Cast in the .30-06 for Hogs?

[John 242]

I have the opportunity to go hog hunting in a couple of weeks and I need some advice. I have thought about using a Savage 110 in .30-06 that I haven’t shot with cast yet. Most of my cast shooting has been with my mil-surp rifles (Mosin, Enfield) although I’ve been planning to do some .30-06 cast load development, anyway. The problem is that the only moulds I have (or will have soon) is a Lyman 314299, and a Lee 312-185-1R. I bought these moulds for plinking and target shooting and in my mind, they really aren’t moulds that cast ‘hunting’ boolits. When I think of hunting boolits, I think of flat, wide meplats that cause much tissue damage. I am unsure about trying to either of these two cast boolits or whether I should just go with j-bullets. I have some 150 gr Sierra Spitzers sitting on my shelf in the garrage.

The hunt is on the 18th of February but I won’t be home on leave until the 13th or so. Not exactly a lot of time for load development, but I’ll have a few days. Worst-case scenario I save the cast boolits for another time. Worser-case (is that a word?) scenario is that I shoot and wound a pig and it runs off and I never find it. Pigs are pests in Texas, but I am a fan of eating pork.

By the way, this will be the first hunt in which I have a good chance of taking an animal bigger than a rabbit. In other words, I have no experience with big game.
Well, I appreciate whatever advice you all have to give.
Thanks,
John

[Linstrum]

Hey, John242, congratulations on your first "big game" hunt! I would not be afraid to use the Lee 312-185-1R cast in wheel weight alloy IF you have slugged your bore and made darned sure you have your boolit about 0.002 of an inch larger than the groove diameter. The powder I would use is a full case slightly compressed load of WC860. If you aren't sure of your ammo then use commercial jacketed ammo, though, speaking for myself I would NEVER risk wounding an animal and have it suffer just because I wanted to use cast boolits. However, 185-grain cast in a .30-06 is more than adequate for pigs and I don't see you having a problem.

rl933

[missionary5155]

Greetings
+1 on the above. Lots of fellers using the SKS to pop piggies with cast which would amount to a light load for any of your mentioned rifles.
Why not take the Moslin or Enfield ? You have proven loads and they are more than adequete to topple a rooter. I would not hesistate to take my 303 savage made battle riffle.
But for any of my 30-06 rifles I would go with a GC 180 grainer + anywhere from 1800-2100 fps. Up close smack that pig through the ear or farther away through the lower lungs into the heart. BIG pigs are tough through the shoulders but the average snooter out there is not armor plated and very suseptable to rifle boolits.

[RugerFan]

I wouldn't hesitate to use either one of those moulds for hogs. Velocity needed depends on the distance you'll shoot. 2000 fps would give a certain comfort zone, but you could get away with less. More often than not, I would aim to bust em through the shoulders. On a really big boar you may want to aim behind the shoulder or at the head.

[northmn]

I am not really all that knowledgeable on hogs but in a larger capacity 30 cal I would use the 311299 i it is the 200 grain bullet. I have shot the 321185 Lee sized to 309 in my 30-30 and taken a few deer with it. I use the flat nose punch when sizing it and put a small flat nose on it to work in the Marlin tube. My alloy is about 1/2 WW and 1/2 lead which I heat treat after sizing. To get a soft nose I put the bases in a pan of water and anneal the noses with a propane torch. Don't really have to do a lot of them for hunting. Lube them with Lee liquid alox in 2-3 coats and finget lube the grooves when loading. At 1950 it has been a very good load on deer. Have not recovered any bullets yet as it shoots through but it did an excellent job on a large doe at 140 yards. Shot a deer with the 303 and a 200 grain Lee bullet and was also very impressed. The alloy works very well for me with heat treatment.

DP

[John 242]

The hunt I’m going on will be from out of a blind and likely somewhere near a feeder. I don’t know the exact details, but the range should be less than 100 yards. Since I am very inexperienced, I’d like to keep my range about half that distance. This hunt starts early morning and is about half a day long.

My current loads for the Mosin (91-30) and the Enfield (1916 BSA SMLE Mk. III*) are 10 to 12 grains of Unique with the 314299, Lar’s 50/50 lube and a Hornady gas check. I get just over 1 ½ inch groups at 50m with the Mosin and just over 2 inches with the Enfield from the bench. I’d love to use either one of my Mil-Surps to hunt with, but I worry about shot placement. Although the range should be relatively short, this is my first big game hunt and a rare opportunity for me, so I am kind of nervous.

