First post and a question

[BrassFever]

Hi guys, my name is Mark and I have taken the plunge into the world of cast boolits. I've been lurking here for about a year now, slowly aquiring the tools and supplies to start casting. To make a long story short, I finally scored some lead, $5for a 5 gal bucket full of WW. Got this from a local service station that was going out of business here in town. I've been reloading for about 3 years now, for my .270 AI mauser and my .357 ruger security six. I'm looking forward to learning from you more experienced guys. Actually, I found out about this forum from a member I met one day last year while out in the hills of Ellensburg doing some shooting. I know his name is Ray but I dont know his user name.

Anyway, enough small talk, on to my CB question. I am using an older lyman 358477, pouring with a ladle, out of a SS pot on a coleman stove. My alloy is straight WWs that are air cooled. I finally got around to measuring my boolits, and they average .3625-.364, as dropped. That seemed a little large to me. In addition, some of the boolits are really out of round, measuring .362 and then rotating them 90 degrees and getting a measurement of .364. I think this is because I am having a hard time getting the mold blocks to close tightly. I currently dont have a way to size my bullets, but I will purchase a lee sizer ASAP.

My question is, how oversize is too oversize? To answer your next question, I have not slugged the barrel and throats of my revolver. I was just hoping to load up a few plinking rounds where accuracy is not really important. So, what do you all think? Am I safe to load up some plinking ammo with these boolits? Or is imperative that I size them down, from a safety stand point?

Sorry for the long winded post, just wanted to provide as much relevamt info as possible.

[Dean D.]

Hi Mark, welcome to Cast Boolits from a relative neighbor! Over in Newport myself, just north of Spokane.

Normally most people try to size .001 - .002 over bore/throat size. The only true way for you to know if they are not too large is to at least slug your barrel. That should give you a ball park idea.

Slugging is very easy, get some egg shaped fishing sinkers close to your bore size. Clean your bore thoroughly and oil it and the sinker well. Using a brass rod or good hardwood dowel you can drive the sinker through the bore. Measure the widest part of your slug and you'll have a better idea. Honestly, it will be worth your time. You wont really know what sizer to buy until you slug your bore anyway.

As far as the mould not wanting to close, check for any burrs that might be hanging things up. One tiny burr can really wreak havoc.

Good Luck!

[txbirdman]

Mark,

I'd say you're sitting in a good position with that mould. Get you a lee push through sizer (.358) and it will "round up" those bullets for you. Are you going to pan lube or use alox? The 358477 cam in two configurations ( 158 gr. and 150 gr.) Either will work with your security six just fine. If you're going to try to shoot them as cast, I'd make sure one will chamber before loading a bunch. As long as you stick with light to moderate loads you'll be okay in that security six (it's probably one of the stongest medium frame revolvers).

Good luck

[BrassFever]

I am pan lubing, using a custom darr lube formula that I have tweaked a little. I have loaded cast boolits before, both commericial and some home cast that I purchased. I was looking at midway's selection of Lee sizers and it looks like they only carry a .358. If I slug my bore and throat and find that they are oversize, does lee make a .359 or .360?

I have been seriously considering slugging my bore, but I dont have a vice in my appartment. It seems like I would need a vice to hold my pistol in place while slugging the bore. If thats the case I will just have to wait until I go home next to use my Dad's shop.

Lets say hypothetically I slug my bore and find that it is .357. Would it be dangerous to run these oversize boolits through my gun? Or would it just lead to leading and poor accuracy?

Thanks for your quick responses!

[Maven]

Mark, The mold may not be closing correctly because one or both of the locating pins are protruding too far. Soaking that half in your favorite penetrating oil (on the pins) + a little heat (old hair dryer) + a soft punch will allow you to adjust them until the fit is perfect. Also, as txbirdman indicated, check the holes on the other half [of the mold] for burrs and remove them.

[BrassFever]

A side note to Dean D:

Have you hunted turkey in the Colville area before? I was thinking about heading up that way for the spring turkey season.

[Dean D.]

I've never had to go out to hunt turkeys so far Mark, got 10 toms in my driveway as we speak! They come and go but are usually in the area.

