Skip the "required" barrel break in?

[nelsonted1]

I read all the time how one is supposed to, according to geniuses, do the one shot clean, shot clean, shot clean... five shots clean... and on and on.

I have a AR15 300 whisper barrel and don't want to clean and shoot endless jacket loads. I want to go straight to shooting cast bullets and having fun with the barrel.

What exactly is supposed to be the deal with the barrel break-in tedium? do you clean off the edges left by the rifling process? If so why wasn't that done by the rifler-guy? Why do they send out an unfinished barrel?

And if you're shooting High Power or heaven forbid benchrest you're hammering your way through a big chunk of the barrel life by going through the breakin.

I DON"T WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING! Tell me why I should.

TED

[geargnasher]

Clean it good, load your cast boolits, and go shoot it. If you have problems, THEN worry about "break in". If the bore needs further attention you've lost nothing by slinging a few boxes of cast through it first. At most you might need a very mild firelapping with lead boolits (with necessary precautions regarding the gas operating system) or hand lapping with some of the finer grits. Most likely the barrel will be plenty good as is.

Gear

[waksupi]

Gear said it pretty well. If you have a stainless barrel, they will usually shoot good from the first round. A chrome moly barrel will take a bit of shooting in sometimes. Try it first, and see what Dr. Gun tells you.

[HARRYMPOPE]

The break in stuff has gone too far.i see young fellows at our range doing the break in cleaning ritual on stinking semi auto Glocks and the like.Shoot one clean,shoot two clean blah blah blah...
Great marketing by the places that sell cleaning products!
My friend made a good point by saying custom barrel makers probably recommend it because if they sell a bad barrel they can say "did you do our recommended break in procedure 100% to the "T", well than..that's why it doesn't shoot under 2".

I find jacketed bullets great to "iron out" the lead in a new cast bullet barrel.( finally found a use for them !

HMP

[HeavyMetal]

I have never belived in barrel "break in"!

A barrel will shoot, or not, pretty much from the get go!

If it does not and decent accuracy for caliber can not be found with at least one factory load it needs to go back to the manufacturer.

Let me also point out that unrealistic expectations are usually the driving need behind barrel break in theories!

As an example: John Shooter bought an Ultralight .375 Lazer Magnum, with the new "Ultra-Tech" Sonar-Radar ranging system, the whole rifle weighs an amazing 5 pounds!

Factory loads are rated at .375 Caliber 275 grain soft- hollow point steel core and are gayronteed to penatrate a 6 foot redwood and expand to 1 & 1/2 inch's in diameter while retaining 93% bullet weight...at 200 yards!

Now John admits to never shooting a rifle bigger than his grandads 30 Carbine but firmly believes that his new rifle won't shoot better than 6 inchs at 100 yards because he just hasn't broken in the barrel... yet!

He will get around to it...just as soon as he gets his doctor to tell him way his shoulder is bothering him??

Hopefully no one takes my attempt at humor to seriously but I do hope I made my point that the gun is not always the only problem.

[btroj]

The whole break in routine might matter in a bench rest gun. But are we really going to notice the tiny differences in accuracy? And the potential reduction in copper fouling due to break in is going to mean nothing to us.
I just go shoot after a good cleaning.

Brad

[NSP64]

Bought a new Savage Edge. Took it home ran a wet patch trough it, followed by a dry one. Went to the range and started working up cast loads for it. Havent cleaned it since(500 rounds). No leading. Best barrel I have ever seen on a gun.

Seems like Savage found a way to make an inexpensive good rifle. They went cheap on everything except the barrel bore.

[82nd airborne]

On a whisper you will most likely never know the difference. Now take two identical rifles with one shooter, who knows what he is doing doing, and shoot at 1,000 yards, it will make a little difference between one that was broken in and one that wasnt.

[bhn22]

If you don't want to do the break in, then don't. No "rule" is cast in stone. You may get away with it, and it won't be an issue at all.

[Az Rick]

My break in routine for a handgun or rifle "if needed" is to shoot a box of j-word bullets through it first, just to polish the bore some. I do believe it helps.

Best, Rick

[btroj]

If you don't want to do the break in, then don't. No "rule" is cast in stone. You may get away with it, and it won't be an issue at all.

May get away with it? Sure makes me think you believe in the break in process for all barrels. I think it is something that the bench resters do that has become vogue for max accuracy. I think we get too hung up on something that the bench shooters do that becomes a must for every day rifles too.
I just get tired of the idea that all rifles must be treated the same as a bench gun. They care about a couple of thou in group group size, I sure don't.

