Cast bullet varmint hunting?

[Tatume]

Hello Folks,

I'm thinking of getting a new single-shot rifle for hunting ground hogs. My shots run from 50 to 200 yards. What would be your recommendation for a cartridge to shoot cast bullets exclusively in this application?

In the same vein, I'd like to hear suggestions on the rifle too. There are lots of single shot rifles with which I am not familiar. Tell me about yours.

Thanks, Tom

[HollowPoint]

Hi Tom:

I've been looking for the same type of setup myself. Although I have opted for a bolt-action rather than a single shot.

I recently sold off the last of my T/C's but if I were going to buy a single shot, I think that would be the way I'd go. Back in the day I also owned an NEF single shot in 223 caliber that was super accurate.

Given your criteria my personal preference would be either an Encore or one of the NEF's; the NEF being less expensive. (I think)

The caliber I'd choose would be 22-250. Why? I believe the common barrel twist in a 22-250 is 1 in 14. With this twist rate and the correct casting alloy you would be able to drive your cast bullets at about 2700-2800 fps.

With some diligent load work-up you should be able to find an accuracy sweet-spot to easily make lethal varmint shots out to 200 yards.

I use a 30 caliber K31 as my varmint rifle. I can't drive my bullets that fast without compromising my bullet's integrity or loosing accuracy. The fastest I can go is about 2000-2200 fps. I'm still working on a load that will give me the flattest trajectory and best accuracy.

I just recently acquired a new Lyman 311359 two cavity mold that I had hollow pointed. I've yet to cast with it or shoot it. It looks like it may be just right varmint bullet mold for my needs though.

HollowPoint

[HARRYMPOPE]

I have shot many varmints with a hollowpoint 225415.i use the 22 varminter (AKA 22-250) at velocity of 2000 fps cast of linotype. At 50 to 150 they explode the smaller ones.When i used a solid 225415 i got a lot of them getting back to their holes.

HMP

[Bullshop]

We have just what you are looking for.
A Winchester mod. 1885 thin side chambered for the very popular (1930) and eminently accurate 22 2R Lovell.
If interested we can get some pics.

[stubshaft]

22 Hornet or K hornet. While I have shot cast in rifles from 223 to 220 Swift Improved, I think that at the velocity I was shooting there was little to be gained from a larger case. Even the Bee would be a great case.

[leadman]

The cast in a 22 cal. rifle like the K Hornet or 223 can be driven 2,500 fps pretty easily. With the K-hornet past 150 yards the boolit drop is pretty severe, and would expect the same out of the 223.

I do shoot a RCBS 30-150-SP boolit out of my Contender 30-30AI that I would have confidence in at 200 yards to do the job.

[Kraschenbirn]

How 'bout a modern falling block (Browning Highwall or, maybe, a Ruger) in 7mm BR? I shot a Rem. XP-100 for silhouettes and long-range steel for a lot of years and, from time to time, popped a few 'chucks with it, too. Shouldn't be any problem at to push something like the RCBS 7mm-145-SIL out of a rifle-length barrel at 2200-2400 fps (I ran 139 JBs at 2000 out of my 14" XP) and the combination would shoot relatively flat out to around 225 yds or so.

Just a thought...

Bill

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I personally had very poor luck loading cast in my 22-250. I drove the boolits from about a 1000fps to over 2200fps, never had any leading, but never had any accuracy either. 22 cal boolits I also found to be a major PITA to cast, size, check and lube. In the end I gave up on cast in my 22-250, however it is an awesome j-word shooter and would recommend the caliber for any varmint hunting or medium sized game provided you don’t intend to load cast. Simply do to casting convenience I would go for at least a 25cal or larger, and I personally would look into a 30cal like the 300whisperer.

[quilbilly]

Cast boolits are great for varmint hunting out to 200 yards and beyond with the right boolits in the right rifle. I have the single-shot Thompson/Center carbine with an 18" barrel in the 7mm TCU caliber and shoot the 130 gr Lee boolit that is gas checked. This T/C barrel doesn't like a particularly hot load but easily shoots sub minute of angle groups at 100 yds with this boolit at the muzzle velocity of 1950 fps.
At 50 yards, I did a "wet phonebook" test to discover terminal ballistics and found this load achieves 13-14" of penetration with a textbook expansion so believe it is certainly good for smaller deer and mountain lion out to 100-150 yards (I will probably never use it on deer since I hunt them with a muzzleloader exclusively). Any coyote I can get my sight picture on out to 300+ yards is in serious jeopardy.

