Material Hardness...??

[Sully]

How to check it? I thought my wife could do it at work for me, but their hardness checker only goes DOWN to Brinnell FIFTY!!! Needless to say that dont do me a lot of good!

All the lead I bought from Evil-Bay said it was for casting bullets..???..and I have it all melted down and cast into pigs so I dont chill the devil our of the pouring mix when I start casting...but here is the main problem.

Per "The Book"...different alloys are diven faster or slower than another alloy. So how can I even guess what my "mix" approaches? I'll bet my last $$ it isnt "pure" lead...but is it close to #2 alloy or linotype alloy?? ( Duhhhhh!) See my dilemma?

Any "rule of thumb" or "crystal ball gazing" most of you guys use and then call it "close enough"..???

[unclebill]

'd like to know that myself.
i have all kinds of jars full of cast boolits.
some i can dent with a fingernail=soft
some i can scratch with a nail=hard
thats all i know.

[stubshaft]

You can cast boolits with anything resembling lead. The problem with flea bay is that it is sometiimes a **** shoot as far as what it actually consists of. Even if you were to check the BHN it would not give you much insight into the components it consists of. If you can dent it with your thumbnail then it is nowhere near being close to #2 or Lino. Scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on the LASC icon and/or go to the top and read the stickies pertaining to alloys and composition.

[Sully]

You can cast boolits with anything resembling lead. The problem with flea bay is that it is sometiimes a **** shoot as far as what it actually consists of. Even if you were to check the BHN it would not give you much insight into the components it consists of. If you can dent it with your thumbnail then it is nowhere near being close to #2 or Lino. Scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on the LASC icon and/or go to the top and read the stickies pertaining to alloys and composition.

OK...I got ya and have bookmarked that page for reading...BUT..you left out a detail that you alluded to...." If you can dent it with your thumbnail then it is nowhere near being close to #2 or Lino"... So is my mix HARDER or SOFTER that say #2 or Lino...if I can dent / scratch it with a thumbnail..???

BTW: I just went and checked them and I can JUST BARELY scratch the surface with a thumbnail. MUCHO harder than a 5 lb hex pig of pure lead I have

[nwellons]

It is still relatively soft if you can scratch it with a fingernail at all. Yours is much softer than linotype.

[Sully]

It is still relatively soft if you can scratch it with a fingernail at all. Yours is much softer than linotype.

There we go. At least now I have an approximation of "hardness". As I had said I KNEW it was mucho softer than the pig of pure lead I have...but other than that...???

Much thanks partner!

[unclebill]

from what i just learned from Glen E. Fryxell
i am blaming the lube on my store bought boolits for leading.
thanks!

[waksupi]

Uh.... make some boolits, and shoot them. Dr. Gun will tell you what it needs.

[unclebill]

Uh.... make some boolits, and shoot them. Dr. Gun will tell you what it needs.

uh
i have a LOT of these store boughts and i am going to shoot them 1st.
they are the right diameter but they lead even at moderate speeds.
they lead all my .357's

[Matt_G]

Here's a thread you'll probably find interesting.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=75455

[unclebill]

Here's a thread you'll probably find interesting.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=75455

i was looking for that!
thanks buddy!
i couldnt remember what it was called or what the deal was so i couldnt look it up for myself.

[onondaga]

Hi Sully, A recent post outlines a novel and simple test:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=75455

I use the Lee Hardness test Kit with my loading press. It fits the press like any other die and is simple to use and then check the indentations it makes with the small scope provided in the kit to determine BHN hardness:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=731364

Gary

[geargnasher]

uh
i have a LOT of these store boughts and i am going to shoot them 1st.
they are the right diameter but they lead even at moderate speeds.
they lead all my .357's

If they lead even at moderate speeds, that should be your first indicator that they might NOT be the right diameter. Even fairly soft alloy with a half-decent lube can be shot at "moderate" speeds in a .357 Magnum if the boolits are the right size.

I didn't follow the links, but there was something posted here recently about testing lead alloy with a #2 pencil, sounds like just the "seat of the pants" kind of test you need to get in the ballpark.

Richard Lee's theories on boolit alloy hardness/pressure/velocity should be taken as guidelines at best, there is no real way to chart what will or will not work with a given mystery ingot and gun.

Gear

[stubshaft]

OK...I got ya and have bookmarked that page for reading...BUT..you left out a detail that you alluded to...." If you can dent it with your thumbnail then it is nowhere near being close to #2 or Lino"... So is my mix HARDER or SOFTER that say #2 or Lino...if I can dent / scratch it with a thumbnail..???

