Loose Wedge Pin-Lyman Great Plains

[alamogunr]

This is the only muzzleloading rifle I have. I haven't shot it in quite some time but got it out today to wipe it down since it has been in a case for over a year. I know! I shouldn't do that. There wasn't room in the safe and I haven't wanted to hang it on the wall.

Now for my question. I removed the barrel from the stock. Both wedges were tight so I thought everything was OK. When I reassembled it, the back wedge was loose. Just fell out. I took the barrel out of the stock again and could see that one end of the barrel lug had detached from the rib. I assume that the lug is soldered or brazed to the rib but I don't trust myself to do it. Is this something that just about any gunsmith can do? Are there any appreciable risks to this? I would prefer not to have to send it off so I may have to trust a gunsmith within driving distance. Anybody in West Tennessee that can recommend one?

John
W.TN

[garbear]

Any competent smith should be able to fix the rifle.

[alamogunr]

That answers one question. Now I have to find a gunsmith that is competent.

John
W.TN

[Jim]

That answers one question. Now I have to find a gunsmith that is competent.

John
W.TN

That might be an issue.

[onondaga]

A simple solution I use, cut a strip of business card paper or two and place it in the barrel channel of the stock when it is loose. Stocks change with temp and humidity. The gunsmith fix for the wedge pin fit will only be temporary anyway. I have the same rifle and this works for me. When you put the rifle away take the paper out. It may not need it next time. I place the paper in the channel in the area midway between the two wedges.

I believe the wedge lugs are a press fit, tap it down. A hard drop will loosen them. An Email to Lyman would likely get the best answer.

You don't need a gunsmith, cut some paper if you still need to after tapping in the wedge lug and go shoot. I don't believe there is a weld,braze,pin or solder there.

That Lyman is a nice rifle with a wonderful quality bore finish. I bought mine originally as the Great Plains model with the 1:60 twist and later purchased a Lyman fast twist barrel from MidwayUSA, what a great combination to have both barrels. With the faster twist barrel I use the Lee REAL 250 and it really likes them over 70 grains 3F Pyrodex, groups just less than 1 inch at 50 yd.--as good as round balls for me. I also tried the heavier REAL but the 250 grain REAL is much more accurate for my Great Plains rifle..

Gary

[northmn]

While I would recommend getting it repaired, two wedges are really not needed to hole in a barrel. Generally only one holds it in anyway as one will be tighter than another. I would have to see a picture of the problem as I do not have a GP rifle but in worse case, clean the thing off with some alcohol or other good degreaser and JB Weld it in place. Ideally wedges should be of the capture type variety where they are slotted and a pin holds them in place from coming out.

DP

[waksupi]

To tighten a wedge, put a slight bend in them.

[alamogunr]

To tighten a wedge, put a slight bend in them.

That remedy is in the Lyman instructions that come with the rifle. My problem is that the lug, which seems to be soldered (or brazed) to the rib that contains the ram rod, has come loose. One end is now separated from the rib about .010". It would seem that using a clamp to put it back in contact with the rib and soldering it would work. I just don't trust myself to do it. I would probably end up un-soldering the other end.

There is a gunsmith in the county that only works part time now that can probably do it or recommend another fix.

John
W.TN

[onondaga]

You must have a different model then my Great Plains. My both barrels for the Great Plains Lyman Rifle only have half barrel length under ribs and the ribs on mine are screwed down to the barrel. My wedge slot parts are located where there is no under rib on the barrel from the rod thimble back to the breech end.

I agree that a good degreasing and, a little part bending and some JB Weld clamped during set of the JB would hold fine from the description you have given.. You can mask off with tape where you definitely don't want the JB to flow and it also cleans off well with an alcohol whetted paper towel if you get it fast before it sets at all.

Gary

[alamogunr]

Sounds like the JB Weld might work. I may get some tomorrow and play around with it before trying it on the lug. I've never used it before.

Is it thin enough to flow under the lug leg before clamping? I don't want to try increasing the gap for fear of snapping off the other end.

John

[alamogunr]

OK, I've got to back up and admit that I've been describing the lugs from the illustration in the online manual for the GP Rifle. I just went to the shop and got the barrel. The lugs are as described by Onondaga.

This should make it even easier to JB Weld it back in place since there are good flats to put a clamp on. I can almost push the lug back into place with finger pressure so a small C clamp should work fine.

John

[onondaga]

JB Weld is a 2 component epoxy used in a 1:1 mix and has a viscosity similar to toothpaste. It is designed for the best bonding to metal. I use a small dental cement mixing spatula for mixing but a popsicle stick with a squared end would be fine. A screwdriver would work too for mixing and applying.. Have some alcohol and paper towel handy for wipe up. The flattened end of the stick will be helpful in pushing the JB into the opening where you want it. Clamp and wipe excess away.

Actually, de-greasing is the most important preparation before using JB.

Gary

[alamogunr]

Thanks!

John
W.TN

[Maven]

alamogunner, I had the same problem with a loose wedge pin as you and, like you, bent the tenon to better retain it. In so doing, I also manage to separate it from the bbl. Epoxy seemed to fix it...until I drove the wedge back in place, which again separated it from the bbl. My solution was to solder a small ring of ~.008" shim brass around the still separated tenon, remount the bbl., and push the wedge home. It's now tight and, better yet, point of impact and accuracy were not affected in the least by my solution.

[alamogunr]

I'm in the process of trying JB Weld. I have never used it before so I tried it out on a couple of small pcs of aluminum strip. Made a right angle and used the JB on it. No clamping or anything. This morning it was very secure. I'll try it on the tenon lug and if that doesn't work, your solution is next. Hopefully the other end of the lug won't separate. I guess the only problem if the JB doesn't work will be to remove the residue before soldering.

What type of solder did you use? I have some silver solder but I think it requires a higher temp than I am comfortable with. Will standard tin/lead solder work?

John
W.TN

[Maven]

John, I soldered the shim brass band (just wide enough to fit in the tenon) with ordinary solder and a Weller soldering gun. You'll want to overlap the 2 ends of the band by ~1/8" or 3/16" to get a stronger bond and make sure the overlapped end stays on the bottom (else you won't be able to press the wedge back in).

[alamogunr]

Thanks Maven. As I said I have secured it with the JB Weld and it seems to work. If it doesn't hold, I will try the shim brass and solder. I am printing your reply and putting it with the gun. All too often I want to refer to something and can't find it later.

John
W.TN