Large boolits in 4inch barrel?

[glw]

I'm considering cutting my 44 mag Super Redhawk with 7.5 inch barrel to about 4.5 inches. My concern is that the shorter barrel will not produce enough velocity for the 310 grn Lee boolit to stabilize. I currently like to shoot that boolit with 20 grns of Lil gun (yeah, I've read the threads about Lil Gun). Most of the time I will be shooting 429421s with 10 grains of Unique, but I still want to be able to shoot the heavier boolits.

Can anyone shed any light on this? While I want the increased portability and lighter weight of the shorter barrel, I don't want to compromise the usefulness of the gun.

Thanks!
Glenn

[excess650]

I shot 300gr JHPs from my 5-1/2" with WW296, and it was very accurate at 50 yards, enough so that I SOLD my 7-1/2".

[Bret4207]

I think you'll be okay, but you'll devalue the gun if that's a concern.

[Bass Ackward]

Let's look at this from another angle.

How much MORE portable is a Super Redhawk going to be with any length barrel?

Personally, I would leave it for what it is and eventually pick up something more portable with a shorter barrel if that is what you want.

Or consider a cross draw or shoulder holster. They essentially eliminate barrel length from the equation.

This is like asking if a tank will make a good sports car if I just remove the big gun.

[beagle]

I once shot a bunch ( a summer's worth of shooting) of 317 grain Keith H & Gs from a Model 29 Smith and had no problems with WW296 and H110.

The muzzle blast was fierce and the short sight radius bugged me some but they were as accurate as my longer barrelled guns and carried a heck of a lot better.

I like long barrelled guns but they just don't make it when it comes to carrying one in the field. I once had one of the Smith M29s with the 10 5.8" sillouhette barrel and sights. Loved it but you needed wheels on the thing to move it around./beagle

[NHlever]

I've shot the .454 Casull Ruger Alaskan's at 50 feet indoors, and have gotten good groups with them. On the other had I shot heavy loads of H-110 from a Ruger Vaquero 5 1/2" .45 Colt using the Lee 300 gr. RF, and it would only stabilize to 50 yards, or so. Other's have had good luck with that combo, but I got obvious signs of tipping at 75 yards, and groups were more like shotgun patterns at 100 yards with very obvious tipping. I got good accuracy to 100 yards anyway ( limit of our range) using the same loads in my Marlin Cowboy rifle with a 24" barrel. I haven't bought a .44 300 grain mold yet, partly because of that experience, but I do have some commercial 300 gr. cast .44 bullets to try when things warm just a touch. (-3° here this morning)

[NSP64]

I would sell it and buy a short barreled gun. Maybe a taurus or smith(someone with a tighter twist).

[Three44s]

I'm with Bass Ackward.

I would devise a different carry strategy first.

I own a 7.5" Redhawk, 9.5" SRH and a 4" Mountain Gun all in .44 mag.

And I would opt for carrying your 7.5 differently for a time and buying another gun in the length you seek and selling the longer one if you can't or don't justify more than one .44 in your "stable".

If I were to chose JUST ONE barrel length for all around at this point, I'd go with about 5.5 to 6" in the SRH as I bought mine expressly for a barrel chop project. (I already had the Smith) ...............

And when it was all said and done, after I installed the "One Ragged Hole" appeture sight and Ruger front gold bead and painted it black with a laundry pen ......... I fell in love with it and could not bear to chop that 9.5" SRH anymore!!

In fact my DAD who hates handguns ..... loves that long barreled revolver and admonished me for even thinking about shortening it! He said why not get it tappered instead? (He's big on long sight radius!)

Now ...... if I was going to buy an ideal gun off the shelf, I'd go between the 5.5 or 4 in Redhawk.

I don't think that twist and barrel length with heavy boolits are as much of an issue as the burn opportunity with powders the likes of H110 in real short tubes.

In my 4" Smith, I don't see much if any advantage from H110 and there for top out at 2400 in it and 250 RCBS 250K's. Much of that is because of the lighter frame of the Smith but a short barrel is a short barrel regardless of frame dimensions.

If you are dead set on getting a real short SRH, I'd just get an Alaskan and be done with it because at 4.5" on the original SRH, I think you are not going to have much to remount a front sight on the barrel?