BTW: I just went and checked them and I can JUST BARELY scratch the surface with a thumbnail. MUCHO harder than a 5 lb hex pig of pure lead I have

Sorry sully I did forget to mention that it is alot softer. For a subjective test you can use the "1 foot - 1 pound" method. What you do is cast a 1 lb ingot of pure lead and a 1 lb ingot of lino. Raise it 1 foot off of a hard (concrete preferred) surface and drop them. The pure will most likely make a dull thud. The lino/mono will actuall make a ringing sound. Not very scientific but it may allow you to be able to discern the potential hardness of an alloy when you go shopping around at the scrap yards.

[waksupi]

After the clarification, I still say, if it is ingots, cast it, and see what it does. If it is pre-cast bullets, I would almost bet they would lead. They are not the right size, from your description. Best thing to do with commercial boolits,is melt them down, and make some good ones.

[unclebill]

sound advice all.
thank you

[Bret4207]

How to check it? I thought my wife could do it at work for me, but their hardness checker only goes DOWN to Brinnell FIFTY!!! Needless to say that dont do me a lot of good!

All the lead I bought from Evil-Bay said it was for casting bullets..???..and I have it all melted down and cast into pigs so I dont chill the devil our of the pouring mix when I start casting...but here is the main problem.

Per "The Book"...different alloys are diven faster or slower than another alloy. So how can I even guess what my "mix" approaches? I'll bet my last $$ it isnt "pure" lead...but is it close to #2 alloy or linotype alloy?? ( Duhhhhh!) See my dilemma?

Any "rule of thumb" or "crystal ball gazing" most of you guys use and then call it "close enough"..???

Here we go again. Bhn doesn't matter at this point. Cast as perfect boolits as you can, size them to fit your gun (or don't size at all for that matter!) and load to what the alloy, gun, design and lube want. Simple as that. Later on, after you see what this alloy will or won;t do and after you've explored proper fit, lube, pressure, etc. then you can worry about Bhn, toughness, shear strength, ductility, etc.

The single worst thing ever published about cast was this Bhn krap!

[Sully]

OK guys! Im going to cast some and size them with my RCBS luber/sizer ( .429 diameter sizer...at this point)...cast and lube some without sizing ( measuring them as cast and later on to see what sort of growth or shrinkage I get) and the "alloy" is what it is. Its definitely NOT HARD...but at this point cant tell how soft it really is.

Im in the process of getting a .440 round ball mold to make some round balls to tap down thru the barrel to check its actual diameter as a dimensional check starting point.

Thanks a lot guys!

[MtGun44]

"they are the right diameter but they lead even at moderate speeds.
they lead all my .357's "

If you get leading, esp at moderate speeds and in many guns, the most likely thing is
that they are NOT the right diameter, they are too small.

FIT is king! Read Bret's post again.

As to the Sully post above - IMO, a .429 die has a pretty good chance of being too small
for many .44s. Try what you already have, but if leading occurs or poor accy, the FIRST thing to do
is to go up to .430. My very first issue was a darned .429 sizer die because EVERYBODY KNOWS
that is the "RIGHT SIZE" for a .44. Maybe, sometimes, but not with my guns, and not real often. . . . . .

Bill

[unclebill]

i guess my ruger, contender and S&W all take a .359 instead of the .358

[Sully]

"they are the right diameter but they lead even at moderate speeds.
they lead all my .357's "

If you get leading, esp at moderate speeds and in many guns, the most likely thing is
that they are NOT the right diameter, they are too small.

FIT is king! Read Bret's post again.

As to the Sully post above - IMO, a .429 die has a pretty good chance of being too small
for many .44s. Try what you already have, but if leading occurs or poor accy, the FIRST thing to do
is to go up to .430. My very first issue was a darned .429 sizer die because EVERYBODY KNOWS
that is the "RIGHT SIZE" for a .44. Maybe, sometimes, but not with my guns, and not real often. . . . . .

Bill

A .429 is the one I bought for my RCBS luber/sizer....but I have to see what actual size they are coming out of the mold....and what size they "grow" to be. Some will get sized...some wont....but all will get lubed either by pan lubing OR theu the sizer / luber...??

A guy has to start somewhere???

[Bret4207]

Start with what you have Sully, but as Bill said, don't be surprised if you .429 sizer isn;t what you need. In fact, I strongly suggest in addition to measuring the boolits as they drop you measure them with a good mic as they come out of the sizer. Not all sizers give you the marked diameter. It may well be .429 dead on or it may be .4283 or .4302. No way to tell till you see what your alloy comes out at.

On this Bhn thing, let me try this another way- Instead of people worrying over a Bhn number and getting their panties in a wad because what they have doesn't fit a preconceived notion as to what they think they just have to have, better we step back and see what the alloy we already have will do, work on fit and pressure and get some good shooting in. You can juice your allot all you want till it measures up in the 30's or more and it'll still lead like crazy and shoot wildly if it doesn't fit.

Start at square one. Bhn is way down the list, fit is at the top.

[Sully]

Bret4207:..I got ya...!