Smith and Wesson

[KCSO]

I'm putting in a plug for Smith and Wesson. Now I don't like some of their political moves and I don't care for their gun lock, but their factory service really shines. Two weeks ago on the range my back up gun a Smith 40 cal quit working. I tore it open and the drawbar was broken and since I kind of thought this should be warranted I called S and W. I talked to customer service and the fellow on the phone was a real tech, he knew what the problem was, knew how to fix it and told me where to ship the gun. I told him the gun had over 3000 rounds through it, no problem. I told him it was in pieces on my dest at work and he said, "just put the pieces in a box I'll have to tear it down to fix it anyway". The gun went in and two days later I had a work order letter and two weeks to the day I have esentially a brand new gun on my desk.

All this no charge, happy to help you out.

It don't get no better than that!!!

[Old Ironsights]

:drinks:

[Char-Gar]

The Smith and Wesson Service Department has long been the company's long suit. Even in the worst days of Bangor Punta ownership, the Service Department has always been first rate.

It was said in those days, that it was the Production Department's job to make the revolvers, Sales Department to sell the revolvers and the Service Department job to make the work right.

I would never send a SMith for work anywhere but the factory in Springfield for work... IF they will accept it and do the work!

[danski26]

Just the opposite experience here with S&W. My brand new 629 bought from a local dealer was trouble from day one. Accuracy was horrible and the cylinder would unlock under recoil and rotate backwards. The locking notches in the cylinder where peened over within the first 100 rounds.

I sent it back to the factory after complaining "at my expense" and a month later got the piece back with a one sentence letter saying "within factory spec". called to complain again and they said to send it back again "at my expense". I did not! I just was able to unload that piece of junk to a guy even after disclosing all the probs recently. Never again!

[Char-Gar]

danski... what kinda loads were you shooting in that 629 and what year was this

[danski26]

picked it up new in 2004, I think it was a 629-6. loads.....well i tried h110, 2400, 800x, red dot and unique. I tried hornady jacket from 180 up, speer gold dot two different weights, 240 lyman swc, 250 kieth, 300 tc, 300 lbt wfn. I tried lots of different combos and always the same thing. between 6 and 10 inches at 25 yards. Had other shooters try it also.

[Bass Ackward]

Personally, I think everyone is human and it depends on how that person feels that day and whether or not he .... connects with you .... or your problem goes a long way. Imagine the repetition of problems day in, day out. And if management had just came in and said, too much backlog, clear it out, then you can end up on the short end of the stick no matter how nice your were on the phone.

That problem with Smiths is fairly common. Especially with the 29 series. Sometimes you can correct the problem if it's just a burr or a new spring. But since you describe the accuracy issue too, my bet would be endshake. Remember, your notches in the cylinder are rounded. If the cylinder moves far enough forward under fire that cylinder stop that is only held by a small spring, walks right out of the notch. Those frames really distort too.

On the aluminum frames, like my 329pd, you actually get a bright spot just ahead of the stop. And my 329pd has "zero" endplay and the BC gap is a tight .003 so it can't move farther than that. This worn spot is actually from "the frame" buckling up and hitting the cylinder at that point under fire. So the only contact that you have with the stop is the depth of the notch. Period. If end play causes you to lose that, then round and round she goes. That's why I shoot Rugers and limit my stuff to 28,000 for Smiths no matter what year they were made. The aluminum ones the limit is 20,000 psi.

When I got my 329pd, right after they came out, they had the notch height in the rear sight wrong and everything was at least 12 high at 25 yards. My cylinder throats were right around .427 with a .429 bore.

When I called in to Smith, I was put on a conference call and the head guy, what ever his title was, says, "Are you really shooting this?" Huh? "Ahhhh, .... what was I supposed to do with it?", was my origonal response as fear came over me.

They did give me a new rear sight blade free. I was told that the throats were right on target. No problem, I took care of it myself. But what was a shock was the comment. Took me awhile to get over it. What it shows was that dude's ignorance.

Smith is just like every other gun company today. They have one guy who is wacco enough for product development that can relate to us and everyone else is a bean counter.

Just read the resume of Rugers new head guy. Great cost cutter. So look for their rifle barrels to drop to something like 19" because it saves $1.75 per inch, per gun. Don't dry the walnut in the oven as it saves energy. Is that black finishing step really necessary? Stuff like that.

[Swagerman]

Indeed, its the times we live in. If it don't make a profit, we don't make it.

I have old books of history on S&W and Colt, the craftmanship that went into those guns was amazing, the machinery they used was old technology but they, and it, managed to crank out some beautiful revolvers.

One S&W picture shows a bunch of revolver fitters setting around a long table making sure these guns work...guess someone took away that long table many decades ago.

Wonder how that happen??? :confused:

Jim

[Poohgyrr]

S&W has been good for me too. Two pistols from the Bangor days had to go back, but were fixed & returned quick. I still have one. When I phone them, if the person I get doesn't give me answers I like, I just call back later and get someone else. Happens occasionally.

