Chunk Gun

[gee-gaw]

Hey Guys,
I was hoping one of you might come-up with a pic of a Chunk Gun and Rest. I have this need... well how about an uncontrollable urge to shoot / own one of these. Hope there are some chunk Gun shooters on here so I might pick there brain.
Thanks in advance for you're reply,
Wayne

[gnoahhh]

I would recommend picking up a copy of Ned Roberts "The Muzzleloading Cap Lock Rifle". Lots of good info on heavy ML target rifles along with illustrations. A must have for anybody even mildly interested in the history of, and the management of, ML cap lock rifles. It's been re-printed a few times, and may actually still be in print from Wolfe Publishing.

[Shooter]

I used to shoot a chunk gun match or two. All my pards have died off now.
NMLRA has info.
You are not too far from "Jimtown" TN home of Alvin York. They used to have a big chunk gun match there. I don't know if they still do or not.

[northmn]

With total respect to those on this thread, I would suggest taht you also visit American Longrifles.com They have had several discussions on chunk guns and are a group of rifle builders.


DP

[gee-gaw]

Hey gnoahhh,
Thanks for the tip, I'll be on the look-out for that one!!!

Hey Shooter,
You're geography lessons paid off! ( there's one in every crowd! ) That match is way-up on my list of things to do. On a more serious note, I've got experience with this losing friends thing, my huntin pard, pastor and good friend of many years passed away last week and it has left me reflecting on things. Like my own morality, the value of good friends and, was I a good friend?

Hey northmn,
I'll check that out this evening...thanks.


Thanks guys for the responses, keep em coming!
Wayne

[475BH]

Not sure if this is considered a "chunk gun" but here goes.
http://www.pbase.com/halp/inbox

http://www.pbase.com/halp/slug_guns

[6pt-sika]

I've seen a pair of "Chunk Guns" Al Edge built !

One was for a friend of mine and the other was for himself . They were both very nicely done and shot well if you held them right . Both were caplock and weighed about 18 pounds .

[DIRT Farmer]

I know there are some chunk gunners at Oak Ridge. I have shot my poor boys chunk gun in matches, T C with a Green Mountain 50 barrel and a non adjustable sight.

[Shooter]

My chunk gun is a H&R underhammer in .58 with a 32" barrel 11/8" across the flats. It weighs right at 10#, and is fitted with shaders.
We always shot patched round ball.
I used various rests, from a sissors jack to a plain chunk of wood depending on the rules of the match.
Sometimes we used a burnt board, sometimes a paper target, depending on our mood.
Sometimes we used "String measure", sometimes closest to the "X" wins.
We always had fun. We shot off everything from a carton of beer to a pair of snow tires, though we limited live animals after the chicken got away.:redneck:

[gee-gaw]

Hey Guys,
I've been to the range with the TC Renegade with the hopes of making it shoot patched round balls. Not much luck. She's shootin around two inches at sixty yards, with ninety grains of triple F. I started with fifty and worked my way up. I cleaned between each shot, and tried both .490 and .495 round balls and .015 patches. I guess she ain't no chunk gun, but maybe with a new Green Mountain Barrel from ole Tip C. in cross Plains TN I'll have half a chance. What's the consensus, should I go this route or check into buying a used chunk gun from someone.

I never would have thought of shootin off a scissor jack...
Wayne

[hickstick_10]

Is a chunk gun the same as a slug gun?

If so take a look here.
http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured-articles/blackpowder-slug-guns-precision-paper-punching-machinery.php
http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured-articles/blackpowder-slug-guns-the-mitchell-gun.php

[waksupi]

Hey Guys,
I've been to the range with the TC Renegade with the hopes of making it shoot patched round balls. Not much luck. She's shootin around two inches at sixty yards, with ninety grains of triple F. I started with fifty and worked my way up. I cleaned between each shot, and tried both .490 and .495 round balls and .015 patches. I guess she ain't no chunk gun, but maybe with a new Green Mountain Barrel from ole Tip C. in cross Plains TN I'll have half a chance. What's the consensus, should I go this route or check into buying a used chunk gun from someone.

