So you remember Spad's

[Tom-ADC]

This is a A1H, I flew in A1E's great airplane.
http://www.clipwings.com/index.php?command=show_video&video_id=971

[Kraschenbirn]

Yep...ugly ol' sucker but it could could sure lay down some serious hurt. For a couple weeks not long after '68 Tet, we shared a parking ramp at Da Nang with the "Sandys"; the guys who flew close cover for the "Jolly Green Giants" (HH-53 search and rescue birds). Seemed like every one of their pilots had been booted out of somewhere else for...either for flight safety violations or "conduct unbecoming...".

Bill

(Tom, your threads have almost got me ready to open a box or two that have been gathering dust for over almost 40 years. I carried a mini-35mm Canon (half-frame) everywhere and must have a thousand or so pics...mostly Kodacolor slides...sitting on a closet shelf.)

[Boz330]

Outstanding and it is a tail dragger as well. Ain't no sound like a big radial engine.

Bob

[Gun-adian]

Ain't that the truth. Back in September (I think) we were in Bellingham, Washington for our weekly Costco run when an A-1 flew over with a P-51 on his tail. We were on the I-5, just passing the airport. The air around us was rumbling. Awesome sound!!!!

I wanted to pull into the airport to watch them land, but we were short on time that day. Too bad. It would've been a great photo-op.

[Tom-ADC]

I recall being a plane captain back in 63-64 those radial engines had to be started and run at least every three days if they hadn't flown, I was turned qual'd on everything we had but the Spad's were the most fun, you had to be on guard when the engine first started that it wouldn't try to rev up real hard a problem caused by moving the throttle forward when the mixture was moved to off, the map regulator would stick and zoom went the engine until oil pressure came up, one of the reasons the tail was tied down.

Kraschenbirn I know what you mean I shot loads of black and white back then, got the film for free.

[flhroy]

18 years old right out of high school and attending aviation fundamentals school in Millington, TN. My knees were knocking big time as I was directing a Spad on a flight line. That was my first time directing an aircraft and that big @ss prop had my attention. I've had a special place in my heart for the Able Dog ever since.

Go here => http://mofak.com/tins_tales.htm for a few wild stories involving the venerable AD-1

Take Care

[TCLouis]

Kraschenbirn

They were "rejects" from the dignified jet jockey world, but I bet they knew how to get down where the action was and mix it up with problematic enemy ground troops.

I love it when one of the old fighters go by on their way to BNA or MQY, there is NOTHING that sounds like one of the old warbirds.

I forgot where I read it yesterday but there was a good story of a pilot with what training they got shot down in his 51, going to a German airfield, figuring out how to start a Folk wulf and learn to fly is as things came along, he made it back to his base in England.

The story had to be repeated many ties in Clubs over the years

[Frank46]

Send in the sandy's. Flight of the intruder Frank

[casterofboolits]

Didn't a Spad score on a Mig 17?

[Kraschenbirn]

Didn't a Spad score on a Mig 17?

Yep! Don't recall all the details but the SPAD was somewhere north of the DMZ escorting a Jolly Green when a pair of Migs showed up. As the Migs rolled in on their first firing pass, the SPAD driver turned into them...head on...and salvo'd all of his 2.75" air-to-ground rockets (28 or 56 tubes, depending upon his ordanance load-out) into the Mig's flight path. One Mig down with the other departing the area, post haste.

Bill

[Tom-ADC]

Didn't a Spad score on a Mig 17?


Two US Navy Propeller driven A1 Skyraiders shared an aerial kill of a NVAF MiG17 on 20 June 1965. This air action was recently depicted on televison's "dog-fight" series under the caption of "Vietnam Gun Kills." As shown on the TV program, a NVAF MiG17 closed head on into two USN Skyraiders...all three aircraft firing all of their guns. The two A1's were wing tip to wing tip and the MiG17 burst into flames, and flew just between the two oncoming A1's, barely missing either plane. The MiG continued on, impacting into a hillside. Both A1 pilot's recieved a "shared kill."