I love the guy breaking in his glock. That killed me. A sure sign of things gone too far. Something is mentioned in passing about one segment of the shooting sports and it suddenly becomes gospel in all shooting sports. WOW!

[Bass Ackward]

Required is a dirty word around gun men. You could have God tell somebody something mad good sense to do and they would still find a reason not to.

Does shooting in a fouled (leaded) barrel affect accuracy or not? If you say no, then break in will mean nothing to you. The reason that you shoot / clean, shoot / clean is so you keep your bore straight and close pores in metal.

Only a bullet that touches steel can do this. Once you foul, the bullet polishes the fouling. The slug must pass this fouling to continue on. If you continue to shoot, barrel WEAR continues on the smooth side of the bore that didn't foul as the bullet HAS TO divert the fouling just as you would walking down a street to get by. lead is the worst here because it builds. Hard lead is the worst.

This happens new or can be with 10,000 rounds down the bore. You will not smooth the portion of the bore causing the problem until you clean it. And it speeds cleaning mostly cause this is another thing guys don't generally do very well.

So does shooting over fouling make a difference? If you don't have a problem, then no. If you do, then shoot clean routine can help. What was the old saying, a stitch in time saves nine?

Break-in is personality driven. You have to beat some guys over the head to see the benefit of slugging too. Is their a difference? Yes, but that don't change their argument. :grin:

Then the same guys that won't break-in start becoming the 10 shot group advocates cause they JUST CAN'T BELIEVE accuracy doesn't change on you the way it does for them. Heat and fouling. :grin:

[canyon-ghost]

To re-iterate the simple facts: Barrel break in is intended to BURNISH the top surface of the lands. That requires shooting fast enough to heat the barrel. Not sure if that does anything.

[HollowPoint]

My break in procedure is as follows:

Buy a new gun, load up some bullets, take it out and shoot it, bring it home and clean it, repeat.

I've always heard and read about "Barrel Break-in" but, I've never really done it. I've also never really had any barrel-related problems with any gun I've ever owned.

It may be just ignorance and laziness on my part but I've never really seen any need for it.

As eluded to by others, maybe if I were a bench rest competition shooter I'd do it but, since I'm just a weekend shooter, plinker, tinkerer, enthusiast, I skip the "Barrel Break-in" process all together.

HollowPoint

[pistolman44]

I read somewhere a while back that the article stated that a chromed lined barrel in an AR doesn't shoot cast boolits accurately. I don't why it wouldn't if you sized boolits to the barrel bore size.

[btroj]

I am with hollow point. I am not a group shooter. I hunt and plink. Does break in have merit in some cases? Yes. My point is that it is not required in all cases.
I think the guys who go out and shoot a hundred or so jacketed then go to cast have some merit. It gets rid of burrs left by the chamber reamer and by the rifling process.
I think we also need to understand that breaking in a custom barrel is lots different from a factory barrel. If the barrel has reamer marks on the lands I don't think break in is going to fix it.

I think it was Felix who has said that shooting so e high antimony cast bullets would do the same as shooting the jacketed. Over time even lead will smooth out a barrel, just takes a lot longer.

I suppose I am too lazy to do a complex break in. I am satisfied with what I get for results so I have no desire to change.

[Blammer]

I DON"T WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING! Tell me why I should.

TED

To answer your question directly. I got nuthin! Go shooting!

My observations:

I purchased a NEW 8x57 Rem 700. I did NO barrel break in, I just shot the snot out of it. This is with jacketed bullets. I loaded test rounds to find accuracy. After about the 200 round mark I noticed that ALL of my test loads were starting to look better. I went back and retested some poor loads and they were better and retested some good loads and they were even better. The ones I retested were in the very beginning of the use of the new barrel.

I've done this with two different new barrels and found that around the 200 round mark the barrel is "settled" or "broke in" or whatever you want to call it.

I suspect the shoot one and clean method would cause this 'break in" period to happen a lot sooner, but to me I'd rather be pulling the trigger than pushing a brush. :)

I'd say, load them up and shoot them!

(now that I think about it, I've done this with 4 new factory barrels. 357mag levergun, 44mag bolt gun, 8x57, 25WSSM)

[Sully]

I have never belived in barrel "break in"!

A barrel will shoot, or not, pretty much from the get go!

If it does not and decent accuracy for caliber can not be found with at least one factory load it needs to go back to the manufacturer.

Let me also point out that unrealistic expectations are usually the driving need behind barrel break in theories!

As an example: John Shooter bought an Ultralight .375 Lazer Magnum, with the new "Ultra-Tech" Sonar-Radar ranging system, the whole rifle weighs an amazing 5 pounds!