Three 44s

[LAH]

My concern is that the shorter barrel will not produce enough velocity for the 310 grn Lee boolit to stabilize. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Thanks!
Glenn

Your concerned about nothing. It's your sixgun, cut it, the bullet will be fine with that load.

[NVScouter]

I was having the same Dilema with my Blackhawk in 45LC.

I ended up buying a new 45LC Redhawk with a 4" barrel and now I have both. To be hones when I shoot my 340g in both the 7 3/4 is more accurate but velocity is close enough. I shoot my 4" to 100 and the 7 3/4 to 200yads.

[fredj338]

I've shot that same bullet in my 4" M29, maybe 1000fps. It shoots fine for what I want a heavy to do in a short bbl. That is provide a reasonable accurate 25yd load for stopping a large carnivore.

[44man]

I HATE anything under 6" to 7-1/2" but be aware that a slow powder is easier on a boolit even in a short barrel although it can't all burn.
You might lose some velocity and long range accuracy but you will not be shooting at deer at 100 yards either.
A SRH is a big gun and if you think cutting the barrel makes it better to carry, what you lose just does not cover it.
A big revolver should not be carried on the hip and even if it is, a few inches more to clear leather means nothing. You will get a sore back long before you need to draw it.
If you need a back up gun, get a lighter one but you better learn to control it.

[NVScouter]

I HATE anything under 6" to 7-1/2" but be aware that a slow powder is easier on a boolit even in a short barrel although it can't all burn.
You might lose some velocity and long range accuracy but you will not be shooting at deer at 100 yards either.
A SRH is a big gun and if you think cutting the barrel makes it better to carry, what you lose just does not cover it.
A big revolver should not be carried on the hip and even if it is, a few inches more to clear leather means nothing. You will get a sore back long before you need to draw it.
If you need a back up gun, get a lighter one but you better learn to control it.

My 4" Redhawk is heavier then my 7 3/4 Blackhawk FYI.

[targetshootr]

That's a big ol gun for 44 cal. You could swap it for something lighter and easier to carry. Once you chop the barrel the value may go down. Elmer Keith regularly took game at 100 yds with his 4" 29s.

[glw]

Thank you for the information, everyone. It seems like the heavy bullets will still work fine in the shorter barrel, but most people don't recommend that I cut it. I do have a nice leather crossdraw holster for it, but it isn't as handy as I would like it to be. I open carry a handgun on most days, with some days concealing it under a suit coat. With crossdraw I can't conceal it. I am currently carry a GP-100. I estimate that the SRH with cut barrel will weigh about 49 ounces, thereby weighing about 8 or 9 ounces more than the GP-100.

I don't like the metal gripframe on the Redhawk or S&W 29, since that will increase the recoil into my hand. Neither the Redhawk or square-butt 29 work with my hand, though the round-butt 29 fits fine. I don't have the money to buy another gun outright, so I either have to work with what I have or sell what I have and buy something else. I like the SRH--it is strong, reliable, and has a nice grip (wood and rubber Hogues work well for me). It is heavy, which does cause some concern for me. My back isn't great, so maybe I need to find a round-butt 29.

Any other suggestions would be great. I appreciate the collective wisdom of everyone here. I don't post much, but I read and learn a lot.

Glenn

[44man]

Big, heavy guns are just that. They are not for everyday carry. They are hunting guns and any on a hip is crazy. I either have mine in hand or a shoulder holster because I am hunting with them, not secondary guns. I use slings on my hunting revolvers.
Only my Vaquero is at home in a hip holster. But it is still 7-1/2" and I have taken deer over 100 yards with it.
With a good knee hold, etc, short barrels work fine and practice can make you good.
The thing is that making a very large revolver shorter does not gain you anything because it is still a huge hunk of iron.

[Jack Stanley]

Perhaps my expereience has no basis here because the heaviest bullet I use is two hundred and fifty grains and the longest barrel is six inches . The biggest critters I ventilate with that is the white-tails rats that infest the corn and beans around here . So far iron sights at forty yards has done the job without any runoffs .

But , deer hunting and running a chainsaw are two different things . To kill the deer about all I gotta do is carry the gun out to the log I intend to lay it on untill a target shows up . When running a saw , the four inch twenty-nine under a coat is about the biggest I want to carry .

Whether it's you or me though , as long as we practice I don't believe we give up much .

Jack

[targetshootr]

I like how a square butt N frame feels. And the RH. But I don't shoot a lot of screaming loads. I guess it all depends on the shooter. I saw a guy turn his hands red after half a dozen rounds through a 475 Bisley which is about as easy on recoil as you can get.

[44man]

I like how a square butt N frame feels. And the RH. But I don't shoot a lot of screaming loads. I guess it all depends on the shooter. I saw a guy turn his hands red after half a dozen rounds through a 475 Bisley which is about as easy on recoil as you can get.
Not so, a Bisley hurts me! :coffeecom

[blaster]

I'd cut it back to 2.5". I always thought that super redhawk looked like a snub nose someone hooked some extra tube to anyway. FYI Ruger makes a redhawk 44 mag in about the length (4.2) your are looking at and I'm sure you could sell the super and buy the 4.2 regular and come out on top by avoiding the gun smithing fees.

[targetshootr]

Not so, a Bisley hurts me! :coffeecom

If I had my druthers, my Rugers would all have FA style grip frames. I bet some industrious machinist could sell a few if someone would just take the time to make em.

[6bg6ga]

If you don't like the length then sell it. Cutting it down will take away from the value.

[Elby]

One of my very favorite handguns is my 3" M629. Shorten that barrel, I say!

[bhn22]

I have the same revolver, and am looking at doing the same to mine. I've chosen 5.5 inches, hoping to be able to remold a holster I already have to fit. The Super has a better trigger system than the std redhawk, and I have mine exactly the way I want it. I just lapped the barrel, and my Super shoots very well for me. I just need something more belt-portable. I'm looking at the Wiegand front sight system, the one that uses replaceable blades like the 629 S&W does. I would much rather do a Bowen GP44 conversion, but the price is prohibitive. I would buy an Alaskan & a std Redhawk & still have money left over.

Go ahead. Cut it if that's what you want to do. Super Redhawks are not collectible anyway, and if you get more utility from it, than it's probably worth doing.

[fredj338]

Thank you for the information, everyone. It seems like the heavy bullets will still work fine in the shorter barrel, but most people don't recommend that I cut it. I do have a nice leather crossdraw holster for it, but it isn't as handy as I would like it to be. I open carry a handgun on most days, with some days concealing it under a suit coat. With crossdraw I can't conceal it. I am currently carry a GP-100. I estimate that the SRH with cut barrel will weigh about 49 ounces, thereby weighing about 8 or 9 ounces more than the GP-100.

I don't like the metal gripframe on the Redhawk or S&W 29, since that will increase the recoil into my hand. Neither the Redhawk or square-butt 29 work with my hand, though the round-butt 29 fits fine. I don't have the money to buy another gun outright, so I either have to work with what I have or sell what I have and buy something else. I like the SRH--it is strong, reliable, and has a nice grip (wood and rubber Hogues work well for me). It is heavy, which does cause some concern for me. My back isn't great, so maybe I need to find a round-butt 29.

Any other suggestions would be great. I appreciate the collective wisdom of everyone here. I don't post much, but I read and learn a lot.

Glenn
Just change grips. There are dozens of grip options for most revolvers. The stock S&W grips have always been krap. Something like a Hogue smooth, perfect! I would have no issue cutting a bbl. Shoot it enough, the value is gone anyway.

[pistolman44]

I shoot A 300GR GC out of my Dan Wesson 4". It's not a pleasant round to shoot but it is accurate.

[44man]

If I had my druthers, my Rugers would all have FA style grip frames. I bet some industrious machinist could sell a few if someone would just take the time to make em.
I have very large hands, some love them and some hate them.

[Shuz]

It seems to me that altering a revolver as you describe, is a lose/lose situation. You lose a lot of money trying to obtain what you may not like, and you definitely lose value on the gun you modified if you go to sell it.
I think a better option would be to try a 5 inch Smith 629 Classic to "get a feel" for the bbl length, weight, sight radius etc. and if you like it...trade your Ruger for it.
I have a couple of 5 in 629 Classic Smiths and I shoot 250 to 300g cast boolits and everything in between, all the time. I also hunt with these revolvers and find they are not too heavy to wear on the hip, even the scoped one! However, I do wear suspenders when I hunt. That really helps.--Shuz

[glw]

Thanks for all the good comments. I really appreciate them. And they are the same type of thoughts that I have been wrestling with.

