks, and for the real thunderbolts at 2000+, you can use a LDPE wad under the bullet. This saves adding a nickel to the cost of every bullet. When you shoot a lot, a nickel extra per shot adds up, not to mention the extra time.

John, I assume you make your own LDPE gas checks with a punch. What material do you make them from?

[John Ross]

John, I assume you make your own LDPE gas checks with a punch. What material do you make them from?

Sheets .030" or .060" thick I get from a contractor friend. Not sure where he gets them.

[happy7]

John,

I see a possiblity here. Let me run it by you. It looks like the nose on the above examples is virtually the same on all of them. This means that several different designs should be able to be made from the same tooling by just running it a lube groove deeper. That way, all designs could be ordered on the same group buy. It might mean altering the lube grooves a little. This would mean that you could buy a mold of all your designs only running one group buy. Otherwise, they would spread out over the next year or two I would think if we ran them one at a time. NOE is very open to doing this type of thing, and has done it in the past.

I LIKE NOE's molds for the 500. At my request Al redesigned his five cavity blocks for four cavities. Having the extra meat per cavity really helps the casting, in my opinion. However, NOE is very flexible. If you wanted the five cavities, I believe you can have that as well.
I have done a number of these group buys, and if you would like, I would be happy to set it up with NOE and get them to produce a drawing for your approval. After that we could get a thread started, so we can get this thing going.

Meanwhile, 69daytona, who has also done a number of these group buys, can get the ball rolling with Mihec on the WFN 500 you proposed first. That one will probably take a while before it comes up on Mihecs list as he is backlogged considerably at the moment. Mihec can do a four cavity. That is what I would like to see. But I do see how others would like a two cavity. Perhaps Mihec can be convinced to offer it both ways, but he never has, and I know for a fact that he prefers to do one size mold per run. So 69daytona can sort that out with you. Maybe the threat of competition with NOE for the mold would make Mihec more willing to offer both.

[wilddog45]

I am all for the .700 nose long range boolit design, not especially for the increased case capacity, but for the less boolit jump into the barrel. And i think i would like to stick to a large capacity mold in a solid configuration because I will use this more for hunting than street fighting. And I have found out that solids,cast in 50/50 alloy, outperform hollowpoints on real flesh and blood animals. It is better to have full expansion in a solid with full penetration to make them leak.

[timbuck]

Looks good to me.

[John Ross]

John,

I see a possiblity here. Let me run it by you. It looks like the nose on the above examples is virtually the same on all of them. This means that several different designs should be able to be made from the same tooling by just running it a lube groove deeper. That way, all designs could be ordered on the same group buy. It might mean altering the lube grooves a little. This would mean that you could buy a mold of all your designs only running one group buy. Otherwise, they would spread out over the next year or two I would think if we ran them one at a time. NOE is very open to doing this type of thing, and has done it in the past.


I have done a number of these group buys, and if you would like, I would be happy to set it up with NOE and get them to produce a drawing for your approval. After that we could get a thread started, so we can get this thing going.



I was hoping we could do something like that. I'd like the lube grooves changed a bit to make them thinner and more of them. Dan's program won't let me do that any more. 400 with 1 lube groove, 450 with two, etc. up to 650 with 6 lube grooves. Available weights might not be exactly in 50 grain steps, that's fine.

Shall we go with Porterhouse's suggestion of .150" front band and a slightly bigger diameter on the bore ride? .495"?

What is wrong with running 5 cavities? Mold gets too hot? I always cast with multiple molds and furnaces. I've cast over 2000 bullets an hour when motivated (three eight-cavity molds at once).

[happy7]

I have PMd NOE.

Porterhouse's modifications make sense to me.

On casting with five cavity molds. It can be done. As you say, it means waiting longer between casts, and if you use enough molds in rotation this is not a bad thing. But it does seem more forgiving with more aluminum on the mold. Even the 5 cavity NOE mold is better than the 6 cavity Lee as the blocks are larger and it is one less cavity, plus the AL alloy is a little different. But, as I say, I am pretty sure NOE will allow us individually to choose which way we want it. I will confirm this with Al.