I never would have thought of shootin off a scissor jack...
Wayne

That's not doing too bad. Did you weigh your bullets? Even factory round balls have variation at times.
For working up loads, if they haven't been weighed, you have a very big variable that can account for that much dispersion.

[DIRT Farmer]

That will get you in the ball park, as Wakuspi said cut your variables. You might also try a thicker patch, and play with several patch lubes/solvents. Some of the Amish shooters will use light rifles in 40 cal and clean the shoot with them. My Great grandfathers over the log rifle was a 28 cal, weighing about 10 lbs, and according the the local stories, he brought home his share of meat with it. Bigger bores should be eisier to get to shoot good and will buck the wind better.

[gee-gaw]

Well...
No I didn't weigh the balls, but I was very through in culling anything that even remotely looked like a reject. This has worked in the past on my other cast projectiles. I'll check the weights this evening when things have slowed-down a bit.
DIRT Farmer,
It's my intentions to try a lighter caliber, the fifty with ninety grains could hurt after a while from the bench while testing. I don't have any thicker patch material as of yet but will remedy that soon. The .495s were pretty hard to start regardless of what lube I tried, had to start em with a hammer.


Thanks for the suggestions guys, seems every post has more fuel for thought.
Wayne

[Shooter]

You're using waaaay too much powder. You are trying to punch a hole in a target, not kill any thing.
Back off to about 50 grains.

[gnoahhh]

A wise old man cautioned me once that the bullet only has to make it as far as the paper.

[waksupi]

For my plinker type round balls, I don't weigh. I just visually inspect them.
However, when you put some seemingly perfect balls in a tumbler, when they come out you will see various dimples and voids that show up, that can not be detected by looking alone. For working up a target load, or serious competition, you really need to weigh them.

[gee-gaw]

Hey waksupi,
That's a good point. I'll get serious about this and do some weighing tonight.

Hey Shooter and gnoahhh,
I was told by a chunk gun builder that you want a lot of velocity so the wind does minimal damage. I like the light loads too!
Wayne

[DIRT Farmer]

Yep some of the guys build them up heavy and use the medium Dixie cup for a powder scoop. If ya shoot fast enough the wind cant move it or so I have heard. In my limited experience I use 70 grns of ffg 495 ball and 20 thou. patching with spit patch because it gets the best group. The best I have did was a 1.72 three shot string from the X, and in that relay qulified for squat.

[Shooter]

I use a.58 to buck wind. We did 3 shots 45 minute time limit, so we could wait out a gust of wind.
Try a light load of fff, and play with patch thickness and lube. Weigh your balls to find voids. I found dipper casting with a large puddle on the sprue plate gave best results.
YMMV

PS are you using shaders? you will be suprised how much the light glare on open sights can through you off. Some matches don't allow them, and you just have to smoke your sights.

To hickstick 10: No, a chunk gun isn't the same as a slug gun.

[northmn]

I did not have a "chunk gun" but ahd a 58 built on a 1 1/8 barrel that I won a state shoot with for overall aggregate and got 3rd place in bench against some zip guns with peep sights. Loading for a gun shot off rests, whether it be X sticks, bench or chunk is as critical as the gun. Teflon patching is getting popular with that type of shooting. Also false muzzles and ball about bore size. Where an offhand rifle in 50 might use a 495, they would use a 500 or larger ball. And so forth.

DP

[FrankG]

Heres a link to Chunkgun Match Shooting.
http://www.muzzleblasts.com/archives/vol3no2/articles/mbo32-1.shtml

I just built myself one with a .45x15/16"x44" Douglas barrel and a Oregon Myrtlewood stock .

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/ModocWrangler/chunky044.jpg

[gee-gaw]

Hey DIRT Farmer,Did you weigh you're balls?

Shooter, I'm not using shaders, I'm using a tang sight that helps a lot to shoot my best.
Plus my range is covered.

What is an acceptable range when weighing balls? I can sure tell that this is a two cavity mould.
Wayne

[gee-gaw]

northmn, how in the world dothey get those over-sized balls down the tube?