[txbirdman]

Mark,

Why not let the gun tell you what it likes? I'm betting the bore will measure .357 if you're able to get a good measurement on it. If I were you, I'd check to see if your bullets will chamber as cast and then try a light load in your revolver. I don't think leading will be a problem from oversized bullets it's much more likely to occur with undersized hard bullets. If the "as cast" bullets don't shoot well then get the .358 sizer from Lee. If you decide you need something bigger then you can hone it out. I really don't think you'll have much of a problem with your setup.

[sqlbullet]

My question is, how oversize is too oversize?

So big they won't chamber when loaded is too big as a first pass.

The rest will be determined by how they shoot once you get them small enough to chamber.

[BrassFever]

Dean: Sounds like a sweet deal!

Maven: That is good advice, I may try that if I dont find any burrs on the mold

One issue I have is that it appears as though the groove on one side of the barrel is directly across from a land on the other side. This will make it difficult to measure groove diameter. Any suggestions here?

One more question that popped into my head: Since I am pan lubing, and planning on getting lee sizers, should I lube first, then size, or the other way around? And I am not a fan of tumble lubing at all, so I dont want to go that route.

[troy_mclure]

i just slugged a scoped ruger sbh. i just placed the barrel, then frame on a piece of wood and held it with my knees. worked great.

you could also use a couple c-clamps and wood as well to hold the gun.

[BrassFever]

Just loaded up a couple dummy rounds to test chamber fit. First thing I noticed was that it was very difficult to seat the boolits and they shaved lead off the sides of the boolits. The rounds chamber, but they are very snug. Looks like I will be required to size my boolits.

[454PB]

Yes, you've run up against the "too" big boolit. The first thing to do is figure out why your mould casts so big. If the mould halves don't meet, there is a problem that should be corrected, because it will get worse if left alone.

The Lee sizers work fine, and the boolits can be sized before lubing by simply applying some form of lubricant to ease it through the sizer. I smear a little of my normal resizing lubricant on every third boolit.

The Lee sizers are easily opened up a few thousandths using a wood dowel and some emery cloth. Do a search and there are many methods described. I'd suggest you get a .358" and you then have the option to make it larger if desired.

[BrassFever]

Looks like I may have resolved the mold alignment gap issue. It was a combination of a burr in the alignment pin holes and a small amound of lead specs around the base of one alignment pin. Thanks for the tips everyone.

[Maven]

"Just loaded up a couple dummy rounds to test chamber fit. First thing I noticed was that it was very difficult to seat the boolits and they shaved lead off the sides of the boolits. The rounds chamber, but they are very snug. Looks like I will be required to size my boolits."

Mark, Are you using the expander die to flare the case mouths? If so, are you putting enough of a flare/bell (to the depth of the gas check) on them? Btw, the very snug rounds are a good sign, certainly better than the reverse. What you'll need to do is take 6 (or even 12) as cast bullets and push them through each chamber (rear -> front) and then measure them with a micrometer. That reading + .001" will be very close to your final sizing dimension. Btw, a Lee Precision push through .357" sizing die can easily be lapped out to .359" or even .360" if need be. Here are Buckshot's instructions:

How to Hone a Size Die, by Buckshot :

Oft times we find ourselves needing a bit more girth in a bullet to please a particular firearm. And, as sometimes happens the size we need isn't available or we don't want to pay for the custom manufacture of one. You can do this yourself and accomplish very accurate results for just a few cents worth of materials (not counting the size die) and a bit of time.

What you will need:
1) A size die that is as close as possible to what you want
2) A length of steel rod that is close to 3/4 of the diameter of the existing die, and long enough to protrude at least 2" beyond both ends of the die.
3) Wet or dry emery paper of 320, 400, and 600 grit. If you do need to remove more than a couple of thousandths you should also include 220 grit. Actually the 400 will finish the inside well enough, but hitting it with a bit of 600 sure slicks it up.
4) Oil. Most any oil will do.

What you do:
The paper should be cut long enough to extend out either end of the die, almost as long as the steel rod. Wrap your starting coursest grit paper around the steel rod a couple times and apply some oil to the paper. Insert the covered rod through the size die. With just your thumb and a couple fingers on each end of the rod, roll it up and down your thigh (while sitting) applying only mild pressure. The reason for using a rod as large as possible, is to keep from tapering the inside of the die, by having a slender rod bend under pressure.

This will get your pants leg fairly well oiled up, so use old pants. Or you can staple a bit of cloth to a length of wood. Most any surface that the die can turn on is fine. I use a piece of mud flap screwed to a bit of 2x4, and clamp it in the vise, and it's a good working height.