I myself will probably want as many of these as I can afford, and so will you I assume. I think we can get this on his list real soon.

[John Ross]

I have PMd NOE.

Porterhouse's modifications make sense to me.

On casting with five cavity molds. It can be done. As you say, it means waiting longer between casts, and if you use enough molds in rotation this is not a bad thing. But it does seem more forgiving with more aluminum on the mold. Even the 5 cavity NOE mold is better than the 6 cavity Lee as the blocks are larger and it is one less cavity, plus the AL alloy is a little different. But, as I say, I am pretty sure NOE will allow us individually to choose which way we want it. I will confirm this with Al.

I myself will probably want as many of these as I can afford, and so will you I assume. I think we can get this on his list real soon.

Great news! Let's get this rolling! And BTW here's an article I wrote in 2003 that some of you may enjoy...

http://web.archive.org/web/20061126230311/www.john-ross.net/betrayal.htm

[Porterhouse]

This is getting exciting!
One thing I want to point out with those semi pointy design. John, correct me if I'm wrong. I think the only reason they have 40% meplat is, that was the smallest Dan's program offered at the time you ordered. Wouldn't you prefer true sharp point if that is possible? I don't know if sharp point makes BC any better but it sure makes them look lot sexier!

Also, with the big meplat design. Onty's drawing looks good but I think John wants bigger meplat, something like 95% and make it look more like wad cutter, instead of WFN or WLN. 95% meplat of .500 is, ladies and gentlemen, same as BORE DIAMETER of mighty 475Linebaugh!

Oh, by the way, I just found some left over 700gr bullets that I had bought from Ranger Rick a few years ago. The nose of those are .700" as I measured it so, I think we should be fine with .700" nose.
So happy7, do I see with pointy design, go with NOE and big meplat/hollow point, with Mihec? I hope 69daytona to get involved...

[John Ross]

This is getting exciting!
One thing I want to point out with those semi pointy design. John, correct me if I'm wrong. I think the only reason they have 40% meplat is, that was the smallest Dan's program offered at the time you ordered. Wouldn't you prefer true sharp point if that is possible? I don't know if sharp point makes BC any better but it sure makes them look lot sexier!

I doubt a BIG difference in BC but I'd want at least a little flat point for nose-first sizing in the Star.

[John Ross]

Also, with the big meplat design. Onty's drawing looks good but I think John wants bigger meplat, something like 95% and make it look more like wad cutter, instead of WFN or WLN. 95% meplat of .500 is, ladies and gentlemen, same as BORE DIAMETER of mighty 475Linebaugh!

True, and less shank in the case (shorter, lighter bullet). .900" OAL with .200" in the case. It'll be heavy enough for SD at almost any velocity, and at high velocity should make for fun vids of shooting watermelons (wear your raincoats...)

[Porterhouse]

John,
I use modified plastic sabots to protect tips (meplat=36%) of my semi pointy bullets when I size them with Star sizer. It doesn't add too much work.

[RANGER RICK]

John,
I use modified plastic sabots to protect tips (meplat=36%) of my semi pointy bullets when I size them with Star sizer. It doesn't add too much work.

That is a great Idea for the star sizer . For my pointed ones I use the RCBS Lam II but now I might use the Star again !!!

RR

[happy7]

Here are some drawings NOE came up with. I like them. But feel free to coment and we can tweak them if needbe.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/1111-149-50450Grthru600GrRF.jpg

We could possibly shorten the body bands to be able to decrease the weight interval and have another mold or two in the series, like John originally planned. However, I do like the looks of these as is, and the weights do cover the spectrum fairly well.

[John Ross]

Can they make the grease grooves thinner and more numerous? The 450 grain should have two and the 400 grain (not shown) one.

