OAL for MiHec 45-200-SWC (HG #68)

[oscarflytyer]

I am casting with MiHec's 6 gang mold from the group buy (about a year ago?). It is the 45-200-SWC mold, a clone of the H&G#68, if IIRC.

I am not finding a load listed for that bullet to get an OAL. See a few Lyman bullets that are close and most show 1.235", and I found a similar one with a listed OAL 1.275"

What OAL are you guys that shoot this boolit using? Do I seat it out as far as I can and still chamber (new to loading for an auto)?

Plan to use 5.0 grn Bullseye as my load. Thoughts?

Thanx

[bobthenailer]

for the orgional HG #68 and most clones, COL for the 45 ACP is 1.255 to 1.265 , and taper crimped

[ChuckS1]

Here's some good information for you from another forum dedicated to the M1911A1...

"The ideal OAL for a .45acp reload is best determined by using the barrel as a case gauge. Every barrel may have slight tolerance differences in the throat area, so it is best to use your own barrel to set the OAL. I do what is called the drop test. I remove the barrel, hold the barrel in one hand with the muzzle pointed to the floor, then drop a reload in the chamber. The reload shoot enter freely, and not bind going in. The base of the brass case should be even or flush with the hood extension. It the bullet seats lower than the end of the hood, try a bit longer OAL for that bullet. The ideal length will be one that allows the reload to sit flush with the hood extension. So why, would you ask, is this best? The answer is positive and uniform primer iginition. If the round is seated flush with the hood of the barrel, then the round is pretty much flush with the breech face of the slide. If the cartridge is not flush, it can move forward under impact of the firing pin, and may not allow uniform and consistent firing pin hits. This may lead to erratic ignition of the primer. The .45 cartridge headspaces on the case mouth. Unfortunately, not all cases will be the same length, and the taper crimp will also slightly change the way the bullet seats in the chamber. By adjusting the length of the bullet, so it just touches the lands and grooves, allows a secure base for the firing pin strike, and won't allow the cartridge to move in the chamber. This is often recommended in reloading manuals to improve accuracy. Adjust the OAL for your barrel, and don't go by what people use in their barrels....each barrel has its own specs. A worst case scenario would be a slightly shorter than normal brass case with a "high" primer (not fully seated) with a heavy firing pin spring. If the case were to move slightly forward, this lessens the impact of the already heavy firing spring....add the movement of the primer in the primer pocket, and you may get a "Failure to Fire" that shows a light primer hit."

Here's another thread (http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=298905) that has more details.

[BeemerMark]

Here's some good information for you from another forum dedicated to the M1911A1...


That's the worse advice I've seen yet on a forum. The 45 acp head spaces on the case mouth, not the bullet. The bullet shoulder should be a hair below the case mouth to ensure that the lead bullet isn't spacing the cartridge. The OAL is what ever that dimension works out to be. You then need to determine a suitable load for the OAL.

The 1.275 dimension is the MINIMUM length that the chamber is cut to. If you get a cartridge longer then that the bullet may jam into the rifling. Theorectically the cartridge can be as short as you want, though in an automatic it probably won't feed.

[ChuckS1]

That's what the post said, "The .45 cartridge headspaces on the case mouth." The point was that the OP should check to see what the correct OAL should be using his barrel as the gauge for optimal results.

[35remington]

Beemer:

No.

It is considered proper procedure to have the bullet shoulder slightly above the case mouth. This is correct advice of such long standing that you are swimming upstream against a huge current of advice contrary to yours. Only one opinion is incorrect, and it ain't theirs.

Simply make sure the protrusion above the case mouth does not prevent proper chambering. Correctly done, and with a pistol with a normal throat, about 1/32" is above the shoulder in most instance.

Further, it is correct to headspace on the bullet if it is so desired and if it still allows the cartridge to fully chamber.

A great many people do this. It works fine. It is not incorrect to do so. Perfect functioning can be had.

Whether the bullet jams into the leade depends upon the throating of your particular barrel. Checking for proper chambering allows for throats of all tolerances to be considered, and whatever overall length that fits and feeds is proper.

The OAL of 1.275" is for magazine clearance and is a good not to exceed length. Ball duplicate shapes usually finish around 1.265." Exact overall length of the cartridge depends on the exact shape and nose to bearing surface length of the particular bullet used. Depending upon type, whether stubby target SWC or hollowpoint or ball ammo, proper OAL may range from (usually) around 1.175" to 1.265." Different magazines may be needed to feed the very shortest lengths.

