Newbie hello and questions.

[Cyrus]

Hello. I found this wonderful site a few months back and finally made the plunge. I love older-style firearms and cast boolits. Single action revolvers, single shot and lever rifles, Elmer, Skeeter, John Taffin, Brian Pierce, etc. I lurk over at sixgunner.com, leverguns.com and a few others. I know LAH and had the pleasure of spending a day with this wonderful gentleman a few years back at a shooting get-together in Pennsylvania. My primary, burning question regards how to ID bad wheelweights BEFORE they go into the pot. I know to keep the melt temp around 600-650(?) to avoid melting zinc. What about these scratch tests, bend tests, etc.? What do the bad ones bend, scratch, look and sound like? Any info would be greatly appreciated! And yes, I am hopelessly addicted to casting my own some day, but for now just ingots for a rainy day. Thanks!

[454PB]

Welcome to the board, Cyrus. I'm with you on your stated preferences in guns and authors.

I've never encountered a zinc wheelweight, so I can't help you much. I acquired enough lead years ago to last me the rest of my life, and apparently zinc wheelweights are a fairly recent phenomenon. From what others have posted, the temperature control is the best way to avoid them.

[Buckshot]

...............Cyrus, glad you took the plunge and welcome amongst the crew. Looking for zinc WW's is maybe something that will become more and more important as time goes on. It doesn't take much to spoil a how bunch of innocent WW alloy.

I hate the idea of just picking through a bucket of dirty WW's. Especially when you have a big cast iron pot over a roaring propane burner trying to civilize all your wild alloy into ingots. Zinc ones will tend more to a grayish-silver, will be impossible to scratch with a thumbnail, are sometimes painted, and will be very brittle.

I'd just dump a bunch out on a flat surface and paw through them, tossing any questionable ones aside, in addiiton to cigarette butts, valve stems, and other flotsam and jetsam. Once done, tip it off into the pot and pour out another bunch to look through.

................Buckshot

[BruceB]

Howdy, Cyrus, and welcome to the nuthouse....

From that listing of your tastes, I'm absolutely certain that you'll fit in seamlessly with this group of individualists (to mix a metaphor).

"Wheelweights" is always a prime topic of conversation, and you'll find hundreds of references if you use our "search" function in the toolbar at the top of each page.

For the moment, I'll say this:

I have, on occasion, sorted through a bucket of wheelweights (hereafter called "WW") and carefully removed everything that looked, odd, or different, or painted, or plated, or the segmented soft stick-on stuff used on mag wheels, I then smelted-down the "good" ones separately from the "rejects", and made fine ingots. One day, after going through this routine, I decided to smelt the rejects as well, and see what sort of casting could be done with them.

Long story short, the reject weights cast boolits just as good as the "good" ones did, and there was no statistical difference for weight, diameter, or anything else I could measure.

I generally spread out a pail of used weights for a quick look-see before putting them in the pot, but I only remove extraneous junk....valve stems, Skoal cans, lug nuts etc. I do set aside the softer segmented stick-ons for use in occasional applications.

I smelt in a propane-fired 80-pound-capacity pot with no temperature control, so as each batch melts, I stir it occasionally ....it will suddenly go to ALL liquid under the surface scrap, and at that point I scoop out everything that's floating.

There's a large difference between the melting points of lead and zinc, and by removing all the "other" stuff as soon as the lead alloy has melted, I have yet to encounter a zinc-contamination problem. Once the floaters are gone, I flux with clean motor oil and/or a wooden dowel (the dowel is a recent valuable addition, thanks to this Board).

This is a long way of saying, "Let the melt determine what's in the pot!" Simply be sure to remove everything that floats, just as soon as the WW turn liquid. Slotted spoons (all-metal, if possible) make excellent scoopers. I remove the steel clips with a large magnet, which is then wiped with a heavily-gloved hand. This makes getting the remaining crud out quite easy.

Again, welcome!

[Bass Ackward]

Welcome Cyrus.

As Bruce said, there is a difference in the melting points of zinc and lead. No matter how hot your flame, when you add WW, it is going to cool the mix and take time to begin melting again.

And another key point here. Stuff melts from the bottom up!

If you add too many WW at one time, you can't see the floaters should they be there, that's when you get into trouble.

Patience, patience, patience.

[Cyrus]

Thank you all the the warm welcome and great advice! So, if I keep good ones (Micro?) together, and keep the funny looking ones off to the side, keep the melt around 600-650, don't put too many in at once to accidentally bury zinc that then can't float, I should be ok? With the painted ones that might be good, if I scratch them and they look nice and shiny under the paint, can they be zinc or does zinc look completely different when scratched? I can dent good wheel weights with a whack of the back of a butter knife, can zinc be dented as well? Sorry for all the questions but I'm obsessed with getting as many useful ones as possible.