Below is a pic of my bullets. The lightest on the left is 450 and it has two grooves.

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn302/JohnRoss_07/cast20500s.jpg

[Doc_Stihl]

Great news! Let's get this rolling! And BTW here's an article I wrote in 2003 that some of you may enjoy...

http://web.archive.org/web/20061126230311/www.john-ross.net/betrayal.htm

What a great read.

[midnight]

Thank God for the .500 S&W. Without it, what would I shoot in the Beowulf. I hope we get a group buy going on whatever comes out of this discussion. My preference would be for a 500gr HP to flatten large critters inside 150 yds.

Bob

[RANGER RICK]

Here are some drawings NOE came up with. I like them. But feel free to coment and we can tweak them if needbe.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/1111-149-50450Grthru600GrRF.jpg

We could possibly shorten the body bands to be able to decrease the weight interval and have another mold or two in the series, like John originally planned. However, I do like the looks of these as is, and the weights do cover the spectrum fairly well.

Happy

Let's see a few with a gas check design.
The .500 DIA bullets are also used in rifles such as my 500 Cyrus and pushed pretty stout so a gas check is nice .
What do ya say ???

Thanks

RR

[happy7]

Rick,

The gas check would be a nice option, but it would require a different tool for every weight. This way we can get by with one tool for all the designs. I do agree. i would like to see a gas check on the 450 weight one, but then it would need to be run separately and get to 15 orders all by itself. I am thinking about doing something like that though, after this.

[happy7]

Here is the latest revision from NOE. What do you think, John? Personally, I probably like the first ones better, but I will go with whatever everyone else wants.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/1111-149-50450Grthru600GrRFREV2.jpg

[RANGER RICK]

Happy

OK

RR

[John Ross]

Here is the latest revision from NOE. What do you think, John? Personally, I probably like the first ones better, but I will go with whatever everyone else wants.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/1111-149-50450Grthru600GrRFREV2.jpg

I like the thinner grease grooves shown here. Now get them to draw a 400 grain one with a single grease groove.

[Paulinski]

I'm in for the group buy...

[Blammer]

If you guys suddenly need a bunch of 500SW gc's let me know I'll get more in inventory.

[Porterhouse]

Bump!
Trying to keep this alive. By looking at NOE's drawings with thinner groove, 400gr would leave only 0.150" or so of inside case length. Only solution would be changing the nose profile a little and make it skinnier/pointier. Since I'm into more of Long nose with big meplat & big hollow point design, I can't say too much about those semi pointy design but that what I see.

[happy7]

I'm just waiting on the 400 drawing from Swede. He is swamped at the moment. Then I will start a thread in the active group buys. I am also planning a gas check mold as well. Something like a 440 grain.

[timbuck]

I go to ammoguide and look up loads with regards to muzzle energy.
They all seem to have a sweet spot in regards to boolit weight, this one seems to top out at 400-450grains. After that the muzzle energy drops off.
The heavier boolit looks cooler though.

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=221

It doesnt show the higher weights that members can see. I dont want to get castboolits in trouble posting the other address with all the copyright stuff. You get the idea on how it works out.

[John Ross]

Bump!
Trying to keep this alive. By looking at NOE's drawings with thinner groove, 400gr would leave only 0.150" or so of inside case length.

That's okay with me. They're going to do all the weights in one buy so it doesn't matter if I'm the only one that wants the 400 grain one.

[longbow]

John asked me to post this latest design for his 400 gr. "ROSS ALLEY CLEANER".

According to my program it will cast at 396 grs. in wheelweights.

The first attachment "John Ross 396 gr. rev1.pdf" is a 3D pdf file that opens with Acrobat reader. It seems to be working on the forum so I thought I would try it. It will open up full screen (or at least did in the preview), scroll down until you see the image and left click on it. That will open the 3D pdf which you can pan, rotate and zoom using mouse buttons.