Roll the steel rod occasionally as only a small portion of the paper is in contact with the interior of the die. You should also swap the die end for end every now and then to make sure the metal removal is as even as possible. Remember the throat of the die is tapered to admit the bullet and we're only wanting to open up the actual sizing portion of the die.

When you check your work you don't need to put the die back in the press. Just drill a hole in a board bigger than the bullet and place the die over it. Place a bullet in the die and tap it through. Remember to leave a bit of metal to remove for your polishing down to final size with the finer grit paper. The first time I did this I just took it down to where I wanted it without thinking of the finish. It works, but you do need a bit more effort to get the bullet in and out, and it just isn't the right way to do it!

Your existing plunger will still be fine in the honed out size die, unless you opened it up several thousandths. Even then it may still work fine, but you'll need to pay more attention to the lube consistancy and the amount of pressure you exert on the lube reservoir. {This is for Lyman & RCBS sizing dies, not Lee's.}

[BrassFever]

I am using a lee 38/357 carbide die set, and yes I am using the expander plug. In fact, I had to expand the case mouths so much it took considerable effort just to get the belled case/cast boolit to enter the bullet seating die.

My plan is as follows.
1) Slug throats, as I am unable to slug the bore and get a reading due to the 5 land/5 groove rifling configuration
2)Get the lee sizer in .358 and open it up to a larger diameter if needed.

Hopefully it will shoot my boolits sized to .358 without leading. I have had mixed results with this size in the past. Pretty bad leading with some commercial cast .358 while some home cast boolits sized to this diameter have given me minimal to no leading.

[Maven]

Mark, Is the revolver a Smith & Wesson? If so, I'd try sizing to .357" first and if necessary, lap the [sizing] die out to .358". Btw, my S & W Model 10 likes .358" CB's better than those .001" smaller or .001" larger.

[BrassFever]

Negatory. It is a Ruger Security Six

[mroliver77]

So after fixing the mold what size do the boolits drop? People keep shooting out numbers but you need to know what the "throats" measure. By throats I mean the part of the cylinder closest to the barrel. You can either remove the cyl or be careful and drive a soft, oversize lead slug through a clean chamber mouth and then measure it. I try to load where the boolit fits the throat close enough that a boolit will not fall through but only have a slight amount of resistance and can be pushed through easily with a pencil. Now some boolits do not stick out of the case far enough to fit into the smaller throat section and if loaded round can be inserted into cylinder without force the largest boolit that fits will work well.
Without a sizer one can "jury rig" to get some shooting done. Two pieces of clean flat steel plate or two pieces of very hard oak will work to roll a boolit or a few between them with some force applied it will size the boolits down. If you have a couple jacketed or drill bits or something the right size you can add that between the plates to keep from over sizing.
Most of my .357 work well with .360 boolits so that is my standard size at this time.
Jay

[runfiverun]

mike in peru sizes through the cylinders themselves.
i'd try the mold again and start over.
then worry about a sizer.
my 358 pours out just a shade over 358 with ww's and a smidge of tin.
don't make it complicated till the gun shows you an issue

[missionary5155]

Good morning & WELCOME Mark !
I still have and use my Coleman 2 burner stove when up in Illinois for smalting only but sre have cooked many pots of boolits in the past oin it.
Down here in Peru I use a small 2 burner table top propane stove.
Sizing... In a pinch you can use your revolver cylinder to size down large diameter boolits. I do this for my 44-40 New Service. BUT remove the cylinder or run the risk of bending the crane.
Great to have you about !

[BrassFever]

Yes my new plan is to try the mold again and see what she drops after being able to close propperly. I'm guessing it will be around .360 or so. Anyway, It will be awhile until I am able to do any casting, but when I do, I will be sure to update you all with results.

[mdi]

mike in peru sizes through the cylinders themselves.
i'd try the mold again and start over.
then worry about a sizer.
my 358 pours out just a shade over 358 with ww's and a smidge of tin.
don't make it complicated till the gun shows you an issue

Well said. Many folks overthink boolit casting when starting. I believe in K.I.S.S. and common sense. After all, a mold is nothing but a shaped hole in a couple metal blocks, and the idea is to get lead into the mold and harden to that shape. I got fairly good at that before I tried modifying the mold or playing with alloys, etc. Worked for me...8-)