FrankG, Geeeee.... that's a nice lookin rifle!!! Don't spose you would loan that to a feller that's way under-gunned for a match or two?
Wayne

[DIRT Farmer]

Yes I weigh the balls for rest matches, for offhand I don't shoot well enough for it to make a differance at least that I can tell.

For loading I have a ball starter that I turned from brass rod that matches the ball and just allowes the patch to form around it so the patch can be cut at the muzzle.

You still need shaders to controll the light varaibles.

[gee-gaw]

Hey DIRT Farmer,
Where do you get the heavy patch material? Like .020 thick stuff. Do you use a mallet to drive you're ball in the muzzle? Just trying to wrap my tiny brain around all this.
Thanks,
Wayne

[Alan]

If you look at the muzzle of custom guns and the muzzle of factory guns, you will see that the customs have rounded edges. You can't start good tight patch/ball combo's in a factory barrel.

Another thing to try is 2F vs. 3F. Sometimes you get smaller velocity deviations with the 2f. Higher velocity will cut the wind's effects, but may not be as accurate. Heavy recoil makes shooting long strings harder. .54's and .58's buck the wind better.

And Everything affects Everything else. 8)

[DIRT Farmer]

I carry a small brass mallet in my shooting box, just a light tap sets the ball in. As Alan said I have a polished crown on the muzzle. I also use ffg, in theroy to start things out smother. The patching comes from The Minuite Man shop. Also try different caps, I use standard CCI # 11s others find better results with other brands. When I find caps I like I try to buy at least a few thousand of the same lot. If I buy some that are not consistant, I can always shoot them in shotgun.

[Shooter]

Shooter, I'm not using shaders, I'm using a tang sight that helps a lot to shoot my best.
Plus my range is covered.

Wayne

All our matches are open non-adjustable sights.
I had a TC Hawkin in .45 that would cut clover leafs with tang a globe sights, but couldn't use it.

[northmn]

As to loading oversized ball. Most really top competition bench type guns have a false muzzle which is tapered to accomodate starting very tight loads. They also are using starter that fit the caliber. I have seen some use a mallet to start their load. I do not know if they are out of fashion but some also used long drop tubes stuck in the muzzle when charging the powder.

DP

[Shooter]

I used a drop funnel for awhile, but it was more cumbersome than it was worth.
I bought and used a "KaDooty" with results I never could completely verifiy.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

If you check the American Long Rifles. org forums in "building" there is a thread on the chunk rifle. It is outstanding. There is also a picture of a chunk gun rest. Be aware that various shoots have somewhat different shooting requirements. There is also an excellent forum on BP shooting there also.

BvT

[gee-gaw]

Man!!! This site never fails to amaze me in just how much knowledge and experience it's members have and are willing to share..

Hey Alan,
Ron Borron told me that he tapers the muzzle on his guns so they load with-out tearing the patch... makes sense to me.

Hey DIRT Farmer,
I'll check-out the minute man shop for some thicker patch material. I would not have thought that changing caps would have any measurable effect, good tip.

Hey Shooter,
I'm hip to the fixed sight thing, I just shoot the peep sooooo much better. I've got the fixed sight ready to install for when I go match shootin. Oh and what's a KaDooty?

Hey northmn,
What's the long drop tube suppose to do?

Hey BVT,
I'll check-out the American Long Rifles forums, thanks

Guys you've all been great help!!! Thanks,
Wayne

[northmn]

The long drop tube in theory was supposed to create a more consistant powder charge without the powder droppin alongside the barrel. Kind of similar to loading a cartridge with a drop tube using BP.

DP

[DIRT Farmer]

The more presicion the shooting the more you try to eliminate varaibles. The Beval brothers did some testing on chunk guns and drop tubes, and if I rembember correctly, found no mesurable gain, however there are others who firmly belive in them.
Ron Boron has been shooting chunk for a while, and has a family history of winning results. He would be a good one to follow.

[Shooter]

Oh and what's a KaDooty?

Thanks,
Wayne

It's a brass range rod with a drop weight that is suppose to consistantly seat your ball on the charge.

It is the best ball puller I have ever used.

There are two kinds of muzzle loader shooters; those who have "Dry Balled" a gun; and those who will.:bigsmyl2: