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View Full Version : Lube plunger stuck in bottom of Lube-a-matic



eka
02-02-2011, 02:30 AM
OK first let me confess straight up to pulling this bonehead move. :oops:

Now, this is a generation one RCBS Lube-a-matic. Ran her dry of lube and the lube plunger is down on the portion of the rod that does not have any threads and just spins. I have used the search function and tried a few things with no luck. So far this is what I have done.

I removed the lube-a-matic from the bench and attempted to thread the rod out of the bottom of the reservoir. (I'm not even sure this is possible). Anyway, I can't get it to thread out from the bottom. It came out maybe a 1/16 of an inch. I tried keeping the plunger from spinning with a screwdriver. I can't keep it from spinning. I read where someone used a wire to "hook" it and pull up on it. I don't see where the wire is supposed to go. Everything is tight with no room to get around the plunger. I thought before I get out my favorite tool. The big hammer. I would back off and let you guys give me some good ideas. And I had never heard of the small ring of PVC pipe before. When I get this thing out, you bet I'll be doing that too.

Anyway, fire away guys and I won't take offense if you point out that this is a really stupid move. [smilie=l:

Thanks.

stubshaft
02-02-2011, 02:54 AM
Could it be reverse threaded?

45nut
02-02-2011, 03:09 AM
stuff happens,, I sold off my rcbs long ago or I would dissect it to help!

it's happened before though so someone should be along to get you moving.

ronbo
02-02-2011, 08:30 AM
The luber is not mounted on the bench now I take it so put some downward pressure on the threaded rod top at the same time turn the rod and the plunger should grab threads again and work its way up the rod. To get it all the way out the luber would have to be mounted on the bench again if it is made like a Lyman luber or the rod will work it's way out of the bottom of the luber as the rod is turned.

Patrick L
02-02-2011, 12:39 PM
Unless the 1st generation is different, doesn't the threaded rod come out with the cap as a unit when you remove the cap (like when you are putting in a new stick of lube?) If this is the case, that would mean you have the rod out, just the plunger piece that rides down the rod is now stuck in the bottom of the reservoir, probably held there by the lube? Try using a piece of threaded rod from the hardware store that is longer than the RCBS rod. Even if the thread size isn't right you should be able to "grab" the plunger.

If I'm wrong about how the older RCBS units work, forgive me. It also means I don't know what I'm talking about.

cbunt1
02-02-2011, 12:45 PM
I did the same thing with my LAM II once upon a time. I scrounged around the garage and found a bolt that would thread into the lube plunger, got into the threads, and pulled it out that way.

I think it was a 5/8" bolt, but I don't remember for sure. Once I got the threads to bite good, I heated the thing up enough that the lube wasn't holding things in place (a hair dryer works great for this) and slicked it right out.

Don't know if that trick will work for you or not, but it's worth a try...

eka
02-02-2011, 05:30 PM
The rod is still in there as Ronbo talks about. And I have been turning clockwise exerting downward pressure hoping for exactly what you describe, but no luck so far. I probably need to somehow keep the plunger from spinning in order get it to bite back onto the threads on the rod. If that makes any sense.

I was thinking the rod should thread right on out of the bottom once it was removed from the bench. But, it doesn't seem to want to do that. Am I thinking correctly on that? I was just assuming that by looking at the schematic in the manual.

JoeG52
02-02-2011, 05:51 PM
Maybe you can grab the plunger with a magnet to get it started on the threaded rod.

montana_charlie
02-02-2011, 05:52 PM
I am not familiar with the RCBS tool, so I am using Lyman experience to make this suggestion.

The plunger spins, so you can't get the rod threads to catch.
You need a way to prevent the plunger from rotating, and pressing down on it with a screwdriver didn't work.

I assume the plunger has an o-ring (or two) on it to make it a tight fit in the reservoir tube. Is this correct?

Therefore, there should be a very thin gap between the edge of the plunger and the inside wall of the tube.
A long screwdriver with a very thin tip might be wedged into the gap far enough to provide the friction necessary to anchor the plunger.
In the absence of a screwdriver, a piece of (coat hanger) wire can be shaped to resemble a screwdriver. Just pushing it down into the gap should wedge the plunger (fairly) solid, but if you can also turn it a little, that should improve the 'grip'.

Don't turn it far enough to break the tip off!

CM

6bg6ga
02-02-2011, 05:55 PM
Should be fairly simple to remove it. Heat it up good so that the lube is good and runny. Thread a bolt into it and pull it out.

69daytona
02-02-2011, 06:08 PM
I have a piece of all thread the same size as the rod and used it to screw into the plunger then just pull. I modified mine with a cup from a 1" wheel cylinder with a small flat washer on the bottom and drilled the bottom of the threaded rod for a small cotter pin to keep it from ever coming off again, Havent had any problem with it since and no more lube getting past the O ring.