Bhn22, your thoughts are exactly mine. I was hoping that Ruger would have come out with a 5-shot 44 special in the GP-100, but that hasn't happened. And the conversion costs are too high.

I looked at a 4 inch Redhawk. The grips are all wrong for me. I have to bend my wrist forward to pull the front sight down. It is an unnatural angle for me. The same thing happens with the square-butt Smiths. The round-butt Smiths work fine, though.

I prefer the strength and longevity of the Rugers over the Smiths, though I do like the Smith's triggers better. I'm not as concerned about resale value, as I don't plan on selling it. And if I did sell it, I don't know that it won't retain its value, as it might be just the thing that someone wants. They aren't collectable, for sure.

I am a little concerned that it might still be a little too heavy, but I don't know. Taking off about 3 inches of barrel should take off roughly 5 ounces of weight, which is quite a bit.

Glenn

[bhn22]

You can have a GP100 converted to 10mm, and feed it with moon clips. Still, you have to buy a revolver ($500.00), then pay for the conversion ($675.00).

http://www.clementscustomguns.com/rugerdarevolvers.html

He also offers 5 shot 44 Spl conversions. I kind of wonder if he has any new ideas for Super Redhawks.

There are also Alaskan conversions offered by other gunsmiths.

To me, S&W has priced themselves out of the market with new 629s just under $900.00 at our local dealers. Handgun prices are crazy!

[glw]

Hi BHN22,

I saw the Clements options. I would probably want a 41 Special over a 10mm, but it shouldn't be much difference. The 44 Special option is nice (I have a GP-100), but I don't have 1250 to spend.

I like the Wiegand front sight that you mentioned in an earlier post. If I go through with the project (and I think it is likely), I will probably go with that sight. I was going to reuse the factory sight, but I never liked the looks of it that much, and silver soldering adds to the project cost.

One problem I am finding is that there is a backlog at the gun shops for cutting the barrel. One guy I called is one and a half years behind. Others are behind by a couple of months, though that isn't too bad. One shop wanted 250 to do the job--ouch! I have been considering cutting the barrel myself and crowning it with an 11 degree cutter. I would then also recut the forcing cone 11 degrees. Then I would have to have a shop install the Wiegand sight.

Glenn

[Ole]

I have a Ruger Alaskan 2.5" and a Ruger Redhawk 7.5" and I lose about 200fps on full power 265 gr lead boolit loads with H110 from the shorter barrel. (1300 vs 1500)

I think you'll be fine.

[glw]

Hi Ole,

How portable is your Alaskan compared to your 7.5 inch Redhawk? A noticable difference?

And thanks for the info on the velocity. That sounds great!

Glenn

[Ole]

Hi Ole,

How portable is your Alaskan compared to your 7.5 inch Redhawk? A noticable difference?

And thanks for the info on the velocity. That sounds great!

Glenn

My Alaskan is about the same size as my 4" GP100. Very easy to carry.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh280/Ole1830/Alaskan%2044/IMG_5337.jpg

I bought it as a toy, but i'd much rather tote this thing around vs my 7.5" Redhawk. It's not that much of a difference in weight, but the difference in how they carry is night and day.

BTW, the gun will group pretty good if you can avoid the dreaded flinch:

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh280/Ole1830/Alaskan%2044/DSC00072.jpg

5 outta 6 @ 12 yards ain't bad. :mrgreen:

[targetshootr]

I think you could get a 6 shot 41 spl on a GP. I've seen the same cal done on L frame Smiths which have nearly the same cylinder specs. I'm having a 41 spl GP done now using a rebored Python barrel, just for grins. Matter of fact, six shot 41 mag Pythons turn up from time to time and they're the same size gun.

[fredj338]

Thanks for all the good comments. I really appreciate them. And they are the same type of thoughts that I have been wrestling with.

Bhn22, your thoughts are exactly mine. I was hoping that Ruger would have come out with a 5-shot 44 special in the GP-100, but that hasn't happened. And the conversion costs are too high.

I looked at a 4 inch Redhawk. The grips are all wrong for me. I have to bend my wrist forward to pull the front sight down. It is an unnatural angle for me. The same thing happens with the square-butt Smiths. The round-butt Smiths work fine, though.