Factory loads are rated at .375 Caliber 275 grain soft- hollow point steel core and are gayronteed to penatrate a 6 foot redwood and expand to 1 & 1/2 inch's in diameter while retaining 93% bullet weight...at 200 yards!

Now John admits to never shooting a rifle bigger than his grandads 30 Carbine but firmly believes that his new rifle won't shoot better than 6 inchs at 100 yards because he just hasn't broken in the barrel... yet!

He will get around to it...just as soon as he gets his doctor to tell him way his shoulder is bothering him??

Hopefully no one takes my attempt at humor to seriously but I do hope I made my point that the gun is not always the only problem.

I never owned a rifle; pistol or shotgun that someone ELSE couldnt shoot better! And I was perfectly satisfied with each weapons performance!!

[mroliver77]

There are as many, if not more, bench rest shooters as well as barrel makers that say this theory is bs. Nuff said.
Jay

[cajun shooter]

I know a man by the name of David Tubbs and I have his DVD's and have followed his break in process. I probably do this because that is how we were taught in sniper school. I also have shot with guys who will buy a very good rifle and if it shoots to minute of pie plate they are very happy. I say it is up to the owner and what he decides is fine with me. I will continue to believe in the process as I have seen the comparison made. If you shoot deer at 150 yds or less then you can say baloney and do it your way. If you want to squeeze every last bit of accuracy out of that rifle then break it in. By the way you have barrel makers who say yes to a break in and those who say no need.

[JSnover]

Just keep it clean. The barrel will break itself in.

[mpmarty]

I bought a brand new Savage in 308 and religiously did the shoot, clean, shoot, clean for over the course of its first two hundred rounds. All with cast boolits. That rifle is ACCURATE and never leads the barrel. Did my regimen of one shot, clean ten times, five shots, clean ten times make a difference? Who knows? Who Cares? I'm happy and if I ever get another new rifle I'll do the same thing and expect the same results. It is how I was taught to break in a barrel and I'm convinced it is the right thing to do. YMMV.

[geargnasher]

CJ, I'm not arguing with your experiences, but I must point out that shooting J-words for critical accuracy in one particular high-powered caliber doesn't make a rule that can be associated directly with cast boolit performance in a 300 Whisper with regard to whether it's broke-in or not.

I've seen plenty of times a good break in procedure helped a barrel, also firelapped a few and seen remarkable results. The point here is, will it help this guy? Who knows, only his gun can tell us. Is a good break-in necessary for a built-up .308 handled by a highly skilled professional with hand crafted precison loads in a situation where 1/2" difference will change many lives forever? I'd say it probably does.

Gear

[montana_charlie]

I read all the time how one is supposed to, according to geniuses, do the one shot clean, shot clean, shot clean... five shots clean... and on and on.

I DON"T WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING! Tell me why I should.

There is a barrel maker, who produces high quality stuff, and who provides break-in instructions with his barrels.

A person who had a brand new one posted that he chose to forego the break-in routine. He felt that a good cleaning was all that would be necessary before just 'using' the barrel.
During that initial cleaning he found a reddish 'residue' in the barrel, and was asking what material (used in barrel making) it might be. Nobody had a direct answer for him, but there was some speculation that it was a substance which would be used during the break-in procedure to bring the bore to final polish.

It's possible that the popularity of that brand of barrel has prompted people to adopt the same (or similar) break-in routine for barrels of other makes.

If you don't own a new barrel made by a shop that provides a recommended break-in procedure, then you can do as you see fit.
If your new barrel came with such a procedure, you can still do as you see fit...just remind me to never buy anything from you that has more than two moving parts.

CM

[btroj]

One thing not stated here yet is that the barrels with break in instructions come form custom barrel makers, not the mass producers of guns.
The person shooting a Krieger barrel has much different expectations from a guy who bought a Winchester off the rack. We should not be confusing a factory Marlin barrel with a top flight custom job.
I have never broken in my Pacnor barrels on my service rifles. It was not pushed by the guy who built the uppers. Went distinguished with one said upper. Would a break in have made a difference? Maybe. But the burden was on me to put the shots where they needed to be.
I am somewhat with Gear on this. What does tour gun seem to want? If you expect max accuracy then break it in. For a short range hunting gun then why? If it has a bore constriction then lap it. But look at what is required of the gun.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I'd skip ALL that Mumbo-Jumbo if I were you. Same with cleaning the barrel. It's all BS to sell you cleaning solvents and supplies.

