Question on shotshell loading

[Jeffery8mm]

I recently bought my daughter [9] a H&R 410. I am trying to reload her some light loads using 444 brass. [reforming 303 was a nightmare] The Hornady 444 brass is not doing to good as it 'slips' past the ejector. Mayhaps the rim is not large enough on the Hornady brass??
Anyhow, here is my real question.....
Got to thinking during all this fireforming/research
What would happen if I loaded shot in a 45-70 case and shot it in a NEF 45-70. It being a rifled barrel, would it be a BAD idea??
Thanks
Jeff

[Mk42gunner]

You will get a donut shaped pattern. I tried it once when I had a Marlin 1895.

Robert

[bigdog454]

Midway sells 410 brass hulls.

[frkelly74]

would 45 colt brass work? I saw some shotshells made up using a gas check over the powder and another gas check over the shot . I don't remember where though.


I have about half a flat rate box of 410 hulls you could have cheap if you need them.

[Jeffery8mm]

Midway sells 410 brass hulls.

Prolly some good avice there!!!!!! Save a headache or two for sure
JEff

[peerlesscowboy]

You will get a donut shaped pattern. I tried it once when I had a Marlin 1895.

RobertYup....with the donut shaped pattern, I've tried to too.

John C. Saubak

[peerlesscowboy]

Why not just use .410 shotshell hulls??

[JIMinPHX]

Winchester HS .410 hulls last a long time. I'd just get a box or two of those & load them back up as you need to.

[Mk42gunner]

One thing about reloading .410 shells for an H&R, the shells need to be resized. I had an H&R .410 when I was a kid, along with a Lee loader. The reloaded shells would not eject (ever), and would extract only about 50% of the time.

Robert

On edit: this was with 3" shells (Win, Rem, Fed) I never shot any 2 1/2" shells back then.

[geargnasher]

How about getting a cheap Lee .410 shotshell setup and making some mild .410 rounds for her to shoot? There are lots of options, but dies for the brass hulls are expensive and, from what I hear, are usually necessary with smokeless powder.

Gear

[JIMinPHX]

How about getting a cheap Lee .410 shotshell setup ...

I haven't seen one of those go for cheap in a long time.

[Echo]

I haven't seen one of those go for cheap in a long time.

Lee Loaders in .410 go for about $90 on eBay...

[Jeffery8mm]

Thanks for all the info so far guys!! There is alot to be learned about shotshell reloading for me. I wonder about the possibilty of reloading a plastic regular 410 shell without a "tool" to do this with and just using a over shot card intstead of the "roll" crimp?? I also wonder from time to time why in the heck I am willing to spend 50 bucks to save 10:groner: That is why we reload, right??:-P
Jeff

[peerlesscowboy]

One thing about reloading .410 shells for an H&R, the shells need to be resized. I had an H&R .410 when I was a kid, along with a Lee loader. The reloaded shells would not eject (ever), and would extract only about 50% of the time.

Robert

On edit: this was with 3" shells (Win, Rem, Fed) I never shot any 2 1/2" shells back then.
I had one of those in 20ga, prob'ly still around here someplace.......didn't work very good. If you're gonna' shoot enuf' shotgun shells that you decide to reload the hulls get a MEC.

John C. Saubak

[lylejb]

Jeff,

What does the rim on your brass measure? I'm using Rem .444 marlin brass to load for a Rossi 410 single, and haven't had any slip past yet. Mine measure .509

I went through the same thoughts / process as you trying to decide what to do when I got my son his 410.

The problem with trying to load 410 plastic hulls without a press is the crimp. I could never get a crimp that wasn't a mess.

The problem with magtech 410 brass is the wall thickness. It's not the same as plastic hulls, and the usual 410 plastic wads are undersize. Circlefly wads recommended a .430 over powder card wad and a .450 overshot card. I also didn't like magtech's $1 / case price tag.

With the 444 brass, the 410 plastic wads are still undersize, but not as much. I'm using them, and just make sure I seat them firmly.

I'm also having good results with flake powder (blue dot) and had poor results with ball powder (w296).

So far, I haven't needed to resize. In fact It's taking about 3 firings to fully fire form the cases.