[Bullshop]

22 cal boolits = gooooood!
You guys need to check out the 22 postal match thread at the competition forum.

[Gelandangan]

45/70 !!
Most versatile cartridge for everything from rabbits to elephant (or T-Rex)
IME larger calibers are much easier to cast than smaller ones.

Can be used from expensive single shots like Sharps to cheap ones like H&R.
Some of these rifles can shoot real accurate 1000 yards with enough energy to kill a buffalo if such is required.

Personally I use the H&R Buffalo classic for most of my meat gathering and varminting.
Accurate enough for head shots on all your hunting distances (50-200 meters)

[onondaga]

I use an NEF Ultra Varmint in .223 Rem. with cast bullets and like it. It has the slower 1:12 twist so it actually likes light bullets very well.

One thing to consider for a varmint cartridge with cast bullets is case capacity. There is a lot of 22 center fire cartridges and many of them simply have too much case capacity for the caliber with cast bullets and air space leads to poor ignition and wide variety of velocity change.

With the hard alloys and good lube you can get about 2600 fps before real problems if you have a beautifully polished bore and perfect +.002 bullet fit with gas checked bullets. I polished the bore on my NEF and get sub MOA.

Try cross matching the velocity/bullet you desire with 100% density loads and see what cartridge stands out. I use H380 in my .223 with a 50 gr gas checked bullet and worked it up. This was successful for my rifle. I have enough volume to get reliable ignition and good velocity with low variation.

Another honestly good answer is to use a rifle you already have that shoots excellently and just ignore whatever caliber and bullet weight it is and use it anyway for varmint hunting. Chart it with a ballistic program and get a rangefinder, then adjust your scope for each shot.

A lot of years shooting cast bullets has lead me to the conclusion that the most important things needed to get excellent accuracy with cast bullets in any size isn't a big list:

1. Twist rate to match bullet and a highly polished bore
2. bullet sized diameter match .001 to .002 over bore and consistent bullet weight
3. alloy to meet load pressure needs
4. 90% + case capacity load for good ignition and low velocity spread
5. gas checks for high pressure/velocity
6. adequate lube that leaves a star on the muzzle

My lifetime best is 6.82 inches at 1,000 meters with cast bullets out of a custom Highwall single shot with a full length/full diameter Douglas barrel in 25-06, rifle weighed 28 lbs. with a 20X Unertl scope and I had a friend who could shoot that rifle better than I could. Yes, I used that rifle for woodchucks too and it was sold years ago.

Gary

[Bret4207]

I would be inclined to look at something like the 7.62x39/30-30/30-40/308 or maybe even a 25/35 if you could find one. That's as much for ease of inspection and mould selection as anything else. I've killed coyotes with everything from 380 and 357 pistols to 22lr-35 Whelen rifles. My last woodchuck I took with a 250ish fr 35 cal FN at about 1700 fps. He didn't even twitch.

In the end, get what appeals to you. For period pieces in a SS the 32-40 or 28-30 Stevens might be the ticket.

[Tatume]

You guys have been a big help. I'm going to continue researching this project, to include field trials. Thnk you, all.

[Sheriff]

I use the 224415 in a .218 Bee and the 311008 in a .32-20 for coyotes. The Bee is shot in a T/C and the .32-20 in a Ruger Buckeye and a Marlin 1896CL.

[quack1]

I shoot the 225462 in a 22-250 and the 225438 in a 218 Bee. Both hollow pointed, ACWW plus a little tin for better fillout, going between 2000 and 2200fps. I use 3031 in the 22-250 and 2400 in the bee. Have killed a bunch of ground hogs up to 125-150 yards (about as far as I can shoot on the small farms I hunt) with those bullets. They will expand at those ranges. The hits aren't as spectacular as jacketed, but the hogs just fall over, kick a few times and die. Last summer I worked on getting an accurate load with the 257464 in my 25-06 and plan on trying it on hogs this summer.

[Doby45]

Rossi single shot 308. Tons of boolit options and easy to work with. Can be used from squirrels to whatever else you might wanna shoot.