A cartridge of a length much shorter than 1.275" may still jam its bullet into the rifling. Short SWC's with too much shoulder protrusion above the case mouth are one example of this.

Yes, the 45 ACP is designed to headspace off the case mouth, but it is equally valid to headspace on the bullet with perfect results as long as the cartridge chambers fully.

Most do, and will.

The reason for seating the bullet such that it is flush with the hood as leading to "uniform primer ignition" is probably not as important as it seems. The 1911 has such a protrusion from its firing pin that as long as the case is headspaced solidly (even if the length varies) primer strike will be plenty uniform enough. Even short cases will receive a full blow from a 1911 firing pin.

The effect of varying case length on reasonable accuracy in the 1911 is quite doubtful. Headspacing on the bullet is sorta of a way to achieve uniformity, but it is not necessary to achieve quite good enough accuracy in any 1911.

The limitation of the gun itself will be more operative than varying case length (assuming case mouth headspacing is used).

[captaint]

35Rem - Thank for a little insight into reality... enjoy Mike

[MtGun44]

1.260 used to be my standard, for decades. Bought a Dan Wesson Pointman 7 and
the throat was shorter and tighter, had to move back to 1.250 to make it work 100% in
that gun, so that is my std length, works just fine in the other guns, too.

+1 on the dismounted barrel as THE gauge for your ammo, with the correlary that your
tightest chamber and shortest throat will rule if the ammo has to work in multiple guns.

Bill

[oscarflytyer]

1.260 used to be my standard, for decades. Bought a Dan Wesson Pointman 7 and
the throat was shorter and tighter, had to move back to 1.250 to make it work 100% in
that gun, so that is my std length, works just fine in the other guns, too.

+1 on the dismounted barrel as THE gauge for your ammo, with the correlary that your
tightest chamber and shortest throat will rule if the ammo has to work in multiple guns.

Bill

Think I dropped down from OAL of 1.250" to 1.225" recently to accomodate my son's new 1911 and the 45 ACP conv cylinder in my Ruger BH. My 1911 must have a slighlty longer chamber, as it worked great w/ the 1.250"

[geargnasher]

+1,000 35Remington, that's some of the BEST advice and information regarding that subject on the internet.

As for the M-P 45-200 SWC, I've worked up a "universal" load recently and checked nine automatics and two revolvers. After re-doing five dummies several times, 1.261" ended up being the MAX, limited by the magazines. Even in the pistols with virtually no throat, sizing to .452" (actual size, not just pushing the boolits through a sizer so marked) let nearly half the front band poke out of the case for nice pilot in the barrel. Seating to 1.250" severely and noticeably opens groups in several 1911s that I've tested with this boolit, and it's worth mentioning that all of those guns will work fine with .4535" boolits and a .475" crimp while chambering an OAL of 1.270" with that boolit. It seems that many of the plastic pistols have tighter chambers near the front and shorter throats than many production 1911s.

Also, taper-crimping to .472" and letting the case mouth swage into the front band a tiny bit helps feeding, chambering, and helps prevent possible telescoping.

Gear

[MtGun44]

35 Rem makes excellent points. As to " The 1911 has such a protrusion from its firing pin that as long as the case is headspaced solidly (even if the length varies) primer strike will be plenty uniform enough."

I heartily agree and point out that a 1911 (before the silly series 80 stuff, and maybe after, never checked)
will poke the firing pin about 3/8" or more out of the breech face. My bet is you could cut a .45 ACP case down
to HALF the normal length and drop it into the chamber and then fire the gun successfully, at least as far as
the firing pin reaching the primer. Clearly it would not extract with the case head far ahead of the extractor.

Bill

[gray wolf]

35Rem -His advise is all you need, for me a #68 OAL is 1.240

That's the worse advice I've seen yet on a forum. The 45 acp head spaces on the case mouth, not the bullet. The bullet shoulder should be a hair below the case mouth to ensure that the lead bullet isn't spacing the cartridge. The OAL is what ever that dimension works out to be. You then need to determine a suitable load for the OAL.

The 1.275 dimension is the MINIMUM length that the chamber is cut to. If you get a cartridge longer then that the bullet may jam into the rifling. Theorectically the cartridge can be as short as you want, though in an automatic it probably won't feed.
I think you should do a little more reading and a little less talking. Or perhaps acquire a little better understanding of what's going on. 35 REM has nailed it to the wall.
Just sayin