Smelting and later casting or all at once?

[toddx]

I am getting geared up to cast for my .308. I met a guy at my range who invited me over to look at his casting operation. He uses a cast iron ladle that holds a cup or so. He throws in the WW's and heats it all up, smelts, removes the bad stuff, throws a pinch of candle wax to flux and check heat temp by how quick the wax ignites and then casts. He allowed me to cast a few boolits.
My question is:
Seems like most guys on this forum smelt and make ingots, let them set and then cast at a later date.
What is the advantage to smelt/cast vs. smelt once day and cast another?
My friend claims to have cast nearly 3 tons of lead for his .375, 30-30, .22 hornet, .41, and many others with great success over the last 20 years or so.
Thanks

[GP100man]

Nothing really if ya ladle you can get away with doing it like that & I cast for yrs. doing the same thing , even checking the temp !!

But a bottom pour caster needs to keep his casting melter as clean as possible !!!
So we smelt a supply of ingots up to have on hand !

The ladler as described cast boolits with this mind set : keep the alloy hot what the temp is who knows just hot !!! & the mold cool enuff to prevent frosting or oxidizing of the alloy!!

The bottom caster works to keep the alloy a certain temp so they can cast as fast as possible without overheating the mold !!

I ladled for yrs. & my needs were met , then I went bottom pouring & found I could produce more faster !!

I guess the Tim-the -Toolman thing kiked in ????

Now I know this does`nt deplict all ladlers or bottom casters , but gives a general idea !

Everybodys mileage varies !!!

[chris in va]

I separate the two processes as the wheelweights I get are usually very nasty.

[fredj338]

I can smelt 100# of alloy in an hour or so. I do it in the backyard. I cast in the garage, usually when the eather is bad. I also smelt in a spearate iron pot & cast w/ a bottoem pour pot, so totally diff events for me.

[easyrider604]

I have a Lee 20 lb bottom pour and in the beginning, I combined smelting/casting. The dirt/slag will always float, so no matter how contaminated your WWs are, the bottom spout would only have clean lead through it. You do have to keep stirring the melt and skimming off the steel clips, ash, sand and WHY as well as keep the melt level above one-third to be sure only clean lead goes through the bottom spout.

However, I like casting bullets better than smelting, and I get in the groove and cast at a comfortable and sustainable pace, up to 6 hours at a time. Smelting disrupts my rhythm and only for this reason, I smelt and make ingots.

For small batches, smelt/cast is quite doable and I am fine with that.

[onondaga]

Sounds like a wonderful way to start. Keep it simple. The rest will come and you may try different methods. I cast my first bullets for a flintlock rifle when I was 7 years old. Did it like Davey Crockett did in the movies, or like you may have seen Mel Gibson do it with a ladle over coals in the movie "The Patriot". That works fine.

I have a bottom pour 4-20 Lee now and cast/shoot about 100 lbs a year in a variety of calibers and 12 ga slugs too. I enjoy it as much as shooting, I am 60 years old. Smelting ingots keeps the crud out of my good pot.

If you are going to hunt with your .308, Try a gas checked flat nose bullet too. They smack harder, expand better and knock down deer better than any jacketed bullet can. That is a serious upgrade from factory ammo. Try to get your alloy as close to Lyman #2 alloy as you can for hunting bullets. Size them .002" over your groove to groove slugged bore diameter and you'll likely work up a tack driving load also.

Gary

[Walter Laich]

I've done it both ways. I like to make it two operations.

Smelting is a messy operation compared to casting.

[mooman76]

Nothing wrong with either way. Mostly just a time thing. I believe most that smelt will do a bucket or more at a time which does take a little while and when you want to make boolits, that can take some time too unless you are just making a few. I went to a friends house some time ago that I met on the range. He started casting while we were talking. What amased me was he would just cast a boolit or two every so often while we were sitting there casually talking. It never even occured to me to cast like that. hen I cast, I cast. I may talk but I don't stop and start. That's just the way I do.

[Recluse]

Like most casters, I have a fair stash of lead/allow already in ingot form, so when I smelt, I'm doing so in order to add to my inventory--so therefore, smelting is usually a separate operation.