The only solo aerial victory by an A1 Skyraider was flown by USN Ltjg William T. Patton. He shot down his MiG 17 jet aircraft on 09 October 1966 using his 20mm cannons. Patton entered a cloud, and upon exiting it, he observed the NVAF pilot floating to earth in his parachute. That was enough to confirm his kill, as he didn't actually see the MiG crash nor burn.

Patton's A1, cowling #409, was released as a Radio Controlled flying model in 2008 by Kondor. The model airplane uses a 4-stroke glow fuel powered internal combustion engine, and has a 70 inch wingspan.

[Bad Water Bill]

IIRC one took off from Japan with the wings folded. Reached 150 feet before anyone noticed. He landed safely.

In Korea they dropped everything but THE KITCHEN SINK.You guessed it someone rigged up a sink and they dropped it on the N Koreans.

I watched them land day and night on the USS Randolph. Almost hovered over the deck before they touched down. Memories Memories

[onondaga]

I fly some RC planes and love the S.P.A.D.S. Check out all the free plans at this site. I have flown a few of the novelty and 3D models:

http://spadtothebone.com/freeplans.htm

Gary

[Maven]

I walked around one of those up (in Navy blue paint) at the EAA show in Oshkosh in the mid '90's. It was an impressively large aircraft!

[Bad Water Bill]

Tom Was the E the model that was set up for 5 crew members to play with stuff ??? behind the cockpit?

[Pavogrande]

Thanks for the memories chief - they were just AD's in my time. When I was in CAG19, vf-195 had them and we (vf191) had FJ-3's. We also had a wierd one (vf192 ) called a cutlass.
Fasron had a AD5 - 6placec- which we used for small transport to fallon or knights landing.
My other ride was the R7V while in vr-7 (MATS}. The connie replaced our r5d's and used 4 r3350's though not the same dash numberas the AD.
gb -- ad2 --

[wallenba]

The Sandy, one of the great ones. My dad always said, "real airplanes have round engines and props son".

[wallenba]

The only solo aerial victory by an A1 Skyraider was flown by USN Ltjg William T. Patton. He shot down his MiG 17 jet aircraft on 09 October 1966 using his 20mm cannons. Patton entered a cloud, and upon exiting it, he observed the NVAF pilot floating to earth in his parachute. That was enough to confirm his kill, as he didn't actually see the MiG crash nor burn.

Patton's A1, cowling #409, was released as a Radio Controlled flying model in 2008 by Kondor. The model airplane uses a 4-stroke glow fuel powered internal combustion engine, and has a 70 inch wingspan.

I remember that, somehow I always thought his name was Crosley. I'll have to remember. Patton...Patton...Patton.

[fecmech]

What engine did they have in that, a 3350 or 4360??

[AZ-Stew]

When you wrote "Spad" the first thing that came to mind was this:

http://www.inficad.com/~gstewart/misc_photos/spad.jpg

Never heard one of those aluminum contraptions called a "Spad".

Regards,

Stew

[Pavogrande]

Stew -- that was my first reaction as well! I was all ready to talk eddie rickenbacher, se-5s and neuports :-)
fecmech -- they had 3350s though as I said before I don't remember the dash number or if they were turbo-compounded or not -- a long time ago --
I believe there was only one navy single engine aircraft that used a 4360 but I can no longer recall its name. I do not think there was more than a couple produced. The one I saw was on the ramp in millington tn about 1953 and was non-op. It was quite large though, made the ad look a bit small by comparison.

[fecmech]

Thanks, I missed the mention of the 3350's in your previous post.

[trooperdan]

I love the sound of that engine! I'd forgotten the wings folded on the AD though! It was a welcome sight when you needed a friend on top!

[beagle]

You're really bringing back some memories here. I remember working with those guys over in the edge of Cambodia on the "trail". We'd have a SOG LRP in and they'd get in the stuff and call a FAC and he'd call everyone within hearing and we'd gang bang the bad guys. Fast movers, spads and us helicopter gunship guys. The fastmovers always got first pick because of fuel considerations, then the spads. They'd nape and bomb and we'd be waiting in the wings. Finally, they'd get down to 20mm and make about three passes before they were "Winchester" and then we'd go in and do our thing. By that time, the FAC would have some more players lined up.

