Testing hardness effectivness for cast boolits for Hunting!

[1Shirt]

Read with interest the thread on the performance of BT on African game, and got to wondering about suitable testing media. This past weekend in Tex. my son in law shot through both shoulders of a boar (about 150 lb) and killed a small one on the otherside with a 45LC cast 265 water dropped wheelweight out of a lever gun at about 25 yds. This got me to thinking that there ought to be a way of testing performance of penetration of cast for hunting that would be realistic. I have pretty much been satisfied with the loads I shoot for hunting if they go cleanly through a 4x4 in 30 cal and up believing that this should be adequate penitration on most american game. That maybe not the case after reading the thread. Soooo----who tests what with what for performance on cast that they use for hunting. Secondly, have always thought that water dropped wheelweights would be just about hard enought for deer without nose softening, but now am wondering about that also. Think I may try Paco Kelly's hard shot formula and process that seems to work for him. Any thoughts based on experiance would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance to all who respond to this thread.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Bass Ackward]

1Shirt,

Before I get started, I can always send you another. Good thing it ain't 1undies!!!! :grin: Sorry. Couldn't resist.

There is no perfect medium. What you need to do (IMO) is use one medium and stick with it. Then compare your actual on game results to what you observe with your medium. When you do, you will be able to try something else and compare it to the last. That is going to take an AWFUL lot of time to accomplish.

IF you use water jugs and catch the bullet at the end of the line, you get to see the bullet too. I can tell you that if you blow up the first two jugs of water and then just break up the rest, you will have a devastating bullet on deer. IF it goes through 5 milk gallon jugs, you can use any shot angle you want. Then you get the plus of looking at what the bullet did.

Each animal is different too based on skelital structure. Just place enough wet, news print in front of the jugs to simulate entrance hyde, skin. Deer is 1". If you want to see bone action, then place cattle bones of the same size inbetween the news print and water jugs. Spray paint the bone pattern on the front of the wet news print.

With water jugs you just add a few more in the line. With bigger bullets, you just add more in the line. Easiest I could come up with. Want to know what happens at what distance, then back up or get as close as you want.

KISS.

[jhalcott]

there is a product called the "bullet test tube" that looks interesting for this purpose. Being che,--make that econimcal-- I don't think many of us will spend the $$ to get one. I've hinted to family and friends that Christmas is coming.[smilie=1:
I've used the milk jugs and wet/dry phone books to test .I also used some cattle carcasses that died in a fire to test some bullets. I've been trying to get some Beef or buffalo leg bones to test some linotype bullets on .I want to see if lino REALLY shatters on bone like it does on steel targets.

[Char-Gar]

If you want well tested expanding bullets, that are predictable (to a point) in their performance in the game field, keep shooting those dreadfull little yellow thingies. The gun rags and filled with test after test of expansation and penetration.

Folks who have been on the cast bullet circuit for a while, learn not to expect expansion from a cast bullet.. meplat, size and weight is what matters. Shure there might be some expansion, but that is just iceing on the cake if and when it occurs.

The good old reliable hollow point cast bullet can be expected to give decent expansion with the right alloy and impact velocity, but it does it at the expense of penetration. There is no free lunch with cast bullets!

You can test and test and test, and still not have any result that tell you anything about real world game shooting. Meplat,.diameter and weight...that is where it is at.

[trk]

...
With water jugs you just add a few more in the line. With bigger bullets, you just add more in the line. Easiest I could come up with. Want to know what happens at what distance, then back up or get as close as you want. KISS.

I put 7 in a row. The 485gr (.458WM) cast slug blew up the first six, bullet skewed a little to the right and missed the 7th. Good enough for woodchucks!

[1Shirt]

Well, from my own experiance, have to pretty much agree with Charger. Like and have always liked flat nosed, wide meplat, heavy blts. for the cal I am shooting. That is particularly true for me with my 45-70, and 375 H&H. However, in addition to heavy for cal and wide flat nose is the break up issue at "X" vol with blts that are overly hard. They are fine for target work, or even for non meat critters. However, am also interested in jhalcott's bullet test tube. Who makes the thing, what's it supposed to do, and how many arms and legs do they want for the thing. Shot a goodsized boar in Tex a year ago with a 45-70 with a nose softened in water. It was cast of 80% wheelweight, 20% Lino, and water dropped. Am cheap, so do not have a hardness tester, but would bet that it was well above mid 20 BH. It did everything I could ask of it over 26gr. of 2400. Shot just under the ear in a profile shot, it was a 45 cal in, but did not exit. Anyhow, am most concerned with clean kills with cast (presuming proper blt placement). Have never lost a game animal I have hit, and hope I never do, but will admit, that there has been a bit of luck in a couple of them. Will start collecting milk jugs and working more with the chrono. Afterall, to me half the joy of playing with cast is the testing. If everything went by the numbers, I would get tired of it and start with archery.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[jhalcott]

http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/brandlisting?brandid=2315
mid way has it .Google a search for "Bullet test Tube" for more info

[charger 1]

1Shirt,

Each animal is different too based on skelital structure. Just place enough wet, news print in front of the jugs to simulate entrance hyde, skin. Deer is 1". If you want to see bone action, then place cattle bones of the same size inbetween the news print and water jugs. Spray paint the bone pattern on the front of the wet news print.

KISS.

I find newsprint/paper has the same abrasive effect as sand. Couldnt get an accurate idea cause it was breaking the bullet down much differently than flesh. I've found that for north american venison the plastic 45 gallon drums with a garbage bag inside simulates pretty close. Pulling the bag out slowly allows any fragments to be found and when you wanta go again just replace bag

[Lloyd Smale]

when we test bullets we use a wet news paper box and in front of it use either a cow or buffalo shoulder bone or if we cant get it two or three layers of hardwood planks from shipping crates. It may not simulate an actuall animal but it is probably a more severe test and gives good comparison testing. An easy way to measure bullet penetration in the media is to take a cleaning rod and shove it in the hole. Its kind of a pain to set up but is pretty consistant as to penetration with different bullets.

[1Shirt]

I always appreciate words of wisdom, particularly if they are based on experiance rather than hear say. Will now expand my scope of testing, get a bunch of shoulder bones, and consider one of the "bullet test tubes", in addition to water jugs, and groups of series wooden baffels. Many years ago I played with a number of dowels in a board with a target behind that I could see, but could not get a blt. through without hitting a dowel. Testing is always the proof in the pudding, and never could get a blt from 22 to 45 through to the target without serious deflection. Flat nose and penitration are keys, and when I can get hollow point molds without becoming one armed and legged will be shooting those as well. If everything was textbook perfect with every shot with every rifle, I would get tired of shooting. As that will never happen I will just keep at it and enjoy it when results are great, and keep trying when they arn't.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Cayoot]

This past weekend in Tex. my son in law shot through both shoulders of a boar (about 150 lb) and killed a small one on the otherside with a 45LC cast 265 water dropped wheelweight out of a lever gun at about 25 yds. :

Can I ask what the approximate velocity was for this wonderful load?

[Dale53]

If the cast bullet is big enough who cares if it expands? I like big bullets (over .40 caliber) and large, flat meplats. Keep in mind I have done all of my deer hunting (and harvesting) with .44 magnum handguns. I am satisfied with either the 250 Keith or Lee's 310gr RF. They will both do a FINE job if you do yours.

All of this discussion presupposes that you hit where you should, by FAR, the most important part of the equation.

Dale53