The consensus seems that around 2000 fps is where I need to be. I don’t have my Lyman cast manual here with me, but I think Unique is not going to cut it. I don’t know where it tops out at. I do have some IMR 4895 at home, so that may be an option, or I can pick up a can of something else. Maybe a can of WC860?

I size my boolits to either to groove diameter, or .001 over. The Enfield is a little large. It’s a five groove and I would guess that it’s about .315 or larger. The muzzle swallows the nose of the 314299 all the way to the first driving band with just a little push. Accuracy is mediocre in my opinion, although Hornady 150 gr. j-bullets shoot quite a bit better. I have a 311365 (.316 5-cav) on order through NOE although I doubt it will show up before my leave is over.

I want to thank you all for the good advice. I appreciate it. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Once I get home I’ll start working up loads and see what I can do.

[Larry Gibson]

John

If the muzzle of your Savage will take the 314299 then that's the bullet I would use. I would cast them of 50/50 WW/lead alloy and let them air cool. I'd size at .311 and use a good lube such as Javelina. I'd also use Hornady GCs (I also make my own but Hornady's are very good). I'd load them over 30 gr of H4895 with a 3/4 gr dacron filler. I 'd seat the bullet so the top of the GC is not below the case neck and farther out if the leade allows it. I'd zero the rifle shooting 5 shot groups at 100 yards and cleaning the barrel between each group. I'd zero point of aim at point of impact at 100 yards. I've hunted from stands over feeders in the Texas Hill country and the longest shot to afeeder was 124 yards.

The heart on a pig lies low in the chest on line with the rear of the leg given the pig is standing broadside with legs straight down. Regardless of the angle I'd but the bullet about 1/4 of the way up from the bottom of the chst/brisket and through the heart zone. Don't rely on the "behind the shoulder/leg shot" as the shoulder/leg may be in the wrong place vs the heart. Just visualize where th eart is and put the bullet there, again, regardless of the angle. The soft cast 314299 at a probable 1900 fps will expand and give all the penetration needed. BTW; I'd also pass on a "Texas heart shot" and wait for a better one.

Good luck and good hunting.

Larry Gibson

[GabbyM]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=32&pictureid=939

[northmn]

Picture kind of shows why hogs have a reputation as being so tough, many folks are not hitting them well. Looks like you have to go through shoulder muscle to hit lungs. Some say that about African game. Definitely would want to use the 200 grain bullet if I had it.

DP

[EMC45]

I have the Lee 312-185 mold as well. With pure clip ons it drops at 192gr. for me. If that bullet shoots good out of the Mosin I would say go for it. I think 12gr. Unique would silence a pig for sure. But it may top out on FPS too soon for your liking. I killed 2 deer with a 45-70 with 14.5gr. Unique and never recovered a bullet. Remember whatever you choose.....Aim Breathe Squeeze..

[John 242]

I would like to thank everyone for all the helpful information.

Mr. Gibson, I appreciate your thorough reply. You all have given me a lot of useful information. When I get home, I am going to do some load development based on the advice that I have received in this thread. I am convinced that it is practical to use the 314299 for my hog hunt. Now I just need put the theory into practice by loading up some ammo and testing the results on paper.

The picture of the hog’s vitals makes it pretty clear, at least to me, that smashing through the foreleg should put the bullet into the heart or other vitals on a flank shot.

I would like to take this opportunity to say that although I visit other forums, I have consistently found the members here to be exceptionally helpful and knowledgeable. Thank you.
John

[Ed in North Texas]

GabbyM, Thanks for the picture. I have a 9 year old grandson who wants to go hog hunting and that is a great training aid for him.

[Thumbcocker]

My friend has a savage in .308 and it has a tight throat. It will not chamber an .311041 clone sized .311. Let us know how your load development turns out.

[x101airborne]

If you are going to eat them, if it is OK for you to, I would shoot em straight through the shoulders and just shoot two. The shoulders dont have much meat on them anyway and you really take the run out of em. If you are not planning on eating them, if it is OK, kill em all and shoot em through the shoulders.