I remember them dropping some nape one time so close that I felt the heat in the right door of a UH-1C. Like Jerry Clowers use to say, "one of us has to have some relief".

But, everyone did a good job and the guys on the ground loved it all./beagle

[flhroy]

Pavogrande I was TAD to the CAG 19 LOX crew while deployed on Oriskany with Fitron 191. I'm pretty sure that it was a bit after you were there though as we were flying F-8H's and F-8J's. Not sure what engines they had but Oriskany operated both COD's and Elmer Fud's and they were both a treat when they were doing high power turns on the hanger deck. Flames out of the headers...... :-)

[NoDakJak]

Tom: Were you in VA-126? I was assigned to VA-125 in 1960. I worked on the F9F-8T a bit but my primary job was as Plane Captian on FJ-4B, A4D-1, A4D2, and A4D-2N aircraft. We also had several AD-5 Skyraiders (later redesignated as A1E) to support our training mission by flying people and parts on and off of the carriers. I served on a BINGO crew on San Clemente many times and they always flew me out on the A1E. There is one thing more thrilling then the sound of a 3350 at full power and that is hearing it cough and then the sounds of silence while launching over water on a black, black night. Yow!!! And there I was with a wet cast on my leg!
One version of the Sikorsky F4U Corsair that was built by Firestone had the 4360 engine installed for use as low level interceptors to cointer the Kamikazi's. I believe that they only built five before the wars end. If I remember correctly Cleland Cook flew one in the Thompson Trophy Races in the late fifties.
Neil

[Tazman1602]

Lord Tom I was thinking "Snoopy vs. the Red Baron" when I read the title! Forgot about our A1....

Now I love the old P51D Mustangs, actually got a ride on one as a kid out of Homestead FLA. when I was a kid -- wouldn't the A1 fly circles around the P51? Not many prop planes could that I know of.

I know my buddy's who are bit older than I and ended up in Vietnam always talked highly of them, especially a couple of guys I know who were Rangers. They said the "Sandys" (that's what I *think* they called them..) bailed them out numerous times. One of them was in the Ashau (sp?) Valley for a while and said it was the scariest place he's ever been to this day.

LOVE those old warbirds and they didn't cost a fortune and took a PILOT to fly them. Lets see, ONE F16 Falcon or 40 A1 Skyraiders???? Or Warhogs, or.............

That must have been something to feel the power of those things every day. I still remember when that pilot took off in the P51 and the hair on the back of my young neck standing straight up...must've been 1967 or so.

Art

[Bad Water Bill]

A little off topic BUT the A4D was the only plane the Navy had whos wings did NOT fold. You could pack a whole bunch of them on the hanger deck and still have room left.

How many sparkies remember having to crawl into the right intake duct while the engine was running to adjust the voltage regulator? Been there done that.

[NoDakJak]

The CODs used R-1820s. I was aboard one when we made a deck launch and was amazed that those two prop engines set me back in my seat more than any dragster that I had ever driven.
I was straight out of tech school on Jan first 1958 when I signed into my first sea duty squadron VF-211. At that time they were working up with the new F8U-1 Crusader. Most of our pilots had transitioned from the F7U Cutlass with most of the others coming from the FJ-3 Fury. The early F8U had a problem with the main gear shearing off during deck landings. We lost a couple bird due ot this problem. One almost nailed me as I stepping through a hatch from the Island onto the Flight Deck. All I saw was a red and silver flash as the gear ricochetted off the hatch coaming several inches from my foot. We were the second squadron to deploy to WESTPAC with th F8 and the first to make a successful cruise with it. The first squadron had lost all but three of their aircraft by the time they arrived at Pearl Harbor. We picked up those three, modified the gear and completed the cruise. That was aboard the USS Midway. CVA-41
When we returned in 1959 we traded designations with VF-24 and that caused all kinds of unhappiness when we refused to give up our name of FIGHTING RED CHECKERTAILS. The new VF-211 claimed it as theirs and as far I know both squadrons still use the red checkers. It sure led to a lot of blood and bruises for a year or so. We re-equipped with the new F8U-2 and a few months later re-deployed aboard the Midway. When we returned in 1960 I took my first discharge. Two months later I re-enlisted. I missed the excitement and adventure. Working on the flight deck is constantly listed as one of the worlds ten most hazardous jobs and that classifaction is deserved. I loved that job until I got married. That changed everything. In 1967 I switched to the Air Force.
Neil PS: The early model F8 used the Pratt & Whitney J-57 engine. That was a damned good engine and was around for a long time. The aircraft that I worked on with the J-57 included the F8, F-100D & F, F-101B & RF101, and B-52D & E.