[No_1]

Yep! Your addicted but don't reaize it yet....
A couple of things to keep in mind. If your pot is totally full you may not realize the lead is melted because all the junk on the top hides the shiny molten lead. Also, the crayons your kids get at the restraunt are good for flux too. If you don't have any kids, ask the waitress for some. They usually come in cute little 4 packs about the size of the old sample cigarette packs.

Good Luck,

Robert


Sorry for all the questions but I'm obsessed with getting as many useful ones as possible.

[klausg]

cyrus- so far the only zinc WW I've come across up here in Alaska have been very easy to identify, at least the 'clip-on' variety. All have been riveted to the clip. I have gotten some 'stick-on' that I suspect were zinc. My rule on the 'stick-on' variety is if I can't bend it easily w/my hand, I pitch it. As has been stated previously, as long as you don't get your melt too hot, they all float to the surface, if they can. Welcome aboard.

-Klaus

[NVcurmudgeon]

Cyrus, welcome to our madness. I believe that a lot of the floating, riveted clip, unscratchable, non-melting WW that are identified as zinc are actually steel or iron. Leastways all but one of the suspects from over 1000 lb. of WW smelted here turned out to be attracted to a magnet. As others have said, I set aside the tape-on weights for separate melting. They are pure lead, good for muzzle loaders or for making bore measuring slugs. Then I sort through the rest of the WW and cull out anything that looks funny. This amounts to a handful from a five gallon bucket. About half of them will prove to be magnetic. Occasonally an all plastic weight will turn up, (two from over 1000 lb.) these will rat themselves out by being extremely light. The few remaining are melted separately and turn out to be odd looking lead alloy wheelweights. i know there are zinc weights around, but the few precautions listed abouve will keep casters out of trouble.

[1Shirt]

Cyrus, Welcome! What everyone has responded represents words of wisdom based on their experiance, and all of the recommendations are good. I would add to their statements the recommendation to find someone in your local area who is an experianced caster and talk with him/them and sit through a casting session with him/them. I would also spend a lot of time reading all the threads relating to zinc/wheelweights, etc. Good luck!
1Shirt!:coffee:

[kodiak1]

Cyrus Greetings from Western Canada.
Post, Read and Learn. This is a great sight with a lot of knowledgable people.
Ken.

[Wayne Smith]

Welcome, Cyrus. One observation, you don't tell us where you are, so no one of us can volunteer to have you come over and watch!

I melt my ww in the 20 lb pot on the Coleman, pull off the floating junk and have had a couple weights come off with that junk. When I'm doing this I keep it under 700 degrees, not a problem with my setup. I can see how the guys melting 80lbs at a time might have a problem, though.

[Mel-4857]

Welcome aboard Cyrus from the East Coast of Canada. These are great people. I've so much since I joined. Mel

[LAH]

Welcome to the board Cyrus. Watch these guys...........Creeker.

[Cyrus]

and howdy Creeker!

I'm from the People's Republik of New Jersey. :( I'm not exactly thrilled with that, but at least I live in rural, beautiful Sussex County in the northwestern part of the state. I'm surrounded by farms and mountains(hills to you Westerners), and more right-minded folks than not, I believe. I'm making ingots right now for that rainy day when the enviros and political geniuses tell us that cast bullets are bad for everyone and everything. I love making ingots and I'll probably start casting boolits in the next year or so, but I anticipate using commercial cast for most of my shooting for a while yet. You folks are great and I'm looking forward to the comradery and advice.

[bmblong]

Hello. I was smelting wheelweights the other day. I was finishing up and wanted to do an experiment. I took a lead wheelweight about 1 1/2 inches long into the pot which had about 1/2 inch of molten lead in the bottom. It melted away in about 5 seconds. I took a zinc wheelweight and threw it in and waited about ten seconds. I even stirred it around abit and after about 30 or so seconds it hadn't even come close to melting. The temperature of my melt was 650degrees or so. Zinc wheelweights are hard too. Once you see one you really can't miss them. Maybe that will help you.

[Cyrus]

That does help. Thanks!

[9.3X62AL]

Another WELCOME ABOARD here. You sure live in a gorgeous part of the country, I saw it first-hand some years back in autumn......utterly glorious.

[Cherokee]

Cyrus - Welcome, great place here.

[Four Fingers of Death]

G'day dude, welcome. Mick.

[Bigjohn]

Cyrus,

Welcome to the board.

This is the ONLY World Wide Therapy Group for our form of Illness; it convenes 24/7 and if you tell us your problems we will tell you ours and maybe throw in a few solutions as well.

Catch you around on the board somewhere.

John.

[mag_01]

Welcome aboard Cyrus ---lot of good info. here and good people-----Mag

[Cyrus]

Thank you all for your warm welcome!