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Beekeeper
02-02-2011, 09:58 AM
I recently had a visit from a neighbor who has a friend of a friends brother in law who casts.
He was looking at my semi portable casting set up and the way I water quench boolits.
Mr. know it all had many comments as to what all I am doing wrong.

One comment was I needed a water drop of at least 24 inches and a cooling medium of soluable oil or antifreeze.

Now I use a 2 1/2 gal bucket sitting on top of a upside down 5 gal bucket and always have.
I remember several posts about water dropping but my search skills are not the greatest so I would like to pick everyones brains as to what is the perfect water quinch method as it is one of the thing I have often wondered about and Mr. know it all made me have to stop and think about it (bad ju-ju for me, makes the brain hot and you loose hair)



Jim

docone31
02-02-2011, 10:05 AM
I put a large pot on a chair.

imashooter2
02-02-2011, 10:11 AM
Anti freeze will boil at a higher temperature and therefore *theoretically* give more hardness to your product due to better heat transfer.

The perfect water quench method uses an alloy of precisely known components, soaks the bullets in an oven of precisely known temperature and moves the bullets instantly from that oven into a large vat of agitated quench medium at a temperature just above freezing.

Unless you need more hardness, it is a waste of time and money. Dumping boolits from the mold into water is fast, easy and hardens them up some (depending on alloy).

This hobby can be as simple or as complex as you choose to make it...

chaos
02-02-2011, 10:14 AM
Water dropping is now a science? I have a 5 gal bucket of water next to me at the bench and just dump moulds full of slugs in it. Matter of fact, I like to place blocks about 6 inches above the water before opening it so as to avoid too much splash.

I have yet to meet a wild hog that has complained about my methods after being on the receiving end of the 44.


Chaos

fryboy
02-02-2011, 10:17 AM
colder water is better ( tho it bites in this weather to ummm reach in and empty the castings lolz ) a old t-shirt or something with a slit cut into it bungy corded to the top helps cut down on splashes but i use a 3 1/2 gallon old drywall compound bucket ( had to empty the ice out of it last time lolz and again if i use it this week ) the actual perfect water quench is listed in the lasc pages !!! the three fryer pans are awesum ! i have one saved for this and have been keeping my eye out for more , one could do two stacks at a time in a oven with no problem

DeanWinchester
02-02-2011, 10:19 AM
Yeah, everybody's expert. [except here, where they actually are most of the time] It gets old. I've been quenching in a coffee can 2/3's full of water, not six inches from the mold, for longer than I can remember. When the water gets luke warm, dump it out and start over. I don't know what makes people want to turn it into some alchemy recipe. You harden any heat treatable material by heating it to certain temp. the rapidly cooling it. You do this to because when heated, molecular movement increases. Rapidly cooling locks the structure in position. Some steels are even crystalline like in structure. You temper, draw or anneal [take your pic] it back down by heating and slowly cooling it, relaxing the molecules.

Metallurgy is a very involved subject when it comes to temperatures and composition, but when it comes to brass and lead at home, people will tell you all kinds of blather that's just ridiculous.

You keep doing what you're doing. If it works, it's fine.

woodyubet
02-02-2011, 10:55 AM
This is all I've ever used.......


http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn292/jerrbearr3000/waterdrop003.jpg

xr650
02-02-2011, 11:02 AM
Sounds to me like they are making shot.

old turtle
02-02-2011, 11:05 AM
I use a 2 1/2 gallon bucket set next to me. Works fine. But then I tend not to over think things. That is when I can remember how to think.

Beekeeper
02-02-2011, 11:24 AM
I'm with you old turtle.
I have been using the same 2 1/2 gallon bucket for as long as I have been casting.
And while casting I try not to think too much, makes the time go slower!

This guys info and ideas kinda got to me and I fielded all of the smart astrick answers except the water one.
Have all ways done it this way so didn't know if there was a prescribed way and said so.

Didn't seem to make any diference to Mr. know it all.
Even wanted to know if I had ever dunked my hand in the molten lead like the guys on Mythbusters had.
Claimed his source did it all the time.

Sure was glad when he left even if he called me a woose.
Thanks everyone for the answers as I didn't feel I was too far off.

Jim

old turtle
02-02-2011, 11:41 AM
Beekeeper, how come he didn't stick his fingers in? I saw the Mythbusters show on this. I have also seen some things which they did which I know are not quite correct.

dragonrider
02-02-2011, 11:50 AM
I have, and always will, water quench every boolit I ever cast. If it is right or wrong I don' know, it's convenient that's why I do it. I have two five gallon buckets, one fits inside the other. The former is full of water, the latter's bottom has many small holes drilled in it, lifting it strains the boolits from the water and hence no reaching into cold water with nice warm hands. Of course right now they are froze together. :( I suppose I should fire up the stove in the barn to thaw them out, I need to cast something, anything.

Walter Laich
02-02-2011, 11:59 AM
My goal is to hit the bucket of water with the dropped bullets. Otherwise they end up on my feet :)

walt

canyon-ghost
02-02-2011, 12:22 PM
I really haven't been water quenching long and then, only for the high velocity stuff. I shoot a lot of handgun that doesn't need it. I just pour a 5 gal bucket full from the garden hose, submerge an old tee shirt in it and go. I do set the bucket about 6-8 feet away from the lead pot so, I have to take an extra step. Already met that tinsel fairy. Caution advised.

Ron

Trey45
02-02-2011, 12:28 PM
My lead pot is on an old Black and Decker workmate bench, a 5 gallon water bucket is under it. I sit to cast, due to health issues, and simply fill the mold, knock the sprue off onto a small table to my left, and open the mold over the bucket under the bench. Repeat this about 500 times and I'm done.

67bear
02-02-2011, 12:44 PM
When I quench mine I drop them into a 5 gallon bucket about half full of water. When done, I pour out most of the water and retrieve the boolits. It's simple and works for me.

ReloaderFred
02-02-2011, 12:51 PM
If you cover the water with a layer of foam packaging peanuts about 2" thick, it cuts down on the splash when dropping the bullets into the water.

As for Mr. Know It All, just post a sign near your casting bench that says "NO BLOWHARDS ALLOWED". If he comes back and starts spouting off, just point to your sign.......

Hope this helps.

Fred

cbunt1
02-02-2011, 12:52 PM
When I water quench, I just use a labaratory approved 5-gallon(ish) bucket and drop the boolits straight from the mold.

My favorite labaratory approved buckets come from the lab-testing facility contained in the kitchen of my favorite BBQ joint...$1 each, cleaned out, and they come with lids...often found in the wild as "Pickle Buckets" :)

Of course, the reason I water quench has nothing to do with hardness, and everything to do with expediency...I water quench when I want to lube as soon as they're cast...I've been known to run out of boolits when I needed them for a match the next morning LOL

Bottom line, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If your method works well enough for you, then keep doing it. If it didn't, I'm sure you'd already be looking to make a change!

My $.02 worth...you got it for free, and it's worth everything you paid for it!

Skipper488
02-02-2011, 03:29 PM
5 Gallon bucket 1/2 full of water sitting on floor next to turkey fryer. Somehow I manage to drop about 1 in 20 on the conrete floor. Oh well it'll melt again.

woodyubet
02-02-2011, 04:38 PM
I wonder what quenching in pickel juice would do for hardness ?

6bg6ga
02-02-2011, 05:53 PM
I'm no expert but I use a 1lb coffee can 1/2 full of water. I use leather gloves when I cast and I empty the 4 cavity mold into my hand and from there into the water. Don't think this is rocket science but then again I could be mistaken.

bobthenailer
02-02-2011, 07:10 PM
I personaly use a 6 gallon bucket with a top extension made from a cut off upper part of a 5 gallon bucket that adds about another 10 inches to the height and slips inside of the other bucket . fill the bucket to orgional fill line and the extension almost elimates splashing outside of the bucket. and i use cold water about 40 * and i water drop from the mould to the water.

Bret4207
02-03-2011, 08:04 AM
Tell your Mr. Know it all that if you were quenching for temper in a cutting tool he might have something, but for boolits.... just shut up pal. I've had people that couldn't even grasp the diff between a decapping die and seating die give me loading advice. Ignore them.

CATS
02-03-2011, 10:10 AM
He is speaking from hearsay. If he had no interest he would have said nothing. Find out what/if he shoots and invite him to use your stuff while you are casting to make some for himself. You may convert him or at least turn him into a finder of lead for you. His actions to date may have been a lemon but remember lemonaid comes from lemons. If he gets excited he may turn people he knows into lead finders also. Win-Win.
CATS

10 ga
02-03-2011, 10:52 AM
I don't water quench anything. Lordy, what would Mr. Knowit All say about that? Some boolits will age harden like some peoples brains but I just shootem pretty much as cast. Practice kiss. 10 ga

1Shirt
02-03-2011, 11:45 AM
I water drop almost everything, mostly for convenience. No big deal, if I want softer blts, I air drop, but it is seldom. Not rocket science either!!!!!
1Shirt!:coffee:

timkelley
02-03-2011, 12:12 PM
I'm with 1shirt, convenience.

Mk42gunner
02-03-2011, 01:27 PM
I haven't water-dropped any boolits in ages; but when I did, I used an old six pack size Igloo cooler. The main thing is to be able to hit the water with every boolit, and have enough volume of water to cool them rapidly. The main reason I see for using a five gallon bucket is so you don't have to change the water as often.