I prefer the strength and longevity of the Rugers over the Smiths, though I do like the Smith's triggers better. I'm not as concerned about resale value, as I don't plan on selling it. And if I did sell it, I don't know that it won't retain its value, as it might be just the thing that someone wants. They aren't collectable, for sure.

I am a little concerned that it might still be a little too heavy, but I don't know. Taking off about 3 inches of barrel should take off roughly 5 ounces of weight, which is quite a bit.

Glenn

Again JUST CHANGE GRIPS. The beauty of a revolver is you can make it fit anyones hands. I would love to have a 4" RRH in 45colt, but the grips would definitely go in the trash & replaced by a set of Hogue wood.

[bhn22]

Again JUST CHANGE GRIPS. The beauty of a revolver is you can make it fit anyones hands. I would love to have a 4" RRH in 45colt, but the grips would definitely go in the trash & replaced by a set of Hogue wood.


Redhawks & Super Redhawks have different grip frames, and it is impossible to make them feel the same. Redhawks have a full grip frame that even Hogues can't make fit me. Supers have a grip stud, like the GP100, and even use the same grips. Hogues are very comfortable (for me) on a Super, or GP100.

[stubert]

You need to think about another revolver. I carry a 5 shot .44 special 2.5". I keep it stoked with Lyman devastators. They weigh 268 grains lubed and checked. If you're wearing a suit, You're not worried about animals. I do have the Lee c310 bullet for use in my redhawk, it is very accurate but I don't consider it a carry boolit.

[glw]

Thanks, Ole. That is helpful info. And the picture of them together is helpful, too.

Hi Fred, changing the grips does not seem to solve the problem for me. I tried this with a square-butt S&W Model 10, and I never found a grip that solved the problem with the angle. I still have to twist my wrist down to align the sights. I don't have that problem with the Hogues (both wood and rubber) on the GP & SRH. I held a Redhawk with the rubber Hogue grips, and I had to twist my wrist for that, too. The gripframe is just wrong for my hands.

Hi Stubert, I wouldn't mind a 5-shot 44, but the only ones available are Taurus, Charter, and the S&W Nighthawk. For various reasons I am not interested in any of though I have looked at the Charter and S&W. I want to use the gun for dual purposes, both for self-defense and for hunting. I don't plan to use the 310 for self-defense, but I do want the option for hunting. I would use a lighter bullet for defense. From past experience shooting off-hand, I think that I would shoot the SRH better with a shorter barrel. I know that not everyone has that same experience, but that seems to be the case with me.

Glenn

[bhn22]

You need to think about another revolver. I carry a 5 shot .44 special 2.5". I keep it stoked with Lyman devastators. They weigh 268 grains lubed and checked. If you're wearing a suit, You're not worried about animals. I do have the Lee c310 bullet for use in my redhawk, it is very accurate but I don't consider it a carry boolit.

It's not necessarily about concealed carry. I believe the OP is wanting to increase the portability of his existing revolver, and was concerned initially that if he shortened his barrel he would lose a lot of muzzle velocity. We did take a little side trip, talking about Alaskans & GP100s, but I believe that the OP is only thinking about going to a 4 or 5 inch barrel.

One interesting factoid: A 7.5 in Super Redhawk actually weighs slightly less than a comparable std Redhawk.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I just got a Ruger BH with the Bisley Grips and such in .44 Special with a 5.5" tube. I am loving this gun. It is reasonable in weight and a tack driver with handloaded ammo.

In a decent hip holster it is not a problem to carry and throwing a 256 gr LSWC boolit at over 1,000 FPS with very good accuracy it is a pleasure to shoot. Now for some real fun I am loading with Swiss 1 1/2 blackpowder over a veggie wad and it is a hoot to shoot.

First you get a very large cloud of white smoke, and a very loud booming report that is much different from a smokeless powder loading. Then the recoil is different than that you get with smokless powder. It is more of a pushing and shoving into your hand rather than a sharp slap.

The accuracy is as good at with smokeless and it is a lot more fun. It really attacts a crowd on the firing line and the cleaning involved is not really a chore compared to the fun you will have.

[Char-Gar]

As your eyes get older, you will want those extra inches back.