I am not sure how well it will work so included a 2D pdf file as well.

Longbow

[John Ross]

Cool 3D pic!

On p. 187 of Keith's SIXGUNS he has a pic of three Water Patrol officers (mis-identified as Border Patrol) shooting Winchester Model 97 trench guns, which Keith calls "the best alley cleaner of all."

The .500 S&W can, with the right bullet, duplicate the ballistics of a 12 gauge with slugs. I believe that with this bullet, cast of the proper alloy and with the cavity filled with paraffin or somesuch to promote violent expansion, we can approach the close range performance of a 12 gauge with buckshot.

I'll find out.

[69daytona]

Hi Kent and John. I like the looks for alley cleaner, I have some modeling putty that will fill that cavity and stay semi pliable. I will have to try it on some of the 700gr HPs. As big as the cavity is on that one I could mix in 6-8 BBs and have a real shotgun effect.

[happy7]

Here is the 400 grain drawing, John.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/1111-149-50400GrRFREV4.jpg

So, are you happy with the bullets now? Shall I go ahead and start the group buy?

[John Ross]

Here is the 400 grain drawing, John.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/1111-149-50400GrRFREV4.jpg

So, are you happy with the bullets now? Shall I go ahead and start the group buy?

Yes. go for it.

[happy7]

The official group buy is started. Everyone who wants one of these go sign up so we can get on the schedule! Here is the link.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=111062

[longbow]

Just adding a jpeg so picture shows up in the thread.

Post #62 has the description and pdf files.

[John Ross]

Just adding a jpeg so picture shows up in the thread.

Post #62 has the description and pdf files.

This is EXACTLY what I wanted. Somebody get a group buy going.

JR

[Porterhouse]

I think 69daytona is talking to Mihec but not sure. I also would like to know how much the solid version would weigh with this design. Also, I hate to repeat the same discussion (please go back to the post #32~#39) but would like to have bore ride diameter to be slightly bigger (.495") and meplat to be slightly bigger(.475" or 95%).

[longbow]

It is John's design so I will leave decisions up to him but I can make whatever changes people want.

This was a first cut based on the info I had.

Not being a .500 S&W shooter, I do not know the exact dimensions needed so please correct me if I am wrong somewhere. Bore ride diameter can be increased if required.

The solid version will weigh about 473 grs.

The hollow point will weigh about 396 grs.

I have also drawn up a gas check version for 69Daytona. This is a first cut as well with the only real change being the gas check shank.

It will weigh 391 grs. solid and 469 grs. in solid ~ both without the gas check.

All weights based on wheelweights and calculated by the program. Obviously, minor changes in nose radius, length, meplat diameter or hollow point size will affect weight so can be adjusted to hit a specific weight it that is the goal or specific dimensions can be set and that determines final weight.

Longbow

[Don Purcell]

Hi folks, The LDPE material John is talking about is available from Buffalo Arms in Ponderay Idaho. It's available in .030 and .060 thickness. Good people to deal with.
www.buffaloarms.com Don

[Spartacus]

Thanks for that Don. I searched the site for LDPE and came up with zilch. Do you have the specific address for the stuff?

[Don Purcell]

Spartacus, go to their web page and scroll down near the bottom of the index and click on wad material. They carry vegetable fiber, puff-lon and poly, poly is what you want. They have press mounted wad punch dies for different calibers but the one for .50 cal. is listed for rifles and may be too large (.512 ? ) I have one of the wad punches to cut vegetable fiber wads to shoot in my Sharps rifles for black powder loads. Hope this helps, let me know and we'll try again. Keep your powder dry, Don

[Spartacus]

Got it Don and thanks again. Here is the link:

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Products.aspx?CAT=4108

Now I am wondering... instead of cutting this in rounds with a punch, could I cut it into strips and insert it between bullet and case in my re-loader so that the brass case would naturally cut the correct size and push it in with the bullet?