[John 242]

My friend has a savage in .308 and it has a tight throat. It will not chamber an .311041 clone sized .311. Let us know how your load development turns out.

I won't be able to do any shooting for the next couple of days. I haven't made it home yet, but I will be enroute, soon. I will have only a few days to settle on a load, cast up some bullets and get zeroed. Kind of a lot to do with only a short time to do it.
I should also slug my bore because I have no idea what to size the bullets to, other than a generic .310 or so.

I will report my success, or lack there of.

Thanks,
John

[John 242]

If you are going to eat them, if it is OK for you to, I would shoot em straight through the shoulders and just shoot two. The shoulders dont have much meat on them anyway and you really take the run out of em. If you are not planning on eating them, if it is OK, kill em all and shoot em through the shoulders.

Definately planning on eating them, if I happen to get one or two.
It would be nice shoot a pig or two, but I'm thankful to get the oportunity.

Thanks,
John

[GH1]

How did your hunt go, John?
GH1

[Smoke-um if you got-um]

Ditto - Been watching the post to see how you did and what load you chose ?

Mike

[John 242]

I know that some of you are wondering how things went.

My plane arrived in Killeen on Tuesday afternoon, after 18 hours of flying and about 3 days of traveling. I spent the next couple of days getting reacquainted with my wife and kids, so that when I finally got around to preparing for the pig hunt I was kind of behind the power curve.

The Load-
The Cast bullet load I wanted to go with was approximately 27 grains of AA 5744, a 314299 sized to .310 with gas check and a CCI primer, but I simply did not have time to cast, develop a load, re-zero before the pig hunt started on Friday. Instead, I went with the load that my Savage 110 was already zeroed for- a 130 grain Speer FP with 47.5 grains of IMR 4895 and a CCI primer. I feel like I cheated by not using a cast bullet, but having to drag out all of my reloading and casting equipment after being gone for six months while having only a couple of days to get everything squared away was a little more stress than I needed.

The Hunt-
Fort Hood was offering a semi-guided pig hunt from Friday to Monday that was broken down into two segments of morning and evening hunts. I participated in most of the hunts, but missed Fridays evening hunt and Sundays morning hunt. The guides (volunteers) placed us hunters in stands located throughout the northern Fort Hood live fire area. Once in the stand, we were told not to get out and wander around. The stands were set up to over-watch known pig avenues of approach or feeders located between 75 to 120 meters away.

The Results-
I didn't’t see anything except for a few bunny rabbits that showed up at dusk to eat some corn. I know at least one pig was taken along with a couple of coyotes, but overall the hunting was pretty slow. I never fired my rifle. On Monday morning, I brought my 12-year-old son out with me for a little male bonding and he was able to see a hog caught in a trap and a dead coyote, so I think he had a good time. He wanted to go back out for the Monday night hunt so I brought him along for that, too.

On Friday afternoon, Fort Hood put game management personnel up in helicopters and shot pigs in the area that we were hunting in. I would assume that the aerial shooting put enough pressure on the pigs to cause them to stay hidden during the day. Why they chose to shoot pigs from a helicopter on the same day and in the same area as a scheduled guided pig hunt only leaves me guessing.

Overall, although I am a little disappointed for not seeing any hogs, I at least was able to participate and had a good time doing so. The guides, all volunteers, were great and really wanted us hunters to be able to take a hog. They have spent countless hours moving and filling feeders and working on the wooden stands throughout the training area. I really appreciate their efforts. I learned a lot and I will be more prepared in the future.

I have a week and a half left of leave so I’m going to work on a accurate cast bullet load for my Savage so that I will be better prepared next time.

Thanks for everyone’s help and encouragement.
John

[Linstrum]

Hey, John! Thanks for your report, sorry it turned out so dismal as far as the hunt went.

Have fun on your leave time, especially with your family. I was without my dad for awhile when I was your son's age and I know what it feels like, so keep up the "bonding", it is as good for him as it is for you!


rl961

[pls1911]

Late post, so i hope you had a good hunt.
Look again at the picture in the above post.
Think:"Center of mass, above the font leg."
Result shoulder & spine shot drops 'em in their tracks.
With a 150, 165, or 175 grain cast bullet, heat treated, pushed at 1900 fps from a 30-30.