Robert

wgr
02-03-2011, 02:04 PM
5 Gallon bucket 1/2 full of water sitting on floor next to turkey fryer. Somehow I manage to drop about 1 in 20 on the conrete floor. Oh well it'll melt again.

pickle them of course:D

wgr
02-03-2011, 02:09 PM
I wonder what quenching in pickel juice would do for hardness ?
pickle them of course[smilie=l:

lyktohunt
02-03-2011, 02:30 PM
I wonder what quenching in pickel juice would do for hardness ?

Not sure about the Boolets but I am sure it will make the pickles taste funny

sh00ter787
02-03-2011, 02:31 PM
ive only just started casting, had 3 good sessions so far - i have a bucket next to my bench (garden table on patio) that I drop my boolits into, i have a cut piece of 2" foam in the bottom of it, a cloth on that and a slit cloth on top of bucket that just breaks the surface of the water.

air dropping for me would be a pain, so easy to just pop them in the bucket - if i had to drop them on the bench i "assume" i would run out of room very quickly.

How do you guys separate boolits on the bench if air dropping?

imashooter2
02-03-2011, 02:37 PM
Take a soda flat or other similar cardboard box. Fold a towel into it. Drop the boolits onto the towel until it fills. Lift the towel rolling the boolits into the box. Place the towel back on top of the boolits. Repeat as necessary.

mold maker
02-03-2011, 03:10 PM
I WC to avoid dents in the fresh soft lead boolits. A 6gal bucket with an old cotton rag, (with a slit) tied over the top breaks the fall of the fresh boolits into about 5 gal of water. I usually cast for several hr sessions, and in the summer the water may have to be changed to keep it cool.
I've been doing it this way for over 45 years and see no reason to change.
Soft lead doesn't harden, when water cooled, and is still soft enough for BP and slow rounds.
When I'm done casting I have to store the equipment and police the area, so having the boolits cool and drying spread on a screen is expedient.

Von Gruff
02-03-2011, 03:45 PM
I dont WD because I dont need to. For those who AD and want a simple solution to bench space and or reducing boolit damage, then this might be a solution. It is for me anyhow. I drop onto the top tray from about 2-3 in high so no damage occurs. Easy to roll them into the holding tray when the top tray is crowded. Can pour the contents of the holding tray into larger container if necessary although the tray can hold LOTS of boolits.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/0032.jpg

Von Gruff.

bowfin
02-03-2011, 03:54 PM
Tell your Mr. Know it all that if you were quenching for temper in a cutting tool he might have something, but for boolits.... just shut up pal.

Having made cutting tools back in the old days, I agree with the above. If you are making bullets out of O-1 tool steel, then definitely use oil to quench them, then draw them back to twice the hardness of your gun barrel for that clean looking smoothbore finish on it:-)

However, since your cast bullets will be dropped from the mold at less than 1500° F, then I don't see the water boiling away from the surface of the hot bullet and giving it an irregular quench.

Heck, there are even some types of steels that get quenched in water.

Ask this "expert" if you might be able to see one of his targets, just so you can see how much accuracy you might gain by adopting his methods...then say, "Yeah, that's what I thought..."

AaronJ
02-03-2011, 04:39 PM
Like most of you I WD into a 5 gal bucket mostly for the convenience and to keep from denting the soft lead.

btroj
02-03-2011, 09:59 PM
I have learned to just ignore idiots. Better for my heart to do so.

Let him blather on then do what you want.

Brad

Catshooter
02-03-2011, 10:07 PM
All good responses.

And actually, technically, Mr Know it All is wrong. The further the boolit falls, the longer it takes to hit the water and start the quenching process. The longer the boolit is out of the mould before quenching, the lower the boolit temp is when it hits the water and that isn't the best quench.

Does it matter, hell no. Keep doing it your way, he's an idiot, they're everywhere.


Cat

Recluse
02-04-2011, 04:42 AM
This guys info and ideas kinda got to me and I fielded all of the smart astrick answers except the water one.
Have all ways done it this way so didn't know if there was a prescribed way and said so.

Didn't seem to make any diference to Mr. know it all.
Even wanted to know if I had ever dunked my hand in the molten lead like the guys on Mythbusters had.
Claimed his source did it all the time.

Jim

Jim,

Here's what you do next time Mr. Know-It-All wanders over:

1. Have six-cavity mold hot and ready, preferably one that casts BIG boolits. Have bucket of cold water nearby, and right next to it, bucket of anti-freeze and next to that, a bucket of oil

2. Fill mold, knock off sprues.

3. Tell Mr. Know-It-All to hold out his hands, then dump hot boolits into his hands.

4. Observe closely to see which bucket of liquid he chooses to dunk his hands in.

5. Ask him why he didn't dunk his hands in the anti-freeze or oil bucket.

Whistle and smile as you finish casting while Mr. Know-It-All runs crying home to put some salve on his hands.

:coffee:

btroj
02-04-2011, 08:51 PM
Recluse, you just made my day.

Thank yu for your insight into the proper method of teaching an idiot.

Brad