kc-135 and

[David2011]

I say a Skyraider take off from the Longview, TX airport just a few days ago. That's a big airplane for a singe crew prop plane. It's always been one of my favorite prop planes. I worked with a guy years ago that had been on a carrier during Vietnam. He said it was a hoot to watch the Skyraiders power off of the deck without the assistance of a catapult. Their ordnance capacity was about he same as a B-17's short range load at 8,000 lb. The B-17 could carry 3600 lb of bombs on long range missions.

David

[trooperdan]

Seems to me there is still a need for an Able Dog type of aircraft. Low cost, easier to maintain compared to a jet, longer time on station and slow enough to know what is on the ground. Maybe not as glamorous as a jet but darned effective! I think the concept is called a COIN aircraft, Counter-insurgency.
Air Force hasn't generally been real keen on CAS but they scream bloody murder when the army suggested they get a few A-10's for army use, even if just for FAC use!

[Bad Water Bill]

The early F8U had a problem with the main gear shearing off during deck landings. We lost a couple bird due to this problem.

That same problem was what kept the F7U 3 from going on carriers. When the tail hook caught, the nose gear was driven up into the pilots seat or sure gave the maintenance crew a bit of work and the pilots laundry people to use a lot of bleach on the skivvies.:oops:

I have read many times where an AD landed in a clearing to pick up a jet jockey.



Fury, Cutlass, Cougar,A4D 1, A4D 2 and the first cruise of A4Ds to the med.

[Pavogrande]

Flhroy -- yes, I was a few years ahead of you -- vf191 was at moffet in 55-56 when I returned from vr-7 at hickam --
About the cutlass -- in late 56 we were hoisted aboard the yorktown in three days for rapid deployement to lebanon. we zig-zagged for three weeks while the powers that be decided whether we were needed or not -- we were not and ended up in kanaohe mcas for a month. The captain of the yorktown stopped operation of the cutlas as they were scorching the flight deck :-) Those thing must have been really tricky to land. My duty station was at the starboard cat during ops to provide last minute maint or go/no go. ---
I must admit that my navy was the e-1 to e-7 navy and a completely different air group organization from just a few years later.
My son was right seat in a EA-6b during the 1st gulf fracas and I never did figure out the air group organization--
The aircraft that used the 4360 was the martin mauler -- AM -- really a big dude.
Interesting to see all the "old" airdales here, but I think I might have seniority :-)

[Boz330]

Seems to me there is still a need for an Able Dog type of aircraft. Low cost, easier to maintain compared to a jet, longer time on station and slow enough to know what is on the ground. Maybe not as glamorous as a jet but darned effective! I think the concept is called a COIN aircraft, Counter-insurgency.
Air Force hasn't generally been real keen on CAS but they scream bloody murder when the army suggested they get a few A-10's for army use, even if just for FAC use!

The Army has it's helicopters, although some sort of turboprop ground support might be a much cheaper alternative. I have a friend that is on his way to Iraq in Feb. He is an Apache Company Commander. I never realized how big those birds were till I talked to him about them. 18,000lbs empty and with a full load out 22,000lbs. That's not much ordinance when you factor in the fuel load. In the high altitudes of Afghanistan the performance sucks so not a great aircraft there. A big turboprop should be able to carry it's own weight in ordinance which was the upside to the Spads, also less maintenance than the helo or the big radials.