[Char-Gar]

Humn... I have a 6" 29 from the early 70's and a 5" 629 classic from 1992. It is not trick toget 2" 25 yard groups from either. I have never used anything but cast bullets...an NEI clone of the original 250 Keith to be exact. In the 29 I use 10/Unique and the 629 gets 21/AA9 or 20/2400. The 29 load uses ACWW+ 2%sn sized .432. The 629 load uses No. 2 alloy sized .430.

I have had a half dozen other Smith DAs in 44 Mag. over the years and all of them have performed like show ponies.

The 1991 629 Classic is the newest pistol I have tried. I dunno about these knew superlight, super small things. I really want no part of them.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I've just about worn the corners and insides off my 586, it was the only centrefire pistol I had for years and until recently saw heavy service (been shooting big bores and SAs mostly of late). It has one cylinder which does not line up 100%, still shoots a good 6 shot group and an awesome 5 shot group using the other chambers. I'd love to send it back for a new cylinder and a barrel trim to 5" or replacement. Mick.

I didn't use this at work, but represented the Department on numerous occasions with it (and will in the future, Police Fire Games in March 2007! Be there!

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Handguns/81f8ad75.jpg

[Ron]

G'day Mick,
Looking forward to meeting you at the Police & Fire Games. Got my accomodation booked already.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I better get my act together, you shooting pistol or rifle? Mick.

[Ron]

Mick, just pistol, they keep me poor enough!

[Sven Dufva]

S&W make great guns. They have good accuracy and triggers.
Here is one of my best guns.

[Dale53]

I have been an S&W fan for many years. However, I have also seen some funny things that happened over the years. During one of their "off years" I bought a couple of .44 Specials (624 4" and 61/2"). The short one had an action failure that cost me $60.00 to fix (from Smith) and at the same time I had a Stainless Bodyguard that had the hammer pivot pin break off the frame (that also cost me $60.00 in spite of the fact that it was obvious that it was a Smith Failure). Kind of soured me for a while but I got over it.

Oddest thing happened to a close friend. He bought a NEW model 60 (stainless Chief Special) and it's headspace was too tight (by a bunch) to load factory loads. Friend sent it back to the factory and they returned it saying nothing was wrong with it. However, at my suggestion, my friend had marked the cylinder and it was returned with a new, proper, cylinder and everything tuned properly (but they said nothing was wrong with the original and did NOT acknowledge that they had repaired it[smilie=1:.

I still have a number of Smith's and they are fine pieces. I do have that original 624 4" and now it has a broken firing pin... I'll get the part and fix it myself. I believe that it was made when the Brits owned S&W and I suspect that the materials were not quite up to snuff. This one has been fired very little.

Dale53

[felix]

If you have a great revolter of any brand, treasure it! 90 percent of them are not worth anything near their purchased price. And only 5, of the 10 remaining, are fixable enough to be considered a genuine keeper. ... felix

[BruceB]

Smith & Wesson guns have been part of my "shooting life" for four decades, and have provided me with great entertainment and reliable service. This includes personal defence, formal Bullseye and International target shooting, and just plain fun.

My first Smith was a well-used British-proofed Victory Model in .38 S&W, which worked great but was woefully underpowered. Not the gun's fault, of course. Two of my co-workers on the Giant Yellowknife Mines exploration crew had Smiths, one was a 4" Highway Patrolman and the other an 8.375" Model 27. Once I tried those two, I was hooked, gaffed and landed. A 6" Model 29 .44 soon arrived and my Smith Days were well under way.

A pair of Model 52 target-ready .38 autoloaders have served my wife and I well since 1970, both of them being around the 150,000-round mark now due to extensive target-shooting as mentioned above. Over many years of auto-peestol ownership, these are surely among the most reliable of the lot, and they fire a rimmed revolver round! No parts failures of any description...

About a dozen S&W revolvers now call our place "home". The ONE less-than-satisfactory Smith roundgun I've owned was a .22/.32 Kit Gun, and it wasn't the gun's fault...I just couldn't shoot that little beast! The single mechanical failure I've had was a broken firing pin ("hammer nose") on a 6" Model 19 many years ago. Also, I bought a used/excellent 6" K38 even though it had a "push-off" condition, wherein the hammer could be pushed from behind when cocked and it would fall. A quick trip to Springfield Mass., and it was fixed without charge and the wide trigger replaced with a narrow smooth one at my request, also free.

Felix's criteria for "keeper" revolvers are obviously much higher than mine, because I wouldn't dispose of any of our current crop for lack of quality. All of them will fire many rounds of my cast boolits without leading, and all of them are capable of far better accuracy than I can manage these days. I'll admit that many of the present-day offerings leave me cold, but that's largely a matter of taste because I dote on the wonderful blue revolvers of times past. Another half-dozen or so, and I MIGHT have "enough". Where have I heard THAT before...???

