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View Full Version : 45 ACP boolit sizing recommendation/help



oscarflytyer
01-19-2011, 06:21 PM
I am casting with MiHec's 6 cavity 45-200-SWC mold. Quick check looks like it is dropping 'about' .454 about an hour after casting. Using WWs with 2% tin added.

Have slugged my 45 bbl and it slugs at .451. What size do you recommend I size my bullets to (if any)? Thanx

convert69
01-19-2011, 06:26 PM
I'm using .452 in my RCBS lube a matic

RobS
01-19-2011, 06:28 PM
452 should be fine, however if you haven't done so already read up on age hardening so you don't have issues with the brass cases sizing your bullet down. .454 may work as is should the loaded round chamber if you don't want to size them. With the larger diameter .454 I would start at the minimum loads in manuals and work up though.

243winxb
01-19-2011, 07:38 PM
.452" is standard. You may find .4515" to be the most accurate.

oscarflytyer
01-19-2011, 08:57 PM
452 should be fine, however if you haven't done so already read up on age hardening so you don't have issues with the brass cases sizing your bullet down. .454 may work as is should the loaded round chamber if you don't want to size them. With the larger diameter .454 I would start at the minimum loads in manuals and work up though.

Rob - once again thanx for saving me from myself!

Can you pls help point me in the right direction on research of 'age hardening so you don't have issues with the brass cases sizing your bullet down.' First I have heard of that. Also, is there a time period that a newly cast bullet needs to 'age' before it settles into a static state, size wise?

I plan to work up some test bullets to see how they chamber. I am also going to have to learn to taper crimp on the fly. All I have ever done is heavy roll crimp my 44s. That's easy... And the work up part I also planned to do as well.

RobS
01-19-2011, 09:07 PM
For the 45 auto most firearms will take a loaded round .472 at the mouth of the brass so crimp to that for starters and it should just take out the flare from the belling process.

As for aging air cooled WW's, it's safe to say that at two weeks the bullet will have reach it's maximal hardness for all practical purposes. At 5-7 days they may be hard enough to load and not have any swage of the boolit from the brass. If a person was to shoot some real soft boolits then it may come down to using an expander that will take the sized brass and enlarge it to a point that is .001-.002 under the diameter of the boolit. If you are using air cooled WW's then it should not be a problem in the 45 acp.

There is ways to speed up age hardening with the use of an oven.

dlviolin
02-04-2011, 12:04 PM
Hope it's ok to jump in with a related question here.

I'm casting w/ a Lee 90351 dropping a .452 round nose 228 gr., WW water quenched for .45 ACP.

OCL=1.260. Without sizing, using a Lee taper crimp die and crimping to .471, the boolit is still loose enough in the case that when chambered the inertia of the slide causes the boolit to creep forward often as much as .025", and upon removing from the chamber is loose enough to spin by hand in the case. I have to crimp down to .464 :shock: to keep it tight and then only in Federal and Win brass. With R P brass I can't get it tight enough. (All brass is at least once fired.)

Do I need to worry about crimping it that much and/or is it ok to experience some creep?

Thanks for the help,
Dan in still cold and white Kansas City

Doby45
02-04-2011, 01:04 PM
Sounds like your brass was never sized. I know it sounds like a newb thing to do but make sure your brass is being sized down by your sizing die. My once fired, mixed headstamp brass O.D. is averaging .473, sized it measures .466. Make sure your brass is sized.

fredj338
02-04-2011, 03:07 PM
Hope it's ok to jump in with a related question here.

I'm casting w/ a Lee 90351 dropping a .452 round nose 228 gr., WW water quenched for .45 ACP.

OCL=1.260. Without sizing, using a Lee taper crimp die and crimping to .471, the boolit is still loose enough in the case that when chambered the inertia of the slide causes the boolit to creep forward often as much as .025", and upon removing from the chamber is loose enough to spin by hand in the case. I have to crimp down to .464 :shock: to keep it tight and then only in Federal and Win brass. With R P brass I can't get it tight enough. (All brass is at least once fired.)

Do I need to worry about crimping it that much and/or is it ok to experience some creep?

Thanks for the help,
Dan in still cold and white Kansas City
I've loaded more lead bullets in the 45acp than I care to rmember & have never had this problem w/ properly sized cases & 0.452" lead bullets, regardless of brass manuf. You should be full length sizing. If the bullets are still loose in the case, you need to send that sizing die back.

Blammer
02-04-2011, 03:10 PM
incase someone hasn't said it, I'd size to .452. :D

beagle
02-04-2011, 03:12 PM
I'll agree with the previous post. You should get no bullet movement with properly loaded .45 ACP cast loads.

If you are, either you're doing something wrong or have a bad die./beagle

MtGun44
02-04-2011, 03:33 PM
Start with .001 over, and Mr. Target and Mr. Barrel will tell you if they are happy.

If not try a bit larger and a bit smaller, different lube or different boolit design.

Bill

dlviolin
02-04-2011, 04:08 PM
OK, that's the problem...my sizer leaves the case at .473. May be a dummy move on my part assuming that I can use a .45 Colt sizer die???
I'll get an ACP die and see if that fixes the problem.

Thanks for letting me hijack this thread...I'll give it back now:)
Dan in almost thawing Kansas City

MtGun44
02-04-2011, 05:30 PM
.473 ID ???????? A .45 colt boolit/bullet would fall out. OD is mostly irrelevant, your expander
button is the controling factor on case ID, assuming that the sizer is doing enough for the expander
to be working. What is your expander button diameter?

Bill

KYCaster
02-04-2011, 06:12 PM
Sounds like your brass was never sized. I know it sounds like a newb thing to do but make sure your brass is being sized down by your sizing die. My once fired, mixed headstamp brass O.D. is averaging .473, sized it measures .466. Make sure your brass is sized.

Doby, just curious...what brand is your sizing die? My Lee leaves the sized case at .470.


OK, that's the problem...my sizer leaves the case at .473. May be a dummy move on my part assuming that I can use a .45 Colt sizer die???
I'll get an ACP die and see if that fixes the problem.

Thanks for letting me hijack this thread...I'll give it back now:)
Dan in almost thawing Kansas City


My 45 Colt cases are also sized to .470, but even at .473 a case with .012 walls will be .449 ID which shouldn't be a problem with .452 boolits.

dlviolin, are you using a true taper crimp die or is it a "Lee Factory Crimp" die?

Jerry

oscarflytyer
02-04-2011, 08:23 PM
Sized to .452. Shot four diff loads. 2 were less than so-so. One - 5 gr Bullseye was ok, and would have been fine - had I NOT also tried a Power Pistol load! I had read recently that PP was a great powder for this bullet. And it IS! Will prob be my go-to powder. So far, PP has been best in both the 45 ACP and 44 Spc loads. I like that!

dlviolin
02-05-2011, 12:00 AM
Not bad when you guys can help two guys in one day in one thread[smilie=p: You guys are awesome.

So...part of the problem was case sizing a little too large which was fixed by a new sizing die.

BUT...the biggie was that thunk you talk about when you drop the round into the barrel. Didn't thunk, so rather than come complaining to the board the solution revealed itself: the boolit was not seated far enough into the case and the taper crimp die was just shoving the end of the case into the lube groove. Set my OCL to 1.210, get a resounding thunk and the boolit stays put just as it should.

Thanks a bunch boolit guys.

Dan in the sun is always shining somewhere Kansas City.

Doby45
02-05-2011, 01:38 AM
You are welcome there dlviolin.


Doby, just curious...what brand is your sizing die? My Lee leaves the sized case at .470.

I am using a standard Lee 45ACP sizing die.

noylj
02-05-2011, 02:51 AM
"With the larger diameter .454 I would start at the minimum loads in manuals and work up though."
You ALWAYS start with the starting load. It is called that for a reason.
.454" works fine in all my 1911s (even actual custom Bar-Sto barrels) and they are accurate.
Never size until you have tried as-cast.
If you want smaller bullets, try a softer alloy.
Sizing is what you do after the other things don't work.

MtGun44
02-05-2011, 02:44 PM
OK, it was late at night. :-) .473" must be OD. Very far from home so nothing to measure.
Dies to match the cartridge should work best.

Bill

songdog53
02-07-2011, 11:58 AM
If going to size them to .452 i have found Lee Sizer works best cause my Star does seem to have the leverage my single stage press does.

Doby45
02-07-2011, 12:13 PM
My Star gobbles up .454 boolits and makes them beautiful .452 boolits with the greatest of ease.