Bob

[Geraldo]

The Army has it's helicopters, although some sort of turboprop ground support might be a much cheaper alternative. I have a friend that is on his way to Iraq in Feb. He is an Apache Company Commander. I never realized how big those birds were till I talked to him about them. 18,000lbs empty and with a full load out 22,000lbs. That's not much ordinance when you factor in the fuel load. In the high altitudes of Afghanistan the performance sucks so not a great aircraft there. A big turboprop should be able to carry it's own weight in ordinance which was the upside to the Spads, also less maintenance than the helo or the big radials.

Bob

It's interesting to read about the inter-service fighting that went on in the early 1960s between the Air Force and Army regarding who could have fixed wing aircraft.

[Tom-ADC]

That made for some great reading just got back from AZ Ion the Colorado river.
Another navy plane the wings didn't fold on was the F8F Bearcat, the Corsair with the 4360 was the Goodyear F2G.
I spent most of my time (21 yrs) in VAW & VRC, started in Nov of 1958.

[Echo]

Stew -- that was my first reaction as well! I was all ready to talk eddie rickenbacher, se-5s and neuports :-)
fecmech -- they had 3350s though as I said before I don't remember the dash number or if they were turbo-compounded or not NOT -- a long time ago --
I believe there was only one navy single engine aircraft that used a 4360 but I can no longer recall its name.

It was the Martin Mauler AM-1 - only 151 procured, and didn't last long, as the redoubtable AD/A1 Skyraider was becoming operational. The Skyraider couldn't carry as much as the Mauler, but was easier to work on and fly - the torque of the 4360 tried to twist the airplane around!

I do not think there was more than a couple produced. The one I saw was on the ramp in millington tn about 1953 and was non-op. It was quite large though, made the ad look a bit small by comparison.

And the Skyraider could be used RIGHT NOW in the sandbox, or mountains!

[Mallard57]

I was at the Reno Air Races in 2010 and there was a vendor there that did aircraft maintenance, they had an A1E engine sitting there with zero hours for sale. I'm not sure what designation the engine was but the story went that depot had zeroed out the time on the engine, they had tranfered the engine to the South Vietnamese, of course the North took over , and somehow the vendor ended up with it the better part of 40 years later. Still with zero hours, I found it interesting(I was an engine troop).
Mallard 57

[Von Dingo]

Thanks for posting that, I've always loved the Spads, even though I was only five when Siagon fell.

[canyon-ghost]

That nine cylinder radial engine had this as a front emblem:

http://www.airplanepatches.com/home/pratt-and-whitney-emblem/

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/pratt-whitney-engine-case-emblem

On the plane, this was a brass stamping painted to color. I remember the old crop dusters sitting in the first light of morning, engines idling, blue fames popping out of the exhaust header.

Ron

[Tom-ADC]

All new P&W engines used to come with those in metal even the jet engines, first thing we did was pop them out and put them on a belt buckle!!

[looseprojectile]

I did a far east cruise on the USS Lexington. Detachment Lima, heavy attack squadron 4 out of Whidbey Island WA. We had A 3Ds. They had two J57s.
the most reliable jet engines ever made.
There was a squadron of Spads aboard that were single seat. VF 214.
Also aboard were some with the big green houses that hauled troops.
I have some Kodachrome slides of those days on the flight deck.
Can't believe it was over fifty years ago. Nineteen year olds were sure given a lot of responsibility in those days.
And yes it was really exciting working on the flight deck. I was a Nuclear weapons technician/aviation ordnance.
If God had meant for cylinders to be inline, Pratt & Whitney would have made them that way.

Life is good

[Boz330]

The Navy had an engine rebuilding facility in Pensacola for the radials. The Beaver that I flew for years came originally with a Navy rebuilt engine on it and that engine was the best one we ever had on it. In the 30 years that I flew that bird we had 6 engine rebuilds and I'm not sure what the Navy did during the rebuild but none of the other rebuilds climbed as good as that one. We even had a 12-1 supercharger put on the last rebuild, instead of the normal 8-1, and it still didn't compare to the first one.

Bob

[Von Dingo]

All new P&W engines used to come with those in metal even the jet engines, first thing we did was pop them out and put them on a belt buckle!!

FWIW, http://www.prattwhitneyproductsfla.com/Category.aspx?cat=7 , from the P&W Rocketdyne Company Store. Really cool.

