Rem vs Win brass

[peerlesscowboy]

.357 Magnum cases,
Is Remington brass thinner toward the neck than Winchester? I've got a bunch of mixed lot old Winchester .357 nickel plated brass, when I load .358" bullets quite a few of them are hard to chamber. Hoping a change to Remington might cure the problem?

John C. Saubak

[geargnasher]

I am failing to understand how any of us, without your gun, brass, or boolits, are in a better position to answer that than you are.

Gear

[peerlesscowboy]

I am failing to understand how any of us, without your gun, brass, or boolits, are in a better position to answer that than you are.

Gear
Maybe I've worded the question badly? I'm wondering if in others experience, that perhaps Winchester .357 brass is thicker than Remington .357 brass?

[Randall]

.45 auto remington brass is thinner,I use it in a match chamber 1911 with cast boolits for better accuracy and reliability. Standard chambers use range brass. I do not know about .357 brass

[stubshaft]

Back in the day whe I was shooting PPC all I used was nickle plated Winchester brass. That does not mean that over the years they have not changed their method of manufacturing. But is is hard to help you with your problem if you don't give more information. Like what diameter you size your boolits too? your load? bullet? type/model of gun?

I personally find very little if any difference in the 357 brass that I shoot nowdays, and I shoot a mix of everything from PMC to Starline.

[geargnasher]

I just checked, Winchester nickel .357 that I have from a couple of different lots checks at .0110"-.0125", two lots of BRASS Remington checked in at .0130"-.0135". Didn't have any Remington nickel in .357. The nickel might be the difference, I know the nickel-plated stuff is supposed to be made on brass that's thinner than normal, then plated up to the same thickness as brass brass. Maybe the plating isn't right.

This surprised me because Remington .30-30 and .30-'06 are consistenly thinner than Winchester by one or two thousandths.

Gear

[Bad Water Bill]

Just a thought. If you expanded the top of the shell to insert the boolit and did not get the crimp correct you just might have a problem. Even old folks sometimes dis remember some things in a confusiated moment

[PacMan]

Not sure about the thickness of the nickle brass but the standard winchester that i have is a little thicker walled than the Rem.
Bad Water Bill mentioned the crimp which could be the problem. I find that the winchester brass that i have is a little longer than the Rem. If yours are the same and you do not change the crimp to match the longer brass it will give problems by bulging the case slightly.

Dwight

[adrians]

all i know is r/p brass cycles in my 7400 rifle but win has trouble ( but it is a rem rifle ,so go figure)

[peerlesscowboy]

The brass I'm using is 20 year old Winchester nickel plated .357 magnum, 6gr Unique behind a Ly358477 sized to .358". I see this hard to impossible chambering problem to a greater or lesser degree with perhaps 25% of the loaded rounds in 2 old model Ruger Blackhawks, 1 S&W model 19 and 2 S&W model 66's. Doesn't seem to be a problem in one other old model Ruger Blackhawk, a S&W model 686 nor my old 5" S&W model 27.
After reading you'r replies I'm thinking the crimp might be the problem? that's where they seem to be restricted, on the brass right behind the crimp. The bullet is the Ly358477 I described in another thread I started yesterday, my mould drops 'em from #2 alloy at .363" and I'm sizing 'em way down to a measured .358" (requires a nominal [357] die to get 'em there. After that much sizing there isn't much depth left to the crimp groove that wasn't all that deep to begin with. Planning to order an RCBS 38-150-SWC mould tomorrow so maybe that'll fix my problem?

John C. Saubak

[timkelley]

Lighten that crimp just a tad (scientific measurement). When I got my Lee Turret last year I had to readjust my crimp die for about the first time in 30 years. All of a sudden my loads wouldn't chamber. Turned out I was bulging the brass with an over crimp.

[geargnasher]

Interesting. This brings to my mind some very good points that TommygirlMT brought up in this thread http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=104514. If the crimp groove on the boolit is too deep and you're really needing to crimp heavy for recoil reasons, you have to roll the mouth until the case bulges to get it to reach the bottom.