Just because every form of rifle competition in this country says you need to is no reason to.

Rich

[geargnasher]

"I read somewhere if you can't say something positive here, just stay away from the keyboard.

regards,

Rich"

I guess sarcasm wasn't included in this?

Gear

[bhn22]

May get away with it? Sure makes me think you believe in the break in process for all barrels. I think it is something that the bench resters do that has become vogue for max accuracy. I think we get too hung up on something that the bench shooters do that becomes a must for every day rifles too.
I just get tired of the idea that all rifles must be treated the same as a bench gun. They care about a couple of thou in group group size, I sure don't.

I love the guy breaking in his glock. That killed me. A sure sign of things gone too far. Something is mentioned in passing about one segment of the shooting sports and it suddenly becomes gospel in all shooting sports. WOW!

I agree with you about the Glocks. I normally break in my "good" barrels, and let the cheaper stuff fend for itself. It depends on what I expect from my barrel. If I expect it to perform perfectly, I follow the recommended break in procedure. This procedure was developed by a group of barrel makers to help people acclimate their barrels to shooting. I suppose I could buy only hand lapped barrels ($$$) and avoid the whole situation. I feel it just boils down to my doing my part to make everything work. The more I spend on a barrel or firearm, the more I expect from it. If my expectations are lower, I spend less, and put less effort into development. For example, I wouldn't break in the barrel on an Uzi at all, it's just a bullet hose to me. A target rifle would be a different situation. Especially a high dollar one.

[btroj]

I can agree with you on this BHN22. Sadly though, it is the hand lapped barrel makers who recommend the break in. For a high end accuracy rifle a break in makes sense.
My ppoint is that people seem to think that breaking in barrels, weighing cases, turning necks, etc will make their factory rifle into a bench rest rifle.
It is a matter of choice. I chose to own guns that I don't think will benefit from break in . I have some that I have fire lapped because the gun needed it.
I just get tired of the idea that you HAVE to do thing like break in barrels. Or weight every cast bullet. Or own a thermometer for you pot. Or use a hardness tester. That ONE gun cleaner is the best.
I like to keep things simple. I like to shoot. I do not like cleaning barrels. I cast, I load, I shoot.

Brad

[Hickory]

Last year I spent the summer buying parts and assembling an AR 15 for my son, that I gave him this past Christmas.
Breaking it in was fairly simple.

I fired 30 rounds through it then cleaned it,
ran another 30 rounds through it and cleaned it.
Put it in a box, rapped it up and put it under the tree.

Merry Christmas Son

[zomby woof]

Most of my rifles are pre-enjoyed C+R or CMP. When I've rebarreled my AR or M1, I followed the break in procedure. They are Kreigers. It makes sense to me. The barrel maker also recommends.

[mroliver77]

Here is a post by Gale McMillan from the late 90's.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The break in fad was started by a fellow I helped get started in the barrel business . He started putting a set of break in instructions in ever barrel he shipped. One came into the shop to be installed and I read it and the next time I saw him I asked him What was with this break in ****?. His answer was Mac, My share of the market is about 700 barrels a year. I cater to the target crowd and they shoot a barrel about 3000 rounds before they change it. If each one uses up 100 rounds of each barrel breaking it in you can figure out how many more barrels I will get to make each year. If you will stop and think that the barrel doesn't know whether you are cleaning it every shot or every 5 shots and if you are removing all foreign material that has been deposited in it since the last time you cleaned it what more can you do? When I ship a barrel I send a recommendation with it that you clean it ever chance you get with a brass brush pushed through it at least 12 times with a good solvent and followed by two and only 2 soft patches. This means if you are a bench rest shooter you clean ever 7 or 8 rounds . If you are a high power shooter you clean it when you come off the line after 20 rounds. If you follow the fad of cleaning every shot for X amount and every 2 shots for X amount and so on the only thing you are accomplishing is shortening the life of the barrel by the amount of rounds you shot during this process. I always say Monkey see Monkey do, now I will wait on the flames but before you write them, Please include what you think is happening inside your barrel during break in that is worth the expense and time you are spending during break in."
I will go with his recomendations and be happy.
Jay

[unclebill]

i buy em clean em and start shooting.
and then clean when accuracy suffers.

