BRP boolits?????????

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

OK, am not seeing results or comments on BRP molds/boolits.

Am looking at those with the LFN in 400+ grains for the 45/70.

This mold maker and the LFN boolits of 400+ grains were recommended by a frequent poster on this and other sites, and I would tend to think he knows of what he speaks.

Looking on the group buys and the discussions in that area, I seen little or no mention of what appears to be a good product.

What gives? Am I just missing the posts about the BRP molds/boolits or ----?

From what I do see, it appears Bruce at BRP, is great to deal with, so can anyone give me any info on personal results with 45/70 boolits from these molds?

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[ktw]

I have a couple of the BRP molds and consider them to be every bit as good (equivalent to) the NOE aluminum molds being sold here. The machining work is top notch. I wish he offered brass/iron block options.

One advantage to BRP over NOE is that you can simply order single molds from his catalog instead of waiting on a group buy to finish. I've always received them with a week or two of ordering.

Another difference (advantage or disadvantage, depending on your point of view) is that the BRP's come with the top of the blocks "patterned", rather than smooth, for better venting. This is good in that the sprue plate floats across the block tops like nothing else I've ever used, but you have to be more careful about watching for and preventing any buildup of lead between the sprue plate and the top of the blocks because it's more difficult to remove once it's there. You can't lightly wet-dry the top of the blocks to remove lead and scoring (like with a set of Lee blocks) without removing the venting pattern.

-ktw

[357 Voodoo]

If you look in the vendor sponsor section he has posted some of his products there. allso you can check out his web page http://www.brp.castpics.net

[bhn22]

There's a great deal of feedback on him in the vendor section. All of it appears to be positive.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks guys,

I have checked out his web site, but I'd really like to hear some hands on results.

I have some more testing to do with my 350gr LBT mold, but so far am not seeing the groups I hope for.

Great vel. from my #1 and it really put down my first cast boolit critter, but I really want better groups.

Have already tried a number of powders and 3 different lubes, but am not seeing the group size go down to a great degree.

Great barrel, little to no leading even in the 2200 - 2500fps range, but ----.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Bass Ackward]

This mold maker and the LFN boolits of 400+ grains were recommended by a frequent poster on this and other sites, and I would tend to think he knows of what he speaks.

Looking on the group buys and the discussions in that area, I seen little or no mention of what appears to be a good product.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot


Guys chase molds for many reasons. They go for historical designs or popular designs that worked for somebody else. Often the purchase is made on .... hope.

The only reason to buy a mold for a rifle is because the bullet it creates FITS your gun. If it fits, it shoots without being finicky.

I have two molds from Bruce and the molds produce good slugs in the design I wanted that fit my guns. So they shoot well.

So whats that worth? Everything to me but nothing to you because I don't know your gun.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Crusty. Have you tried getting ahold of Bruce at BRP and asking if he had some samples of these .45/70 bullets you could try????? Chances are pretty good he will send you some to try and see if you do want the mold to make them yourself.Robert

[376Steyr]

I have a BRP 4 cavity with a hollowpoint for their version of the 358156. It's quality is as good as the NOE products, and I've been extremely happy with it. Turnaround was quick, too. I recommend them.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Good idea about the samples, and as far as "fit" I am not totally sure just what is ment.

I have loaded since the 60s, so am well aware that not all "J" bullets shoot well in all guns.

However, and as said in an earlier post, I need to test another power or so with my LBT boolit before buying another mold, but at this point although the barrel is great, bright, clean, smooth, little to no leading etc. and I am not getting any funny things like boolits tumbling I am just to this point NOT able to get the groups I desire.

2 1/2 to 3" at a hundred yards is do able, but I seek more like 1 1/2 - 2". Would like better.

I will admit that this rifle cast boolit shooting is a very different game then the "J" bullets I have shot for years. But I have changed lubes, trying three different products, used 5 or 6 powders, changed alloy, water quenched and air cooled, weighed the boolits etc. and have about done away with the fliers but tighter groups are still aways off.

I have an "E" into Bruce, sent before I started this thread, but was hoping for info from someone that has used some of Bruce's LFN boolits in a 45/70, preferably at #1 and not Springfield velocities.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Bass Ackward]

Good idea about the samples, and as far as "fit" I am not totally sure just what is ment.