If you're only shooting these in revolvers and not tube-mag carbines, try seating the boolits out a bit more and crimping further toward the base of the boolit, leaving a slight gap between the case mouth and the band at the deep end of the crimp groove.

Gear

[mpmarty]

As you seem to have a means to measure your boolits, why not measure the finished cartridges to find out the problem?

[peerlesscowboy]

As you seem to have a means to measure your boolits, why not measure the finished cartridges to find out the problem?
I took your advice today and learned a few things in the process. First-off, even the largest of the loaded cartridges miked right on .379" OD at the mouth-right on spec', with others miking .378". The S&W models 66 and 19 proved to have dirty chambers from shooting .38 wadcutters, a good cleaning and the problem went away with those :oops: Which left me with two Old model Ruger Blackhawks that seem to have tight chambers. I also noticed the S&W revolvers had really smooth looking chamber walls like they were well polished where-as the chamber walls on the Rugers looked rougher, like the toolmarks hadn't been polished out? I'm thinking that if I just polished the chambers. Anybody have ideas on how to do that short of taking 'em to a qualified gunsmith? I'm thinking maybe strip of fine grit emery cloth wrapped around a woolmop on a section of cleaning rod and a drill.........?

John C. Saubak

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
You might solve the problem by just trimming all your cases to the same length.
If you just have to mess with the chambers, try 0000 steel wool around a bore brush, removing all lead/fouling 1st. & see if problem is solved.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've noticed that Winchestor brass cases walls on 44 mag brass seems thicker that other brads. When I load hand swaged brass jacketed bullets...the last step pushing them through a Lee FCD is a tough chore, while other brands sneak right through without much tension.
Jon

[bhn22]

I have plenty of older Remington & WW brass. I've noticed the situation you're describing, and I have to segregate Remington & Winchester brass during loading because they require a slightly different crimp. However, this situation is only apparent when loading jacketed bullets, and 45 ACP is by far the worst offender. I can "mike" some brass later for the numbers. I usually keep Remington segregated for use only with cast. I do sort all brass by headstamp because of this, and have taken to reloading only unplated cases for various reasons related to consistency. Plated brass goes on the table at gun shows, along with oddball & mixed headstamps.

[fecmech]

Winchester nickel brass is thicker than RP nickel brass, that's been my experience. I don't have either in straight brass so I can't comment on that.

[Recluse]

I took your advice today and learned a few things in the process. First-off, even the largest of the loaded cartridges miked right on .379" OD at the mouth-right on spec', with others miking .378". The S&W models 66 and 19 proved to have dirty chambers from shooting .38 wadcutters, a good cleaning and the problem went away with those :oops: Which left me with two Old model Ruger Blackhawks that seem to have tight chambers. I also noticed the S&W revolvers had really smooth looking chamber walls like they were well polished where-as the chamber walls on the Rugers looked rougher, like the toolmarks hadn't been polished out? I'm thinking that if I just polished the chambers. Anybody have ideas on how to do that short of taking 'em to a qualified gunsmith? I'm thinking maybe strip of fine grit emery cloth wrapped around a woolmop on a section of cleaning rod and a drill.........?

John C. Saubak

For what it's worth, I've had this issue with both lead boolits and jacketed bullets. I normally use brass for my lead loads and nickel for the jacketed--with the reasoning being that I don't have to flare the necks as much with nickel (for smaller jacketed bullets) as I do the brass for larger lead boolits.

Only .357's I have are S&W in K and L frames, but with all of them, I occasionally have the same issues you speak of.

One solution is to clean and then smooth the chambers. I do this with emory cloth and a dowel chucked in a cordless drill, some rem oil and a lot of patience. I then polish it with increasing grades of steel wool finishing with 0000.

For the loaded rounds themselves, I use a separate set of dies for lead boolits and jacketed bullets because once I get the crimp set to where I like it and it works for me, I hate changing it just to change projectiles.

I bought a set of Lee .38 Special dies and took the decapping pin out of the full-length resizing die. When I finish loading up my .357 Magnum rounds, be they lead or jacketed, I run them through the full-length resizing die.

Since doing this (couple of years ago), I've never had a feeding problem.

:coffee: