Getting a new C.S. Richmond..need advice about minie rounds

[LKD]

So, couldn't pass up the deal from Dixie Gun Works on the Armi Sport C.S. Richmond. I shoot flintlocks already, but have never owned my own percussion rifle.

I'm pretty sure I want to get into casting my own conicals, but I'm looking for a good source for conicals so that I can get a feel for what's going to work best with this rifle.

Does anybody own one of these rifles, and what (commercial) conicals would you recommend I get until I get set up with casting my own?

(I also won't turn down recommendations for moulds for this rifle as well :) )

DGW says the rifle is 39.937" in length rifled w/three grooves, 1 in 66" twist. I have no idea what the land and groove diameters are at the moment.

Thanks in advance for any help (and be gentle, this is my first post here :-P )

[10 ga]

You might also try patched roundball. There are a plenty of them on the old battlefields here in VA. More minie balls but plenty of RBs too. The RB will probably shoot more accurately but the minie is way faster to load. 10

[oldhickory]

The 575213OS is the old standard and close to original, but it's best to get the gun first and measure the rifling lands first. If you don't have acess to a set of pin gauges, ask a local machine shop to measure it for you, (they would most likely do this for a very small fee, should only take a few minutes). Let's say it measures .578" -the proper size Burton boolit, (Minie) will be .577-.576".

As for molds and boolit type, there's a wide variety in .58 hollow base ranging in weight from 315gr. to almost 600gr. None have ever shot poorly for me, but it's all in what you want. Most likely the traditional Old Style weighing 460-510gr. will fill your needs very well, just size to .001-002" under land dia. and work the powder charges up from around 40gr. in 5gr. increments, (most of my originals like between 45-55gr. with a 460gr. boolit). You'll need a push through sizer, (vice mounted, around $20.00). Melt lube in an old pie pan on low heat, dip the base to cover the grooves and run through the sizer with a dowel shaped close to the base.

There's a lot more to it, but that'll get you started.

[LKD]

The 575213OS is the old standard and close to original, but it's best to get the gun first and measure the rifling lands first.
...
There's a lot more to it, but that'll get you started.

oldhickory, I can't thank you enough for that succinct summary of what I need to do. I'm going to take some baby steps at the moment though -- I discovered that Track Of The Wolf offers Lyman 575-213 old style, 460 grain mines as well as the Lyman 575-213 510gr minies. This will give me a chance to evaluate the suitability of the kind of shooting I'd like to do (targets at 100-200yds, no critter hunting). I also ordered some round ball for comparison.

Manufacturer spec shows that lands are .576 and grooves are .585 (or maybe my mm to in conversion is crappy).

For future reference, where might I find a sizer at? I'm kinda coming up on a dead end (but I'm just a "codger" not an "old codger" yet :D )

[oldhickory]

Sorry, I meant to put some sorces for sizers in my first post. These are 3 suttlers that serve the N-SSA. You can also buy loading tubes from these guys, (plastic, they hold around 50gr. powder, you cap them with the boolit, bite-pour-ram the rubber ones hold more powder, but aren't as secure). Lodgewood at least also sells rear sight blanks you can use in place of the factory sight in case it isn't "on". For best accuracy you might want to glass the tang and breech area to about 2-3" forward stopping justbefore the rammer spoon cut out. A bedded rifle musket with a tuned load should shoot 1.5-2" groups from the bench at 100yds. regularly.

www.ssfirearms.com www.lodgewood.com www.regtqm.com

[Baron von Trollwhack]

The search function here is your best helper. There is a hidden book here and search can tell you better than a few replies. BvT

[LKD]

The search function here is your best helper. There is a hidden book here and search can tell you better than a few replies. BvT

Oh, I've been using the search function here, Baron. It's the "hidden" part that's makin' my eyes cross :) I'm finding awesome bits and pieces of stuff already.

[10 ga]

When you try the RBs use a good tight patch. Demin, khaki, pillow ticking, muslin whatever will patch tight. I shoot grade F in my 69 smooth and FF in my 58 rifle. Shooting minies in the 69 smooth is a hoot, HUGE keyholes and I can keep them in a 12" circle at 40 yds. No wonder the "Great War of Northern Aggression" was so bloody. 10

[LKD]

Thanks for that, 10ga. I already own a Pedersoli Kentucky flintlock and a TC Hawken, so I have experience with shooting RB. I keep a variety of patches, sorted by thickness, in my possibles bag. I've learned all sorts of things about what you should (and shouldn't...DOH!) do with RB, patches, and lube :)

and 40 yds is what I call "close combat" range. If I'm not punchin a dinner plate with my Kentucky at 80yds, I get all sorts of grumpy :)

[10 ga]

OH yeah, I'm feelin ya! It's just that whenever I have kids or newbies around that want to shoot and want to do a demo, I use the 69 smooth musket first. BIG holes, big flame, big smoke etc... no accuracy. Then go to the 58, 50 and 45 rifles and show how the BP guns really can shoot. I love this stuff! Bob

[LKD]

Well, my first casting experience has been interesting. I got the Lyman 575213OS mould, a Lyman Big Dipper pot, and assorted accouterments and went to town.

Some lessons from my first casting experience:
1) The concept of "upwind" is important. Remedy: check prevailing winds first. Wearing a protective mask won't hurt ya in case the wind shifts.
2) Find some decent flux. Burt's Bees lip balm ain't really the best plan. Remedy: Find some more cooperative flux.
3) Using a dipper pot is a slow process. The Lyman dipper helps keep the gunk out of the boolits, but it's challenging. Remedy: Get a bottom casting pot (looking at a Lee Pro 4-20, which are nigh impossible to find right now)
4) Working with everything on the ground is bad on the back and not good for he melting pot. Remedy: Get something to elevate the work surface.

Anyway, I can now proudly say: :castmine:

Here's a pic of my new babies
http://letskilldave.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/boolits.jpg

[oldhickory]

Good job. (you're casting on the ground? Indian style? Make a bench-buy an old table:)).

My first casting experiance with that boolit and a bottom pour electric furnace proved dismal, I couldn't get it hot enough to cast wrinkle-free boolits, (a 10lb LEE). I ended up plugging the pot with a roofing nail and ladle cast them hot...After that, no wrinkles. The old LEE 10lb'r is still my soft lead pot afterall these years. (Prior to that I used a Coleman camp stove and a dutch oven).

Okay, what size are they? What size is the land dia. in your new Richmond?

[LKD]

I don't have pin gauges, so I'm working from manufacturer's spec, which says it's a tad under .577, with grooves at .585.

I appreciate the comments about the bottom pourer -- I've hear other folks say that the Lee doesn't do a great job of maintaining a consistent temp as well. Since my budget won't support the cost of the more expensive bottom pourers, I'll likely stick to this Lyman big dipper pot for now.

I don't have a sizer either, but the test casts I did yielded minies that fit nicely in the barrel, but not too loose nor too snug. I still need to lube and shoot 'em, but that's a task for tomorrow.

[oldhickory]

Lubing them's easy. An old pie pan on a low burner works well. I make mine from bee's wax and Crisco. 2lb of bees wax melted, then add about 1lb Crisco and test, (dip a boolit, let cool to room temp. and rub the lube with your finger, if the lube doesn't slicken your finger-add more Crisco until it does-sounds kinda crude, but it's worked for most 40yrs now. cold weather-add more Crisco. warm weather-add more bees wax.)

[Rio Grande]

Right now theres a guy selling 550 Minies on the 'for sale' forum.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=106910
Fair price. If I still had my Parker-Hale (why o why did I sell it!!!!) I'd jump on that deal.

[NickSS]

I have several 58 muskets, rifles and musketoons in my collection. One of them is a euroarms Richmand rifled musket that shoots quite well. I have a minni mold that casts a 400 gr minni that has deep lube grooves that measure .577". I do not size them but shoot them as cast with a lube made of 50-50 bees wax and crisco. In my richmond musket I get consistent bench rest groups of around 2 inches at 100 yards. My best shooting 58 is my Parker Hale musketoon. With that bullet and 45 gr of FFFG GOEX I get 75 caliber 10 shot groups at 50 yards from a benchrest.