I will admit that this rifle cast boolit shooting is a very different game then the "J" bullets I have shot for years. But I have changed lubes, trying three different products, used 5 or 6 powders, changed alloy, water quenched and air cooled, weighed the boolits etc. and have about done away with the fliers but tighter groups are still aways off.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot



Your throat is a guide for the bore. If you have a throat that does NOT support perfect alignment, then your slug can become damaged under pressure. Thus you must try slug design after slug design until you get something that works to a higher standard. When you get FIT correct, then you can use more powders, lubes, alloys and hardness's and more stuff works well.

Fit is a term that means that a bullet is supported in multiple locations so that under pressure, it can establish and then hold bore center until it enters the bore where it is fully supported by steel. The bullet then rotates perfectly on it's axis and is balanced with the base leaving the muzzle square so muzzle pressure doesn't kick the base. If it can't fit in this method, then more has to be done on the nose to center and hold.

You can find out what kind of throat you have by using pure lead slugs to slug that throat. Then you can measure and KNOW what you are dealing with and if a slug meets that criteria instead of loading humteen billion combinations before you realize it doesn't. If you learn your throat (gun), you will be able to make better J word selections too. So it pays dividends to do it.

45-70s tend to have the WIDEST variations in throat shapes and sizes with everything from conventional rifle throats to funnels. Fit is everything. Strength of the design can also be critical. If you have a funnel throat, you need strength where the impact is going to be. Without that, you will need a harder slug and still you will have less flexibility. Since you mention lukewarm success with an LBT that has some of the widest front (impact) drive bands ever made, then strength of design alone isn't going to help you. This isn't a good sign.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Bass Ackward,

OK, since I now understand what you call, "fit" it would be safe to say that my "fit" is fine.

The throat/leade is very short on this rifle.

In fact, I took the rifle along with some loaded LBT rounds to my gunsmith to make it possible to seat/chamber the LBT boolit.

Cliff reamed a tiny bit with the 45/70 throating reamer, then made a chamber cast and repeated the process another time or two before a loaded round would chamber.

A very tiny amount of metal was removed.

Even after that, I sometimes need to push the loaded round into the chamber due to contact with the lands.

The throat was so short, that a Remington jacketed factory round would not chamber.

One possible factor, which has been suggested by a poster is, for the best groups, I may be a bit high in the velocity department.

Re-shooting some of the already tested powders at a bit lower level is one of the things I plan on doing, along with testing H322.

Thanks for all the input! I'll get "there" but just don't know what door will have the magic number at this point.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol"Coot

[bhn22]

How does your #1 shoot the other loads you shoot in it?

[45r]

I got one of his 3 cavity 420GC molds for the 45-70 and they shoot very well in the 3 rifles I've tried them in.My win highwall and Marlin XLR and GS love them.The boolits drop out around .461 to 462 I think and you can size them to whatever your rifle likes.I haven't needed to Heat treat my boolits and they are plenty accurate.I like the fly cut on top of the molds myself also.I use bullshops sprue plate lube and the mold top doesn't lead up much so I haven't had any problems with that part.I've been using a rcbs ladle and stainless steel pot at 700 degrees over a hotplate and the mold drops perfect boolits most every pour.I've seen babore cast and he makes perfect boolits every time and I got interested in ladle casting since he made it look easy and fast.His molds work good with my rcbs pro-melter also.If you get one of his molds I think you will be impressed with the quality.When I need another mold I will get one from him.

[Bass Ackward]

Bass Ackward,

OK, since I now understand what you call, "fit" it would be safe to say that my "fit" is fine.

The throat/leade is very short on this rifle.

Crusty Deary Ol"Coot


Short throats are deceptive.

If you have no ball seat to speak of, then your brass has to perform the guidance of steel. So bullet diameter that is needed is approximately the inside diameter of a fired case or you still need nose support.

If you have too much chamber slop, then you will experience the same and accuracy will never be top of the line.

Understand that others are reading this too, so the detail is for everyone.

[45nut]

I have two of Bruce's molds are they are top of the line. I do not consider them second to anyone else's products, that said, we are blessed indeed to have choices!
BRP listens to your needs and ship's fast!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/45nut/P1040081.jpg

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Good info coming!!!!

As per BHN22's question, I have shot no "J" boolits so don't have that "standard" to go by. The sole reason for getting the 45/70 was to cast my own boolits for hunting.

Soooooo, will probably stay with them if I can get anywhere close to the desired results.

My current groups are as good as I've had, so powder, types and amounts are the next changes.

The current groups make it a good 100 to 125yd rifle, but hope to get the rifle to be a reasonable 200yd. + game slayer.

I have shot a few of the 405 RCBS, but wanted something with a larger meplat and had good luck with a LBT/WFN 310gr. boolit in my .44.

So hoping for a bit better less of a rainbow type arch I decided to try the LBT/WFN 350gr.

Lloyd Smale really like the RCBS boolit and apparently has hunted with it a good bit.

He also seems to indicate that I may be a bit high in the velocity department for the best groups.

He isn't a big fan of aluminum molds, but recommended the BRP 420gr WFN as a good mold and a good shooting boolit.

Unless I hear something to turn me away from them, will probably go that way if I can't get the groups a bit better with the LBT.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[357maximum]

The last dozen or so moulds I have purchased have come from BRP. I have quit looking anywhere else as I have found my mould supplier/crack dealer[smilie=s:. I am also real fortunate as I can drive over and pick up my BRP moulds and shoot the breeze with the evil genious. [smilie=w: If some of my words sound biased there is good reason for that....I am. I simply feel he designs/makes/offers the best that can be had.


Bruce is a serious freak about accuracy and has a serious passion/fanaticism to his shooting/designing/mold making. He will not sell something that does not work (unless you are truly P.I.A insistant on some old forgotten design):shock:

I have shot several of his 45 cal designs in his 45/70 and 450 marlin. While I honestly admit that I am not a 45caliber man, I was very very very impressed with how his ingot shooters performed. His 45's will shoot sub MOA in his hands and they even shot great with this particular nut behind the butt. IMO you cannot go wrong with a BRP design.

I would contact Bruce and tell him what you have and what you are doing. He will hook you up with the best boolit to the best of his experience/ability.

[crabo]

I'm really happy with the mold I bought from him.

[ddixie884]

I have not dealt with Bruce, YET, but I plan on doing so. I've been around this board, off and on for a couple of years, and I can tell you he has a VERY good reputation. I'm sure he will do what he can to help you.

[PacMan]

I am quite a fan of LBT bulets and molds but i have never shot any of the WFN except in 35 caliber which shoot very well in my Marlins.
You could order some LFN bullets from Beartooh and try them before you spend money on a mold.
The LFN is a very accurate bullet design and in 458 the meplat will be approx .330 about the same as the .44 WFN.
If they shoot well for you then i would recomed a mold following that design.

I received my .452 LFN 325gr Gc mold from Lbt last week and in my Rossi 454 Casull it is very accurate.My 2nd load of Lil Gun and i was done with load development in that gun.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I rec'd an "E" from Bruce at BRP boolit molds, and I thought he made a very good effort to answer my questions!!!!!! Thanks Bruce!

AS per fit which has been mentioned on this thread, Bruce recommended I take a case, fired in my rifle, and attempt to push one of my boolits into the un-sized case.

In this way, I would be able to gauge the size of the chamber when compaired to the boolits which are sized .459.

If the boolit was a loose or sloppy fit in a fired case, it would indicate a large chamber and possible potential problems.

As I believe Bass Ackward indicated, if the chamber is over size, a loaded or reloaded cartridge would lay to the low side of the chamber and not line up well with the chamber throat.

Bruce indicated that if this was a problem, using a larger dia. boolit would force the cartridge into a better alignment, better centering, with the chamber and throat of the rifle.

Well, I tried to push one of my sized boolits into an un-sized and fired case mouth and when I finally did suceed, it was only with lots of force. The boolit was so tight that the cases could be reloaded without sizing. Just reprime, charge and reseat a boolit.

Apparently I do have a good, tight and well aligned chamber.

Bruce also commented that his experience indicates that the 45/70 tends to shoot best with boolits in the range of over 400grains. His 465gr LFN boolit is apparently a very good one.

