View Full Version : Black powder subs. ??????

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
01-08-2011, 04:08 AM
OK, this has probably been hashed out dozens of times here or on other forums, so if others have already been there I would welcome being pointed the correct direction for the information.

However, I am just tossing the idea around of loading some Black Powder subsitutes (SP!) in my 45/70, with cast boolits of course, but don't recall seeing much written on the subject.

I want to do a bit more testing this Spring/Summer with the goal of shrinking my cast boolit groups, so the thought of trying this alternative powder crossed my mind.

Sorry, don't want to go there with the REAL Black Powder, although I am aware it is a great way to go for some situations.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

01-08-2011, 05:34 AM
Can't help you directly as I tried Pyrodex years ago and just prefered black.

However Paul Mathews in his books How-To's for the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Shooter and Loading for the Black Powder Rifle Cratridge discuss the use of Pyrodex and his loads.

01-08-2011, 08:06 AM
Pyrodex is at least as corrosive as real black powder, and more difficult to ignite. I'm not familiar with all of the substitutes available, but I believe that Hodgdon's 777 is probably among the best for ease of ignition and cleaning.

For my money, real black powder is the way to go; it's easier to ignite than the subs, and no harder to clean. The downside to real BP is the difficulty of finding it, IMHO.

Lloyd Smale
01-08-2011, 08:10 AM
ive tried about all of them in inlines and have settled on 777.

01-08-2011, 08:53 AM
I'm with Loyd. I don't like the mess of BP and pyrodex is a PITA. I'll stick with my Triple seven.

When I first saw the post title, I thought you had a new sandwich!

01-08-2011, 11:40 AM
A man gave me a pound of American Select I think it is called and I tried it in my 45/70. I think it was the most inconsistent powder I have ever tried to use, tried Pyrodex, but BP is better and a lot more consistent, never tried 777 might try it to see.

The Double D
01-08-2011, 01:37 PM
I have yet to see this mess of blackpowder I have heard so much about. I have come to believe it a myth or old wives tale. Nor have I been able to discover the corrosive effects of black powder.

On the other hand the smokeless powders called substitutes that contain perchlorates; there is some nastiness. That is the same stuff used in corrosive primed ammo I believe. You can protect gun metal pretty well from the corrosive effect of the substitutes. But brass is different. I have had a bunch of brass ate by Pyrodex and Triple 7.

Here are some cases that were fired exclusively with Triple 7. The cases were washed, dried and tumbled, then stored for two years while I was over seas. This is what the cases looked like straight out of storage. At $4.50 a case, I was less than happy.


01-08-2011, 02:14 PM
Couldn't agree more! Never have figured the myth of how hard to clean or messy or corrosive BP was as compared to the subs????? May be just coffee shop word of mouth that eventually found it's way into fact some how. Wow! Those cases look similar to some I've seen that were shot with the old corrosive primers- then stored for awhile. Are they Bertram Martinis?

01-08-2011, 03:42 PM
I tried American Pioneer powder in my 45-70. Nothing to brag about bit id did ok. I believe one is called Hawthorn or Blackhawk 209 that is supper clean but it's at least 2x other powder costs. It seems like it is starting to get a little cheaper though.

01-08-2011, 04:18 PM
In my neck of the woods real black is rarer than snow. I usually save my limited stock for use in my flincklocks and use Triple 7. After shooting I have found a couple of spritz of Windex with Vinegar just melts all of the crud away.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
01-08-2011, 04:34 PM
Thanks for the replys folks!

At this point sounds like I had better rethink my think'in !:bigsmyl2:

I have a friend who shoots with Mike V. and those folk and he and articals I read talk about the consistancy of good BP loads.

Sure don't sound like it is a likely thing with the "subs."

AND by the way Jim, make mine turkey & swiss on wheat bread![smilie=l: And oh ya, everything on it EXCEPT onions and peppers! :razz:8-)

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot:cbpour:

Doc Highwall
01-08-2011, 04:53 PM
If getting black powder was too hard to come by I would choose 777. Years ago I was talking with some slug gun shooters and they found out that pyrodex was harder to ignite and more corrosive then black powder. Think about it, Hodgdon makes pyrodex and if it was so good why would they come out with 777.