DAFzipper
02-02-2011, 06:34 PM
I also use a piece or threaded rod to get mine out of my LAM II.

rodsvet
02-02-2011, 08:22 PM
I know this may sound stupid, but try turning it the other direction. If you heat it up and push down from the top it should catch. Good Luck!! You can always send it to RCBS or maybe even just call them. You're not the first guy to have this happen. Rod

eka
02-03-2011, 07:26 AM
My unit is pre-LAMII. So, the rod is still sticking up out of the reservoir and the plunger is all the way to the bottom of the rod where the threads have ended.

Charlie, I think you are absolutely right, the key is to find the right tool to keep this plunger from spinning in order to get it threaded back on. All the while putting downward pressure on the rod, while turning clockwise. It seems like that should work. I've got one more twelve hour shift tomorrow and then I will have the time to get back after it.

In the mean time, feel free to brainstorm more. I really appreciate it.

Bret4207
02-03-2011, 07:57 AM
Try sticking it in the freezer for a couple hours. That should stiffen the lube up and allow th edisc to remain stationary.

Hey, it's worth a try.

rodsvet
02-03-2011, 10:22 PM
Good idea!! Cold lube may be just the ticket. You might also try a piece of 3/4 schedule 40 pvc pipe. It will slide into the lube tube and you can press down on it as you use a deep socket to turn the threaded rod. Good Luck!! Rod

Patrick L
02-03-2011, 11:02 PM
Humor me here, I'm just a bit slow.

So on the old style RCBS sizers, when you take the cap off the reservoir the threaded rod is fixed permanently in the machine? That would mean you need to turn the handle CW many, many times to raise the plunger piece all the way up and out, then you slip a hollow stick of lube OVER the threaded rod, thread the plunger piece back on and then start turning the handle CCW to start forcing the lube thru the machine. Is that right?

Just like the old Lyman/Ideal 45?

Alchemist
02-03-2011, 11:11 PM
Good idea!! Cold lube may be just the ticket. You might also try a piece of 3/4 schedule 40 pvc pipe. It will slide into the lube tube and you can press down on it as you use a deep socket to turn the threaded rod. Good Luck!! Rod

This plan sounds good to me too. Maybe drop several small rubber bands on top of the plunger disc for added grip, down pressure with the pipe section as suggested by rods vet, and the cold lube as recommended by bret4207. You just may get it out yet!

ETA...If you're pushing down on the plunger and the threaded post, you'll need to rest the sizer on a wood block with a relief hole for the rod to go down into. The rod is friction fit up through the bottom with a fiber washer. If you push down on both pieces at the same time against a flat surface, you'll just be spinnin' yer wheels.

Good luck and report back!

rodsvet
02-04-2011, 01:01 AM
Patrick, I have a Lachmiller which is what RCBS patterned the LAM1 after. Yes the lube is pushed over the threaded rod and then the plunger/piston is threaded on top. Mine works great after 40 years and hundreds of thousands of boolits. I hope eka can get this sorted out. Rod

eka
02-04-2011, 07:40 AM
The freezer, the pvc, the rubber bands. Man you guys can really brainstorm. I really appreciate all these ideas. I'm off Fri., Sat., and Sun. so I'll get these in motion and see what I can do with them. I'll report back. In the mean time, I'm still all ears for anything else.

Oh, and Patrick, you pretty much nailed it. That's how this one works.

Alchemist, what keeps that rod from coming out of the bottom of the reservoir when its not supported by the bench like you were talking about?

Thanks again guys.

GabbyM
02-04-2011, 11:16 AM
The freezer, the pvc, the rubber bands. Man you guys can really brainstorm. I really appreciate all these ideas. I'm off Fri., Sat., and Sun. so I'll get these in motion and see what I can do with them. I'll report back. In the mean time, I'm still all ears for anything else.

Oh, and Patrick, you pretty much nailed it. That's how this one works.

Alchemist, what keeps that rod from coming out of the bottom of the reservoir when its not supported by the bench like you were talking about?
Thanks again guys.

Nothing but the bench keeps the rod in. At least on my old RCBS and Lyman’s. before I got a heater base I used a piece of roof flashing under the press to prevent the rod from drilling a hole in my bench.

On my old RCBS there is a fiber spacer in the bottom of the lube reservoir to prevent the piston from bottoming out. Your’s must be missing. See this RCBS page. Spacer is item 28 on the full view schematic. Page 7. If that is the press you have?

http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/Lube-A-Matic_Bullet_Sizer_Lubricator_Instructions.pdf

Are you sure the piston is off the threads? May be just spinning.
I run mine up with a variable speed electric drill.

Walter Laich
02-04-2011, 12:22 PM
just my 2₵:
I'm guessing there is no bottom plug that can be knocked out from the top?

41magfan
02-04-2011, 12:40 PM
Can you use air presure to push the lube in the body back out under the plunger so the threads can grab?

Alchemist
02-04-2011, 09:25 PM
Alchemist, what keeps that rod from coming out of the bottom of the reservoir when its not supported by the bench like you were talking about?



It's just a tight fit, and the fiber washer kinda helps hold it in. I just got done tearing a LAM apart for cleaning and re-assembly, so it's fresh in my mind. There must be a few differences over the years...the one I'm refering to was made in 1979 (manufacture date is stamped on bottom of casting) and the threads go so close to the bottom of the lube reservoir that it would be nearly impossible for the plunger to come off.