[NVScouter]

Yes check out the postal match. I have a target in there at 100 yards that makes varminting at 200 no problem. I will say that if you want to go this way you need to choose:

1) if you have lots of lead go .308+ for easier loading. 22 gas checks are a pain while 30s are easy.

OR)

2) If you want to maximize the stretch of powder and lead get a 22Hornet! Hands down my favorite rifle is my CZ527 American.

That being said I do what you do out to 1,000yards with these (No not all go to 1K :Fire:)

Henry H22 22 S/L/RL
CZ527 American 22Hornet
T/C Contender 223Remmington 16" Pistol
Ruger M77 22-250
Tikka Ultralight 243 Win
Savage Custom 243 (1K rifle)
Savage 250-3000
T/C Contender 7-30 Waters pistol
Winchester 1894 30WCF
Winchester 94 32WCF
Savage 10FP 308 Win
Weatherby 300WBY
Taurus 38spl Ultralight
T/C Contender 357 Herrett
Ruger Blackhawk 45LC
Ruger Redhawk 45LC

I also have been known to practice using my 20, 16, and 12GA shotguns with buckshot and slugs.

I'm sure I missed a couple you get my point. If all you want to do is make a varmint go "POOF" anything that meets your budget and accuracy needs fits the bill.

[Freischütz]

How about the 25/20 WCF or Single Shot?

[Skipper488]

Rossi single shot 308. Tons of boolit options and easy to work with. Can be used from squirrels to whatever else you might wanna shoot.

My son just bought the new Rossi "Wizard" in .308 $315 out the door and barrels can be changed easily for about $150. I took him to the range Saturday and let him play with it some with j-word bullets but I had to go to the pistol range to test some loads I made so I'm not sure on the performance or his technique yet.

I plan on buying one in 45-70 then getting 30-06 and .308 barrels for it later. It looks and feels like a solid firearm and for the price you can't hardly go wrong.

[Skipper488]

I haven't seen all of these for sale yet but Rossi lists the following barrels for the Wizard;

.17 HMR
.22 LR
.22 MAG
.22-250 REM
.223 REM
.243 WIN
.270 WIN
.30-06 SPRG
.308 WIN
.38/.357
.44 MAG
.45-70
7.69x39mm
.45 Muzzle Loader
.50 Muzzle Loader
.410 Shotgun
20 Gauge
12 Gauge

[HARRYMPOPE]

[QUOTE
1. Twist rate to match bullet and a highly polished bore
2. bullet sized diameter match .001 to .002 over bore and consistent bullet weight
3. alloy to meet load pressure needs
4. 90% + case capacity load for good ignition and low velocity spread
5. gas checks for high pressure/velocity
6. adequate lube that leaves a star on the muzzle

[/QUOTE]

I believe you to need to ad "fit the throat to the list",It trumps most others on the list.i can take a so-so shooting bullet run it one of my taper bump dies made to match the rifles throat and double accuracy by changing nothing else.Case capacity isn't as important in lower accuracy "just MOA" sporter rifles,but in sub 1/2 MOA rifles like my 30-BR and 32 Miller short it seems to help.Breach seated 32 Bullets plain base bullets in the 32-40 with 50% capacity loads are amazingly accurate and uniform,and it defies reason sometimes.Not disagreeing really,just adding my experience.You gave some good points in your post about 22 shooting.

HMP

[Good Cheer]

The H&R single shot in .280 Remington looks about right.

[peerlesscowboy]

I've often thought the .22 Hornet should make a dandy little cast bullet launcher?

John C. Saubak

[JIMinPHX]

I'm cheap. I stick with $200ish a Handi-Rifle. I've been having pretty good luck with the .223 cal boolits shown in post #10 on this thread - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=68853

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17541&d=1259642425

[Dutchman]

Nigh onto 35 saber tooth woodchucks fell to the magic of my Swedish Mauser m/96, the Oberndorf FrankenSwede using 266469 and 10.5 grs Unique for 1,500 fps. Some of them tried charging me in a futile attempt to defy fate but none succeeded. That wooden cable spool was the alter for the vultures out behind the house and below the mulberry tree. Woodchucks love mulberries. Ripe juicy mulberries scattered through the grass provoke wanton disregard for danger while they gorge themselves, occasionally standing upright munching and communing with their furry critter gods then POW! dead meat.

The only good woodchuck is a dead woodchuck.

http://images12.fotki.com/v200/photos/2/28344/1676633/scan0025x-vi.jpg