[BLASTER62]

Here are a couple of photos of Spad,s & A4D,s on the Hornet CVS 12. The AD,s were sub chasers.

[Frank46]

When they used to shoot the dual 5"54 mounts just about everyone wanted one of the empty shell casings. Me and a buddy from the generator room grabbed some asbestos gloves and ear muffs and proceeded to fill up one of the 32 gallon garbage cans. The blast if you were not careful would knock you offa your feet. Still have two 5"54 shell bases that I made into ashtrays. Funny thing about getting the metal manufactrer's name tags off the engine crates. We junkes some old steam driven double acting recrpocating steam pumps and it was a mad scramble to get the bronze data tags off before they went into the dumpster. Frank

[NoDakJak]

I can only remember working on one wood flight deck. Not sure after all these years but believe it ws the Hornet. Those steel flight decks could get pretty slick with oil and grease plus the deposits from stackgas. I was running starter probes once, going from plane with it on the aft port side. As we got the final engine started I pulled the probe and started to step forward when the aircraft directly forward of us accelerated to taxi forward. The exhaust kocked both the Line Chief and myself off our feet and started skidding us down the flight deck. I dropped the starter probe and started scrabbling for a padeye. No luck! Chief Ziese managed to grab one with one hand and grabbed me around the wrist with the other hand as I went skidding past. When he got me stopped the lower half of my body was already over the round down. That was my first close call on the flight deck. Certainly not my last!
I believe that the reasoon that I ended up in Naval Aviation is that I watched the movie
Bridges of Toko Ree: one time too many. Great movie and lots of flight scenes with F9F Panthers and early model ADs. There is also a good scene of Mickey Rooney being High Lines across to a destroyer.
Neil

[Echo]

That nine cylinder radial engine had this as a front emblem:



Sorry to be a pill, but I don't believe P&W ever made a 9-cylinder radial... their 1830 was an 18 cylinder twin-row, as was their 2800. Wright made the 1820 9-cylinder radial.

And the way the 3350 came about is sorta interesting. Wright took cylinders/pistons/& rods (I think) from their 14 cylinder 2600, made 18-cylinder crankcases, and VOILA! A 3350...

They also took half a 2600 and made the 1300 that was used in the USAF version of the T-28.

[Pavogrande]

P&W 9 cylinders --

985 -- 2ea, SN-B, also Stearman "yellow peril" and the grumman goose.

1340 -- SN-J

probably all before your time

[BruceB]

P&W 985 engines also power the Twin Beech (D-18???) and the Dehavilland (Canada) Beaver, both very widely-used aircraft.

The 1340 also powers the Dehavilland (Canada) Otter and the Canadian-built 1930s Noorduyn Norseman, both bush-planes which serve to this day. Bandleader Glen Miller was flying in a Norseman when he went missing during WWII.

[Boz330]

Sorry to be a pill, but I don't believe P&W ever made a 9-cylinder radial... their 1830 was an 18 cylinder twin-row, as was their 2800. Wright made the 1820 9-cylinder radial.

And the way the 3350 came about is sorta interesting. Wright took cylinders/pistons/& rods (I think) from their 14 cylinder 2600, made 18-cylinder crankcases, and VOILA! A 3350...

They also took half a 2600 and made the 1300 that was used in the USAF version of the T-28.

The last time I counted the cylinders on the R-985 P&W on the Beaver that I flew for 30 years it had 9. But I am getting old and that was 3 years ago. I guess I could be wrong, Alzheimer's runs in my family.

Bob

[NWFLYJ]

But the nice thing about a 450 Stearman is you can watch the sunset and climb back up and watch it again, but at 50 gallons per hour in fun mode it eats alot. Mark

[Boz330]

But the nice thing about a 450 Stearman is you can watch the sunset and climb back up and watch it again, but at 50 gallons per hour in fun mode it eats alot. Mark

985s are thirsty but that is nearly what a 1340 will do. I use to run the Beaver at Max Continuous and we were just shy of 35GPH. And that is doing minimum of 2 takeoffs per hour.

Bob