[felix]

Bruce, I perfectly agree about the Smith autos. I have not used one of the bullseye models that would not shoot as intended, right out of the box. ... felix

[fecmech]

[ The ONE less-than-satisfactory Smith roundgun I've owned was a .22/.32 Kit Gun, and it wasn't the gun's fault...I just couldn't shoot that little beast! QUOTE]

Bruce--That may not have been your fault. I too have had a "Kit " gun that I was not able to shoot very well over the past 30 years. I glued a weaver rib to it and mounted a dot site on it to settle things once and for all. It turned out to be a 2 1/2-3" 25 yd gun with all kinds of 22 ammo including 4 brands of expensive "match " ammo. I sent the gun back to S&W to see what they could do. Three different guys there said factory specs for that gun are 3" or less at 25yds and that was all they would guarantee. The repairman corrected some endshake, turned the barrel in and recut the forcing cone and sent it back. I glued the rib back on and while it's better now (about 1 1/2" at 25 yds) it is not what I would call an accurate .22 pistol.

[9.3X62AL]

I can't shoot ANY J-frame or older I-frame Smith & Wesson worth beans. They are just too small, regardless of aftermarket grip I try. Colt Police Positive/Detective Special D-frames work very well for me, but the S&W small frames don't like me.

[Dale53]

Deputy Al;
The J frames are a bit tiny for me, also. I have a 631 in .32 H&R Mag and it is quite a bit harder to shoot (simply because it is so light) than my 16-4 but I admit that I have shot some decent scores with it. Have also got a bunny or two...

My Stainless Chief .38 Special, 3" with full underlugged barrel and adjustable sights, however shoots extremely well and seems to do so practically by itself. Apparently, the underlug adds weight right where it is needed (out front) and it is probably the best "Trail Gun" a feller could have.

When I have shotgunned for Grouse, occasionally, I have broken a wing on a difficult shot. The dern little buggers will run on the ground just enough to keep you from catching them until they dive in a nearly unpenetrable thicket. However, they'll let you get pretty close. Close enough to clip their heads off with a handgun. That is where a little, light, revolver with good sights (one you can shoot well) really pays off. I HATE to have to shoot a bird twice with the shotgun - can be messy.

Dale53

[9.3X62AL]

I hear ya, Dale. I bought a M-34 x 4" for exactly the purpose you state--finishing game birds without the mess a shot pattern can create. It did well enough for that sort of close work, but at distance it was a waste of time. After a few years of trying lots of ammo makes, I threw in the towel and sold it. The SIG-Sauer Mosquito is serving well in that venue now.

[BruceB]

Yeah....the last straw for my Kit Gun was a sharptail grouse which "treed" and on which I proceeded to miss head shots TWELVE times from not more than twenty FEET, including some rounds fired from a standing rest against a nearby spruce.

At that point I gave up, wished Mr. Feathers a good day, and gloomed off into the bush. Trouble is, I now still have this yen for a M18 (K-frame) .22 in spite of the fact that I do very little .22 shooting nowadays.

[Sven Dufva]

I have 3 S&W, 617, 686-5 and 629-4 all is working marbelus. 686 is the gun I use mostly. After aprox 8000 rounds it work with no problem and accurucy is like when it come from box. I have a freind who have a master pise in 38 spl who is still using the gun in competision after 25 years. He practise abaut 2000-3000 rounds a year.
Other members in the club using a cheper copy from Brazil they have a lot of problems with trigger pull etc.
My 686 is a modell whit no fluted drum, it caled practical champion. I have not seen that model in S&W home page. Mabe it is not fore sales in USA?

[Poygan]

I bought my wife a 34-2 about ten years ago. It isn't used very much but I've been quite pleased with its accuracy (4"bbl). I have a 17 with a 6"bbl to compare it to and the 34 gives up nothing to it.

[9.3X62AL]

Poygan--

You REALLY got a good one......or you meld with it a lot better than I did. I have an older 6-shot Model 617 x 6", and it is a delight. Probably the nicest 22 LR wheelguns I've ever fired were Colts, though--an Officer's Model Match that I STUPIDLY sold some years ago, and a friend's Diamondback x 6". Live and learn.

[Char-Gar]

Deputy Al... I am with you on those J frames being unshootable..but only the round butt versions. The older square butt versions add just enought extra distance between the trigger finger and the back of the grip frame to make these things shootable.

I have searched out and bought several SB all steel Chief's Specials. My wife has a 2 incher and I have a three.

The Colt "D" frames have always been just enought bigger than the Smith "J" frames to be much more user friends. My 3" Colt Detective Special shoots like a bigger 4" service pistol. The "Dick Special" is the best darned small 38 ever made.

[Poygan]

Deputy Al,

Possibly the difference is that I have smaller hands and the 34 does fit me well. I in turn struggle with larger grips. I must admit I was surprised how well this little unit shoots.