[Smoke-um if you got-um]

I believe a fairly high percentage of the barrel "metal" break in procedure is also a "mental" break in procedure for the shooter. Some people will not, or ever, be satisfied with any thing less than a "full" and thorough break in routine for both the barrel and themselves. It is satisfying and gratifying to know that you have done everything that is within your kowledge and skill level to assist the rifle and youself to shoot as well as possible. Some will modify the procedure to their satisfaction level and be happy as well. Some will not do it at all and still be happy and comfortable with both the rifle and themselves. The good folks here have provided the "pros" and "cons" of the procedures merit, but to what degree is it necessary for both you and your rifle is the question to ask yourself.......... I've done it on many but not all of my barrels and......... wait a minute.... Yes, I'm coming !.......... OK! I know I'm late!..... Gotta go, the nurse is wanting to know how I got in here and insisting I attend the group therapy session, I hate group therapy, I don't belong in here, they're all craaaazzzzy, what's that needle for ???? How was I supposed to know this was your office ? The door was unlocked, I swear........... Why? I'll tell you why, they took mine from me last week. All that COD stuff was not my fault...... Pay for it ????.... how am I supposed to pay for it, pasting pictures on cardboard ain't one of your better paying careers.... OK! OK! I choose the easy way..... easy on the arm there sweethea................. [smilie=w:

Whatever you choose to do, have fun doing it.
P.S. The only reason I'm in here is cuz I started paperpatching CB's a few yrs ago......just sayin.....
Mike

[giz189]

If bought new, clean the packing grease or oil out, then shoot paper patched!!!!!

[Pat I.]

I think all breaking in does is smooth up the throat. I used to do it to my cast bullet BR guns but gave up on it because my patience level is so low. Never noticed a difference but then again I haven't in the winners circle that many times with broken in or non broken in barrels so what I think might not count for much.

[Markbo]

Maybe apples and oranges here but I have obtained 3 or 4 revolvers in the last couple of years and they ALL leaded shooting cast bullets from the outset. Shooting 40-50 jacketed bullets pretty much solved the issue in 3 of the 4 and one required a little more attention with the Tubb system. It just showed me that barrels could use a little smoothing out and jacketed bullets are not THAT big an expense.

Or one could always just use JB Bore paste. A lot depends on the barrel of course - a high dollar cutomer barrel will not need it and off the shelf barrels might. A peek with a good bore scope would help clarify the issue easily and quickly. Most gun shops and smiths have one.

[Sasquatch]

This is just my experiance but my rifle (a wby vanguard with an alloy steel barrel) shot a bit better after 100 shots. now it wasn't new, but I doubt it had seen that many shots with its previous owner. It was probably more about familarity with the rifle, but it could have been 'broken in'. Either way it was well within minute-of-deer at 200 yards. And the 11th-20th shots out of it were my dads and his group size was half the size of my best. So, its probably more a confidence thing. But, like everybody else said its YOUR rifle so it is your choice. Its more about fun then accuracy (unless you find accuracy fun), right?

[JIMinPHX]

In my personal opinion, the amount of break in required depends on the condition of the bore when you get it. A well made barrel with a real nice polished bore needs very little done to it aside from normal cleaning & oiling. If the bore is a little rough...well then...there are all sorts of things that you CAN do.

[JIMinPHX]

Please include what you think is happening inside your barrel during break in that is worth the expense and time you are spending during break in."


Well, since you asked, I think that what is happening inside the barrel during break in is two fold.

First, you are knocking off some of the boogers & tool marks that are left in a semi-finished barrel that some places ship. Second, I think that you are settling out the stresses that are left in the barrel material from the machining processes. These are the same internal stresses that are supposedly released during "cryo processing" that some places charge a mint for.

Unless you are working with a material like post processed (stress relieved) 1144 (A.K.A. Stressproof) alloy, bar stock will have internal stress in it when it arrives from the steel yard. As you machine said stock, you will add more stress in the material, especially if you take heavy roughing cuts. This sort of thing shows up quickly when you go to heat treat something that was machined into a thin section. Internal stresses are one of the big reasons why parts distort during heat treating. As a part is gently worked back & forth many times from normal use, the stresses can dissipate over time, causing stabilization of the material & the part. The changes are small, but they are there. I believe that this is one of the reasons that guns that were a little squirrely when new sometimes settle down over time, although I believe that most of the time that is due to wooden stocks that mature with age, or the smoothing of the bore from repeated cleaning.

As I said before though, I don't think that a good barrel needs to have much of anything done to it aside from routine maintenance. The cheaper ones...well, you know. They might need a little lee-menting type work.:bigsmyl2:

[Three44s]

I clean'em when they get dirty!

I use solvents and USP bore paste .........

When the barrels stop leading .......... I drop the bore paste.

For a long range J-word rifle I can see polishing a little more. The accuracy expectations are much higher and there is much more heat on the fouling.

Three 44s