[JIMinPHX]

I fooled around with hand tools for .410 shells for a while. My exploits can be found here - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=20002&page=2

The early version starts around post # 17. Something a little more workable can be seen in post #39. Version 4, which is usable on either 2.5" or 3" shells is shown in post #60 at the bottom of page 3 & after that.

I had originally made these with the intention of selling them, but after I found out that Lee had stopped making all of the shotgun hand reloaders, I wondered why. Lee would not give me a reason. In using one of those things, you put your hand over the top of something that looks an awful lot like a loaded shell in a gun barrel & then push down. That kind of gave me pause, especially after I saw the condition of some shot shell primers. Some of the ones I got from Winchester had cups that protruded past the seating collar. I ended up sending the payments back to anyone that ever bought one from me & labeled them recalled by the factory for safety concerns.

The original Lee loaders worked OK for paper shotshells, but they weren't very good at crimping plastic shells, even after you went out & bought a separate crimp starter.

My version produced good crimps, but I never got around the safety concern. I recently sent my drawings to another board member who is working on making up a version that will screw into a standard 7/8-14 threaded metallic cartridge reloading press. Hopefully, that will come out soon. Keep an eye on the vendor sponsor section of the board for news on that option.

[JIMinPHX]

I also wonder from time to time why in the heck I am willing to spend 50 bucks to save 10:groner: That is why we reload, right??:-P
Jeff

$10? That's just 1 box of 25 2.5" shells at Walmart. The 3" shells are more like $15. The cost of .410 ammo is silly high. It's certainly not because of the amount of shot or powder that gets used. .410 is one of the most economical sizes to reload that I can think of. Your savings will come back to you quickly in that caliber. If Lee would make their Load All II in that caliber, you could have your money back after loading just 5 boxes. I wrote Lee over 2 years ago, asking them to please make the Load All in .410. I never got a response. That's when I started making my own hand tools.

[Mk42gunner]

Lee Loaders in .410 go for about $90 on eBay...


When I saw the prices these were going for, I went looking for my old one. I would have sold it for a lot less than $90.00. I couldn't find the $#@# thing. Oh well.


I had one of those in 20ga, prob'ly still around here someplace.......didn't work very good. If you're gonna' shoot enuf' shotgun shells that you decide to reload the hulls get a MEC.

John C. Saubak

I did find the 20 Ga one, they aren't bringing nearly the outrageous amounts the .410's are. The ugly crimps got me to use one of the barrels for my 870 as a shell gage.

[jmsj]

"If Lee would make their Load All II in that caliber, you could have your money back after loading just 5 boxes. I wrote Lee about 2 years ago, asking them to please make the Load All in .410. I never got a response. That's when I started making my own hand tools." (JIMinPHX)

Jim I contacted Lee about Making their Load All II in .410 also about 4 months ago. I too got no reply from them, in fact I have tried to contact them 3 times on various issues and have never gotten a reply. This makes no sense to me, reloading the .410 is one of the most cost effective shotshells to reload. I hope that many others have contacted them and they make one (probably not). jmsj

[Mk42gunner]

There is a post by Woody, I think, that tells how he crimps W-W 2 1/2" .410 shells by using a .308 Win seating die. I believe it is in the thread that JIMinPHX linked to.

If I were going to reload very many .410 shells: I would invest in one of the cheaper MEC units. It wouldn't take very many boxes to pay for itself, even with todays inflated shot prices.

Do the new H&R/ NEF guns have mechanical primary extraction? That was my biggest problem with the ones in the 1970's. If the shell stuck in the chamber, you would be hunting a long skinny stick, instead of reloading.

One other thing that I have been thinking about: I would rather have the correct cases for use by beginners. We do not want people to get the idea that they can use just any case that fits into the chamber, I can see that leading to problems down the road.

Robert

[Skipper488]

I bought my oldest son a .410 shotgun. I realized the error of that real quick. The second son got a 20 Gauge.:bigsmyl2:

[Harter66]

Try Balistic Products they have roll crimping tools.

I've a cheap 45/410 single shot pistol I size the brass with a carbide colt die and a shell holder for 303 brit. The primers are removed/replaced by hand with 2 punches and wood block. I've used 303 cases I expect 460 S&W cases would due also.