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jhalcott
11-04-2006, 06:11 PM
O K, I was told on this forum that IF I used the correct top punch I would NOT get damaged noses.! I want to see these guys push a banana thru a keyhole using a marshmellow! I'm using soft lead about 7-8 bhn for the nose and linotype 22 bhn for the base of a 250 grain 35 cal bullet. I would not bother to size them if they didn't need it. My bore is .3575 and the mold drops a .3614 slug(factory brass must be turned and trimmed to fit,custom barrel). The hornady gas checks don't fit the base very well so I tried a Lee base first sizer .It doesn't work to well either,the checks aren't seated all the way and the dia. is .360 which is STILL too large. Now for those who DO size their soft nose cast bullets ,PLEASE TELL ME HOW YOU DO IT?!
PS I do have and use the correct (fitted) top punch!

Harry O
11-04-2006, 06:47 PM
I guess that is why the two-part (composite) Lyman moulds (such as the 358624 I have) have a top punch for the unassembled bullet bottom only. I don't have any solution for your situation.

grumpy one
11-04-2006, 06:53 PM
Seems like you have the worst of all worlds here. First, if you are downsizing a largish bullet by several thousandths, that is a somewhat extreme situation. Second, the driving bands, which are the part being sized, are pretty hard and therefore take considerable sizing force. Third, the nose is particularly soft, so providing this large sizing force via the nose is a lot to ask.

My bullets are only 30 calibre, and are uniformly 22 BHN. If I size them down more than .001", they show a ring on the nose from the outside of the (correct) nose punch. If I size them down .003", the grease grooves are smeared and mashed by displaced lead.

To solve your problems, my suggestion is that you do two things. First, seat your gas checks in a separate operation, because if you don't fully seat them you seem bound to get bad accuracy results. Second, size nose first so the force to push the bullet through the sizing die is applied to the 22 BHN bullet base, not the 5 BHN bullet nose. That should eliminate your problems.

Geoff

jhalcott
11-04-2006, 07:48 PM
Yes, I had a nose punch made to push on the front driving band. I also seat the checks in a separate step. The nose punch does not allow the slug to be completely sized though. The Lee is about .360 diameter so I guess I will have to get a special order one to size the bullet to .3585 which I THINK will work. I tried teflon taping some of these 358318's so I could quit sizing and GCing them but seated in the brass they were tight in the chamber. I'm going to Maine in 2 weeks and want to take this gun BUT...?

Nrut
11-04-2006, 08:36 PM
jhalcott....several weeks ago I casted up some softnose bullets...I did it by first casting up some pure Pb .30cal Lee soup can bullets...then I cut off the bottom of the soup can bullet at the first lube groove with side cutters to get the amout of lead I wanted for the softnose....I put that piece of Pb in a ladle and floated it in my bottom pour pot full of WW's....and casted up some ACWW bullets to get the mold good and hot....then I ladled the Pb into one of the cav. of a RCBS .377/250gr mold followed by ACWW for the bullet base...that gives me a soft nose down to around the crimp groove(the bullets usually look like hell at the joint but BruceB addressed that problem on his softnose thread last night,I'll say no more)....Then I lubed and gas checked the bullet in Star .382" sizer(for 38-55).....THEN I sized that bullet in a push thru .368" BuckShot sizer to use in my CZFS 550 9.3X62 (thats sizing down .009").....No problems,bullet looks great(no unsightly seam between the Pb and WW) and the ACWW bullets made up earlier have put 5 into a group less than .75" at 100 ahead of 35 grs. of H4895......my jamtart load[smilie=1:
As a side note unrelated to your problem the gas ckeck is well into the body of the case but the target says that is OK...
There is more info here than you asked for but I figured if I laid it all out there would be less confusion...
Hope this helps....:)
One last thing ...you have to make sure your push thru die is adjusted low so you push the bullet thru with the push-thru dealy-bob and not the next bullet....that saves your softnose and stops a dimpled gas check from happening....speaking from experience...

Bass Ackward
11-04-2006, 08:54 PM
Yes, I had a nose punch made to push on the front driving band. I also seat the checks in a separate step. The nose punch does not allow the slug to be completely sized though. The Lee is about .360 diameter so I guess I will have to get a special order one to size the bullet to .3585 which I THINK will work. I tried teflon taping some of these 358318's so I could quit sizing and GCing them but seated in the brass they were tight in the chamber. I'm going to Maine in 2 weeks and want to take this gun BUT...?


JHA,

It is always more difficult when you are under stress. Here is something I did today that may set your mind at ease.

I had about 65 rounds left of a cast bullet load in 44 Mag that has been a poor performer and I wanted the cases. Loads consistently ran 5" @ 30 yards and leaded up the wazoo. As a joke, I took a battey powered drill with a 9/64ths bit and drilled, by hand, hollow points in the nose of loaded ammo while others geered. I joked that if it wasn't target ammo, I would make hunting ammo out of it.

I established a pool to bet on the resulting group size. Stupid me, I bet about 7" and lost. These things were drilled off center, some deeper than others, and some were even crooked. They were ug......ly.

Actual group size turned out to be 3/4". Yep. .750. Fluke! BS was yelled from the back. (Thanks dad!) So .... I had to drill some more. Three cylinders full average 1 1/8" at 30 yards. And not a spec of leading to be found. Figure that one out!

So the joke moved to the Whelen. 255 grain cast. Same trick, different horse. That was a handgun blah, blah, blah. Two five shot groups averaged 1 1/4" at 100 yards.

So much for perfect or balanced or all the same weight bullets.

imashooter2
11-04-2006, 11:19 PM
Push them through a Lee sizer first. Adds a step, but you aren't casting softpoints by the thousand anyway.

Wayne Smith
11-05-2006, 09:00 AM
Something to consider - you can accomplish the same thing using wdww for the base and size them immediately after casting. I have done this with some and lost a couple but the rest sized down fine. This was with 314299 if I remember correctly. Several weeks to a month later they are fully hard. Unfortunately, you apparently don't have time to do this for this trip.

cbrick
11-05-2006, 04:24 PM
The hornady gas checks don't fit the base very well so I tried a Lee base first sizer .It doesn't work to well either,the checks aren't seated all the way and the dia. is .360 which is STILL too large.

Here is my solution to poor fitting GC's whether its composite bullets or not. I size all of my checks for a perfect fit, flat and no shaving lead from the shanks. I made up gas check sizers for every caliber that I cast for. Works great and only adds about 15 or 20 minutes to loading a box of 100 rounds.

The die body is a Lyman "M" die shortened to allow the plug to extend below the die body. The plug holder is a 45 ACP (the longest one I've found) and the plug is turned to properly size one caliber of checks, flat bottom and slightly tapered sides. The anvil is a RCBS #3 extended shell holder (there is no hole in the middle) that was faced off square and flat. Once you have the die body, plug holder and anvil you only need a new plug (about $3.00) for each new caliber. The Lyman "M" die is about $14.00 from Midway so this is an economical way to have perfectly fitted checks regardless of mould/alloy dimensions of the shank.

If you size your checks to fit properly, the nose first sizing should give you a perfect bullet every time. The nose is never touched and the flat punch will push it through a nose first die holding the check in place and against the bullet base until its crimped. I use the Star lubrizer and a flat punch that's nearly bullet diameter, just small enough to not rub the sides of the sizer die.

The top photo is the individual parts. Middle photo its assembled and bottom photo its in the Rock Chucker sizing a 30 cal check.

http://www.lasc.us/CheckSizer.jpg

Hope this helps.

Rick

Nrut
11-05-2006, 05:00 PM
cbrick...is the plug threaded into the plug holder?

jhalcott...what is the problem you having with your GC's ?
1... are they shaving lead ie. to small for bullet shank
2... or do the GC's come off to easliy ie. GC's are to large for bullet shank?

cbrick
11-05-2006, 05:16 PM
Nrut. Yes, that's standard Lyman "M" die. The plugs thread into the plug holder and are interchangeable. Only the other end needs to be modified to properly fit and size the gas check.

Nrut
11-05-2006, 05:28 PM
Thanks cbrick...I have been using RCBS expanding dies and now use Lee's universal expander....I have never seen a Lyman M die, but will have to get one as even I could make the plugs the right dia./shape with just a drill press, angle grinder,file, and some wet dry paper....thanks again!

cbrick
11-05-2006, 06:15 PM
Nrut,

That's how I made the first one and it worked very poorly. I had it nearly perfect but just couldn't get the bottom of the plug completely flat and square to the anvil and it has to be or size one side of the check. I turned the plugs and the anvil over to a machinist buddy, about 10 minutes in a lathe to square up the ends and all of the plugs and the anvil were perfect.

jhalcott
11-06-2006, 12:01 AM
The checks are too small and shave a bit of the base when i seat them> Then ocassionally they come off when I shoot them. This MAY be my fault as I did NOT notice they were going on a bit crooked at first.I was too worried about nose damage!? I'd get an ugly ring on the nose and toss the bullet into the reject bowl. The extra step seating checks with the special top punch is a pain as I have to put the bullet into the punch then put the punch with bullet into the sizer . I have a small flat piece of steel that I slip between the bullet base and the nut that holds the die down. Then I pull down on the handle and seat the check. Remove the flat steel then the punch then the bullet and start again!

cbrick
11-06-2006, 12:11 AM
The checks are too small and shave a bit of the base when i seat them> Then ocassionally they come off when I shoot them. This MAY be my fault as I did NOT notice they were going on a bit crooked

jhalcott,

Try sizing your gas checks so that they are a proper fit flat against the bullet base without any shaving of the shank and then size nose first. They go on easy, are flat & square & you'll get no damaged bullets.