Any new developments?

eka
02-04-2011, 10:50 PM
Well, I was thinking that the rod should just thread on out of the bottom if it wasn't on the bench. And I further surmised that as the rod came out of the bottom, it would get the plunger started back up the rod. But, I'm using all the force I can muster and the rod doesn't come out the bottom.

You know I was just assuming the plunger is down on the rod below the threads because I was reading about others describing that problem. But for sure my plunger is on the bottom of the reservoir and just spinning without coming back up.

I bought this unit used and have used it about five years now. I don't have any idea about the fiber washer. I would guess that it is probably gone. I looked on the bottom of the casting for a year of mfg. but I can't see one. It is marked 1A though.

What do you think is holding my rod up in the reservoir even with great downward force?

454PB
02-04-2011, 11:00 PM
I don't own a LAM, but have had a similar problem with my two Lyman 450's. I used an ice pick to hold the plunger steady while I turned the operating rod and got the threads re-engaged.

JonB_in_Glencoe
02-04-2011, 11:25 PM
I was messing around with a recently acquired Ideal/Lyman #1 with the brass style plunger.
when the plunger "bottomed out" it would LOCK against the end of the threads.
then I had the same situation you mention.

putting the thing in the freezer may help.
I didn't think of that, or I surely would have tried it.

But, What I did was similar to what you tried.
Unmount the sizer from the Bench,
Turn the Rod in the direction to lift the plunger
while putting and extreme amount of downward force
on the ratchet wrench so the Rod would screw out the bottom.

This took alot of force, So much so, that I expected to break something.
Luckily I didn't. Once I loosened the "Locking" action of the plunger being
bottomed out, The problem was over, easy to unscrew and remove the plunger.
Jon

eka
02-04-2011, 11:36 PM
Well, I have tried the freezer and the PVC with no success. I sincerely appreciate the ideas though.

JonB, that was my first thought and course of action, but I just can't seem to get the rod to thread on out of the bottom. I guess my featherweight rear end just can't man up and get it done LOL. Meanwhile, as Charlie and 454PB suggested I will be on the hunt for a tool of sorts to jam in there and stop the plunger from spinning. I'll keep ya posted.

Mk42gunner
02-04-2011, 11:36 PM
That happened to me one time with my Lubamatic; unfortunately, I cannot recall just what I did to get the threads to catch. I think I used a long thin screwdriver wedged between the plunger and cylinder wall to keep the plunger from turning.

One thing is sure- after doing this once, you will refill the lube reservior early from now on.

Robert

rodsvet
02-05-2011, 01:56 AM
eka, if you aren't needing to size boolits for a week or so, call RCBS on Monday and see what they say. This has happened to other guys and I know there is a simple fix. It's probably staring us in the face but we are thinking too hard. Good luck ! Rod

eka
02-05-2011, 02:06 AM
SUCCESS!!!!! Man was that thing a booger. I found an old long screwdriver, thinned the tip with a file, and then had to drive the screwdriver in beside the plunger with a hammer to get enough bite to keep the plunger from spinning. Finally, she started coming up. I think that was about the time I whispered to her that I was going to get a Star. LOL. Anyway, I roughed the top edge of the plunger up a little and destroyed the O-rings in the process, but at least she's out. Bye the way, there was no fiber spacer in there. So, I will cut a piece of PVC and drop it in to keep the plunger off the bottom from now on.

Now, about those O-rings. Can anyone tell me if those can be had at Lowes or Home Depot and if so, what number they may be?

And a thanks to all that took the time and patience to offer advice and put their brain to work to help me out. I really appreciate it.

Maven
02-05-2011, 10:34 AM
eka, While Home Depot, Lowes, and NAPA (auto supplies) carry O-rings, your chances of finding one that fits improve greatly if you bring the old plunger and O-rings with you.

eka
02-05-2011, 11:33 AM
Roger that, Maven.

eka
02-05-2011, 04:58 PM
The O-Rings are Size 211 or #16 sized: 1 1/16 outside diameter X 13/16 inside diameter X 1/8 cross section (thickness).

Didn't have a bit of luck at Lowe's, Home Depot, Tractor Supply, Advance Auto, Auto Zone, or a local plumbing supply. So, I was going to just call RCBS and be done with it. But, I was searching online about different O-Ring types and compositions. It would seem that Nitril, also called Buna-N, is an awesome type O-Ring for this application. Much stronger than standard rubber in tearing, abrasion resistance, and compression set. It is resistant to petroleum, oils and the things we tend to have in our lubes. It's weaknesses is in high temp., sunlight, and ozone. None of which apply to this application. I got a 25 pack on Amazon for $1.25 and I'm an Amazon Prime member so I got free two day shipping.

Anyway, I thought I would post that info. about the O-Rings in case it would help anyone now or maybe later when using the search function in trying to get info. on O-Rings for their Lube-A-Matic.

Thanks again for all the help guys.

Walter Laich
02-05-2011, 08:43 PM
Glad you got it worked out. Know what it's like when nothing seems to work.