How to Clean Up a Barrel

[smokemjoe]

Gentlemen: I got a 41 Swiss I converted to C.F., The barrel was dark when I got it. I soaked it for 4 weeks between cleaning with a 12 ga. steel brush, Its still very bad looking, Did shoot to today and didnt clean out anymore. It looks bad. Seems to lead, What can be done now to make it better. Thanks- Smokemjoe

[KCSO]

This is my last resort for really bad barrels and demands careful use!!!!

Get some muratic acid and carefully mix it 50-50 with water, if you have never mixed acid get help. Then plug the bore with a cork and fill the bore with the solution and let it sit no more than 10 minutes. This will take everything and may lightly etch the metal. Repeat if the rust is still showing, but if this is the case you are probably not talking about a shooter. Once the bore is clean take a tight patch and load it with bore paste and work it for 50 to 100 strokes. If it won't shoot then it won't shoot.

[KCSO]

I suppose I should include the standard warnings, rubber gloves safety glasses, rubber apron ect. And when you empty out the solution don't breath the fumes, or do if you need to clean the tar out of your lungs.

[Willbird]

I was thinking today for some reason "always add acid"...that means if your making a solution, add the acid to the water not vicey versa.......

Bill

[dragonrider]

"I was thinking today for some reason "always add acid"...that means if your making a solution, add the acid to the water not vicey versa......."

VERY IMPORTANT

[35remington]

"Do like you oughta, add acid to wattuh."

Old lab chemist's saying.

[smokemjoe]

So far thanks 35 Rem. Thats the way the bore looks now,etched, If I dont have anyothers say what to do I will try the acid. Thanks for thr help, Smokemjoe, Have you shot up all that brass yet?

[jcadwell]

You could try an electrolytic bore cleaner like the Foul-Out... More expensive, but less hard on the bore.

[Bent Ramrod]

You could also try a wad of 000 steel wool on an old bore brush. Load it up with WD-40 and have at it. Every now and again, run a patch through to collect the loosened grunge and then go back to the steel wool. Alternate until no red rust shows.

Is there any rifling left? My 6mm Lee Navy's lands and grooves are half-obliterated by the pitting and erosion, but it still shoots into 4" at 100 yards. Never give up!:-D

[jcadwell]

I'd try Chore Boy copper scrub pads from the grocery store before steel wool. The Chore Boy's are all copper...

[Carteach0]

I've got a whole $2 tied up in my Electronic Bore Cleaner rig. It's less expensive than decent copper solvent. Read up on SurplusRifle.com for directions on how to make
them.

[mosin9130]

Smokemjoe,
if you try to clean the barrel with acid, remember next to wash the bore with a lot of wather; better again if, after washed and washed again, you cork the bottom of the bore and fill it with household ammonia, let stand for a dozen of minutes and wash it again.
The ammonia is basic and neutralize every remaining acid.

Before use acid, I suggest to you to try with a homemade Foul Out (as I did, with great results).
Here you can find the projects of it:

www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm#Copper
www.frfrogspad.com/copclean.pdf
http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/copperout/pdf/makingthesurplus2.pdf

[Four Fingers of Death]

I was thinking today for some reason "always add acid"...that means if your making a solution, add the acid to the water not vicey versa.......

Bill


Pour the acid carefully down a stick which is in the water, held at 45 degrees.

[gzig5]

The mentioned methods should get all the junk out (I cringe at the thought of pouring acid down the bore), but aren't going to help stop it from happening again. You are going to want smooth it up mechanically, (steel wool, Rem Clean, JB Borepaste, whatever..) as much as you can and then give it a firelapping treatment. Midway has the kits. Do Not re-use the firelapping brass when you are done. What do you have to lose?

I don't know if these barrels have enough meat to re-line. Luckily my 1881 that I converted to CF looks like the day it left the armory. Shoots good too. Good luck.

[kywoodwrkr]

Use carteach0's process.
Piece of piano wire with electrical tape wrapped around about every 4-5 inches to keep the rod from touching the barrel as one of the 'nodes'.
Can't remeber if anode or cathode! :-|
Sodium carbonate is hardest item to find. (+ water)
That happens to be a pool supply(IE PH PLUS) as well as a washing soda(not baking soda!) About $5-6/lb.
Instructions are all over the WWW.
Battery charger is power supply.
This is useful on many rusted items.
You'll need something long enough to submerge the action in while doing this.
Plastic liner in long cardboard box(gun shipping box?) with onw wide side cut out.
Once you find the instructions you'll have all kinds of ideas on how to do this.
For what's it worth I have two or three Swiss Vetterllis just like yours!
Bore all rusty!
Good luck.
DaveP kywoodwrkr

[Ricochet]

Baking soda will work, but there's less current flow initially than with washing soda. Other things that will work for electrolytic cleaning of rusty steel are lye (which is very hazardous to handle, be careful), trisodium phosphate, and "TSP Phosphate Free," which is sodium silicate.

The steel you are cleaning MUST be the cathode. That is, it's got to be hooked to the negative lead of your direct current source. The anode is sacrificial.

Here's one of many pages on the electrolysis process: http://www.holzwerken.de/museum/links/electrolysis_explanation.phtml

BTW, as my friend Rob Skinner discusses in the page below, reverse electrolysis can be used to rapidly corrode iron or steel to produce an "antique patina":
http://engines.rustyiron.com/electrolysis/index.html

[felix]

From an coolants article in
Manufacturing Engineering
July 2006 Vol. 137 No. 1

"Phase transformations are often responsible for tensile residual
stresses, white layer formation, reduced fatigue life, and
surface and subsurface cracking."

This is something I did not realize, the phase transformation idea.
It occurs when the barrel gets hot enough to cross an alloy boundary
layer as described by the heat-treatment curves in the literature.

Keep this in mind when inspecting a barrel, especially a military one
exposed to high nitroglycerin powders prevalent back in the early
1900s.

... felix

[Ricochet]

That's how that cracked, dry lake bed appearance in rifle throats often reported by users of borescopes comes about. Rapid heating of a thin surface layer by the white hot powder gases causing compression with expansion and buckling, then shrinking as it transfers the heat to the outer layers of the barrel. Maybe combined with some carbide and nitride formation from the powder gases. Those compounds are very brittle and melt at lower temperatures than metallic iron.

[HangFireW8]

This is my last resort for really bad barrels and demands careful use!!!!

Get some muratic acid and carefully mix it 50-50 with water, if you have never mixed acid get help. Then plug the bore with a cork and fill the bore with the solution and let it sit no more than 10 minutes. This will take everything and may lightly etch the metal. Repeat if the rust is still showing, but if this is the case you are probably not talking about a shooter. Once the bore is clean take a tight patch and load it with bore paste and work it for 50 to 100 strokes. If it won't shoot then it won't shoot.

You can get the same result safer with a mix of table salt and strong vinegar. The result is the same acid in solution (Muriatic or HCl) buffered by acetate and sodium. This is an old Machinist's trick.

You won't have as strong a molarity as possible mixing in concrete etcher, so you can soak it for a few hours and not worry about it as much. The result may have an etched or matte appearance. Any pitting will still remain, but properly done, will be clean of rust down to the bottom of the pits.

As with most jobs, prep determines the quality of the job. Remove all surface or scale rust and get rid of all the copper and/or lead fouling in the bore and thoroughly de-oil with a solvent first.

Whatever you do with an etching bath, do not allow any part of the metal to protrude above the water line, and shake out any air bubbles you see.

The problem with quicky strong acid baths, the air bubbles don't have time to dissolve out of the pits.

After that, you may consider melting a lead lap in the end of the barrel on the end of a cleaning rod running through the barrel. Stick it out only far enough to coat most of it with lapping compound, and then have at it, trying to keep the rod as straight as possible in the bore, and don't let the lead lap fall out of the end or you'll have to cast a new one.

That will result in a larger bore, possibly one free of pits. Then slug your bore and found out just how big it is. If oversized, you can shoot unsized bullets, or bump them up or even beagle your dies, as you need.

-HF

[725]

Chore Boy and elbow grease.

Plug the muzzle, stand the gun on the muzzle, fill with janitorial strength ammonia. Wire brush after a time and oil.

Fire lap. Progressively finer grits.

Do 'em all and progress will be made.

[dubber123]

If you are nervous about the chemicals, I'd go straight to firelapping. I just did an old S&W 32-20 revolver with a rough bore. You could feel a definate constriction at the leade, and it was pretty dark.

After firelapping, no restriction, and a reasonably shiny bore. Virtually all leading disappeared too. I used common 320 grit valve lapping compound. Just remember to shoot them as slow (low velocity) as possible, and clean the bbl. every 5 rounds or so. Good luck.

[Beekeeper]

I have done a number of barrels on old 71/84's ,GEW 88's and other basket cases.
I highly recommend the electronic bore cleaner.
It is easy to use and if used long enough will get a barrel as clean as it is going to get.
Just be prepared for all the gunk that will come out of what you thought was a clean barrel and conyinue using it until the barrel is clean.
Check the surplusrifle.com website as they have several posts on using one with good data and pics of the gunk


beekeeper

[jimkim]

You can try brake fluid. Swab the bore and let it sit overnight. You can follow this by polishing the bore with Bon Ami. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=36031

[johnly]

You can get the same result safer with a mix of table salt and strong vinegar. The result is the same acid in solution (Muriatic or HCl) buffered by acetate and sodium. This is an old Machinist's trick.

-HF

I have to put my chemist hat on for a second.....

Only "weak" acids and bases can be buffered in the classical sense. "Strong" acid and bases with dissociation constants of one, like nitric acid, sulfuric acid, hydrochloric acid, sodium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide can't be buffered as the addition of additional cations will not drive the equilibrium back into the non-reactive form. You can buffer weak acids and bases like acetic acid, phosphoric acid, and ammonium hydroxide.

I think "Naval Jelly" is based on phosphoric acid and if I were going to attempt etching the barrel, I'd give something like this a try first. The other classic, and dangerous method of lead removal is the use of mercury metal. Mercury will form an amalgam with lead and dissolve it, but at the same time mercury won't form amalgams with iron or platinum.

John