Lloyd Smale, as I recall, also felt the heavier boolits grouped best when compaired with boolits such as the 350gr I am currently using.

Lloyd also spoke in favor of the 456gr LFN - BPR boolit.

I really do thank everyone for their input! hope it keeps coming.

Soooooo, at this point, I plan to go ahead with some additional tests with the 350gr LBT/WFN boolit hoping to find a sweet spot, but if it does not happen early in the next season's testing it will be off to Bruce at BPR for a 420 or 465gr - 4 cavity mold.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Bass Ackward]

As I believe Bass Ackward indicated, if the chamber is over size, a loaded or reloaded cartridge would lay to the low side of the chamber and not line up well with the chamber throat.

Well, I tried to push one of my sized boolits into an un-sized and fired case mouth and when I finally did suceed, it was only with lots of force. The boolit was so tight that the cases could be reloaded without sizing. Just reprime, charge and reseat a boolit.

Apparently I do have a good, tight and well aligned chamber.

Bruce also commented that his experience indicates that the 45/70 tends to shoot best with boolits in the range of over 400grains. His 465gr LFN boolit is apparently a very good one.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot



Perfect Example!

Many times a larger diameter bullet makes enough contact that it performs the alignment. If it has to jump, then a big diameter bullet contacts steel sooner. Heavy (longer bullets) reach across expanses.

You may want to continue this farther. Slug your bore and try seating that slug in your fired cases. If you can't shoot a large enough diameter bullet to count as fit, then it is even MORE critical for bullet design to be able to provide this alignment WITHOUT the aid of diameter. This may explain your LBT issues.

And it does help to keep perspective on bullet weight. If we look at 2 times bore diameter as an indicator for bearing area, then it makes it easier. For a 30 caliber, this is generally achieved with most 150 grain bullets. (depends on the design, some aerodynamic boat tail designs might not have that much bearing area, but copper can hold the rifling)

So where is it in 45 caliber? Starts about 420 grains. I'd go for the 465 grainer.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Bass Ackward,

It does look like that - 420 / 465gr. - might be where I'm headed.

If the 350gr LBT doesn't give me good results with the tests to be run AFTER Winter finishes with "it's thing", I'll figure a new mold is in the soon to be future.

Have an unexpected run to Lewiston, Idaho/Clarkston, Washington coming on Thursday, so I'll plan on picking up some powder to complete the planned tests.

Only have one small store in this area - 25+ miles away - that has any reloading supplies and the prices are likely to be better "in the valley."

Not a big traveler, so try to take advantage of the occasional runs to Spokane
(100miles) or Lewiston/Clarkston (45miles).

THOUGHT/QUESTION I have watched bench rest shooters reload their cartridges at the shooting bench without sizing the fired case.

As I'm sure you know, it is possible for them to do this because of the tight tolerences they are working with, along with not over stressing their cases.

Considering the facts, ---- that my fired brass will return to the chamber as fired/un-sized, ---- that a sized boolit is a VERY tight fit in the fired/un-sized case, ---- And the additional fact that I am shooting a single shot, why not try just giving the case mouth the normal flairing and seat the boolit in the unsized case?

This would maintain cases which are already formed/centered to this chamber.

If sizing was required at all, size no more of the case then boolit seating depth or a bit less, again with the intent on maintaining a close brass to chamber fit.

AS long as the brass continues to chamber with no problems, I can see no negatives in taking this direction.

THOUGHTS/COMMENTS -----------------------------

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[6.5 mike]

I have both of brp's 6.5 molds & have had very good results with them in 3 of my swedes. Fit & finish is top notch.

[rockrat]

I have one of his 378-310 moulds for my 375 H&H. 4 shots under and inch and pulled the 5th to make it a 1 1/2" group. Chrono'd a little over 2200fps

[Bass Ackward]

Bass Ackward,

AS long as the brass continues to chamber with no problems, I can see no negatives in taking this direction.

THOUGHTS/COMMENTS -----------------------------

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot



Proof of the pudding is always in it's taste, so it only matters what the gun thinks. If you are interested along these lines, do some research on "breech seating"

The whole benifit to bullet fit is so that you don't have to jump through special hoops.