However, I know plenty of folks who do just as your friend does--toss in the wheel weights, skim the crud, flux, flux some more, then start pouring boolits.

Long as you're safe, no right or wrong way to do it.

:coffee:

[FISH4BUGS]

...but you can do it your way too. I almost ruined a lee 20 lb pot by doing my smelting and casting from the same place. The junk built up so bad it clogged and only explosives would clean it.
Of all the tasks in this great hobby, smelting is probably my least favorite activity. Shooting full auto forces me to cast and reload....not that I mind....that's why they call it our HOBBY. productivity is important to me.
Smelting allows you to produce CLEANER ingots because you can control it in a larger space and flux better, scrape the junk off the sides and bottom better, and have just pure ww lead coming out of the ladle and into the ingots.
Nothing wrong with what you are doing but once you get on a roll and cast (I use a lot of 4-6-10 cavity Hensley & Gibbs moulds) it lowers your productivity dramatically.
If you have ingots, you can have a 20 lb pot full to the top with another 7-10 lbs heating on top. Lower the level in the pot by casting, and drop a few of those ingots in and many times you don't even have to slow down....much anyway. While the ingots are melting, you have about enough time to get the sprues and reject bullets separated and back into the pot. Then it starts all over. You get into the groove and you can cast one heck of a lot of bullets, even with 2 cavity moulds.
You can do it your way, my way, or a hundred (well that MIGHT be a bit of an exaggeration) different ways. It all works. Productivity is important, remember? I don't have a lot of spare time so I want to make the most of it.
If you get a smelting setup done,. make sure you have PLENTY of ingot moulds. I have about 20 or so and it makes a HUGE difference in output.
Enjoy....it is a great way to spend some time.

[Cowboy T]

I prefer two separate operations, since I use an electric downpour-spout pot for boolit casting. First operation (initial meltdown into muffin ingots) is in a Dutch Oven over the fish fryer. Second operation (casting boolits) is in a Lee Pro 4-20. Keeps my alloy and my electric pot cleaner.

[bhn22]

Think of smelting as refining. You take the raw material, clean it and prepare it for use. It's a dirty process, and casting needs to be a clean(er) process to be effective. Dirt from the bottom of your smelting pot can get caught up in your bullets, producing undesirable results. Like most here, I prefer to concentrate on each step separately to maximize my efficiency. As always, YMMV. You may like it, but I get hot enough smelting, hovering over a large pot of molten lead doesn't sound like much fun to me.

[Three44s]

I double smelt!

I take a large amount of wheel weights and run out ingots. Then I re-run those ingots and re-flux them as well.

There is no such thing as all the crud staying above the bottom of a bottom pour. If it's not clean it will migrate down into the mold!

The other advantage with running your ingots over is that you mix your alloy better. Variations as to alloy content are leveled out.

Three 44s

[timkelley]

To me, smelting is work and casting is fun. I'm old and I try not to work much any more.

[Dennis Eugene]

From Three44's
There is no such thing as all the crud staying above the bottom of a bottom pour. If it's not clean it will migrate down into the mold!

This I believe to be true. I will smelt in one pot while casting out of another . I cast while smelt is melting where I can keep an eye on it, then put aside my casting while makeing ingots,ect.ect. but never in the same pot. Altho more often than not I just cast as one smelting session yeilds many ingots. Dennis

[Donor8x56r]

I have a bottom pour Lee and I do whole thing in one process.

I just don't have the time to melt the same lead twice,not to mention lack of proper equipment.

Once I make bigger pot I will separate process for one reason - keeping alloy consistent as much as possible.

I clean pot every time so dirt is not a problem at all.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

makes a good flux!

[BAGTIC]

I smelt and clean all my lead at once. It is a stinky, smokey job that needs to be done outside.

Using cleaned ingots I later cast my bullets. In bad weather I can do casting in the protection/shade of a small shed by placing an exhaust fan in the window and keeping the pot between me and the fan.

[Dennis Eugene]

From Bagtic
I smelt and clean all my lead at once. It is a stinky, smokey job that needs to be done outside.
Roger that. Dennis