What should I carry?

[Arisaka99]

I am going turkey hunting this spring in bear and coyote country, and I will either have my H&R 20ga Mod choke 3in chamber, or a Remington 870 12ga. I was planning on carrying some kind of sidearm, what should it be? something lightweight and capable of taking bear and coyote. I was thinking .357, but it will probably be .44mag. Wayne Smith and I were talking about it, and I will probably carry some Buckshot as well.

[crabo]

What kind of sidearms do you have available?

[Arisaka99]

Several different ones. Mainly wheelguns. I will talk to Wayne and get back to you. Probably a .357 and a .44mag.

[1Shirt]

Suggest you take a few slugs for the shotgun rather than just buckshot.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[BoolitBill]

Slugs and a .44 I never ran into a bear but did anger some feral hogs once, the .357 felt very puny with three hogs snorting and threatening to charge. Ever since I have packed either a .44 or a .45 I don't really know if it would have made a difference but it does make me feel better.

[DIRT Farmer]

Given a choice around things that want to chase me, I have devoloped a real fondness for a 870 in 12 ga. A lot of years ago we had a pack of dogs that were killing livestock. We chased them into a thicket and I was elected to go in. They objected to my intrusion with a lot of growling and barking, I stood my ground, they lost. The secind time I had the problem, I had recently had open heart surgery and did not feel up to shooting a 12 ga (it hurt like, well it really hurt ) so I used a mini 14 in .223. If I ever have to do the job again, I will carry a 870. Mine has never let me down with he right load when disagreeing with man or beast.

[quilbilly]

Don't count on the buckshot for a bear. I have a close friend with ongoing bear problems in his neighborhood (including on his front porch). Two years ago he caught a 150 pounder on his porch and shot it with 12 ga double 0 as it was exiting his garden from 25 yards. It dropped within 40 yards after catching only three pellets (that I could see after helping skin it). This summer he had another larger one (300#) on his porch and again shot it in the garden from about 20 yards. It caught 4 pellets and the bear only got sickly. Four hours later and several rifle hits finally killed it only 50 yards from the house in a bramble patch. Don't use on buckshot for bear!!! Use rifle slugs!!!

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Don't get me wrong, I LIKE HANDGUNS!

However, use what you have in your hand, the shotgun and make it the 870.

By the time you switch from your shotgun to your hand gun, you could have fired or shucked a couple shot shells from the 870 and be loaded with a good slug load.

I have carried a side arm while rifle hunting, but in truth more just cause it was fun to have it along as if push came to shove, I have the rifle in hand or there much faster then making a switch and drawing the sidearm.

If I was in a push comes to shove situation with a bear, the distance would be measured in feet, not yards and a heavy turkey load of #4 or 5 shot within feet of the muzzle will blow a might big hole in a critter.

Typically the chokes are tight for turkey and at just feet from the end of the barrel, 1 1/2 to 1 7/8oz of shot from a 3" - 12gauge turkey load would be awesome in it's distructive abilities.

Just try out a couple of test loads and I think you will see what I mean!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Arisaka99]

Ok, thanks guys

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I would dump the shot out of a shot shell and drop in an apropriate size Round Ball. At 20 yards or less it will be plenty accurate and outpenetrate any Buck shot load.
On the hand gun route Bigger is always better. A 260 + grain 44 boolit is goung to be far better than anything you could load into a 357.

[Larry Gibson]

Your turkey 12 ga load probably will do nicely on coyotes out to 50 yards or so depending on the shot size and choke you're using. I'd also opt for slugs in lieu of buckshot if a bear was a real possibility. I hunt in bear country (PNW) and really don't have a lot of concern about them. I frequently carry a .357 or .32 Revolver when grouse hunting but always have several slugs in my pocket. The 12 ga slug is much more effective than any handgun I own. A "defensive" ranges the smoothbore is plenty accurate enough also. I will say that when I am just carrying a handgun in those woods I most often pack a .41, .44, or a .45 ACP. I'm more concerned about 2 legged varmints in the woods these days than bears.

Larry Gibson

[dk17hmr]

Probably should make sure it is legal first to carry an handgun while turkey hunting. If its not make sure it is legal to have buck shot or slugs with you. In Michigan I think it was nothing larger than #4 shot, on your person when hunting turkey.

Alot of coyote hunters use #4 shot out of 12 gauges out to about 50 yards and up close and personal with a bear it would work just fine......have to remember you are turkey hunting though, unless you have a bear tag you would have to explain why you shot a bear and if you didnt have blood splatter on your clothing from being that close to it when you shot might have some trouble explaining self defense.

[BoolitBill]

If legal of course, I still recommend taking a handgun with you. In my post above the reason I had a .357 in my hand was that the rifle I just shot one of the hogs with jammed on me. I didn't need to use it but a handgun beats a rifle turned into a club any day. And a good shotgun with slugs will make your handgun an insurance policy. I guess I am sort of a belt and suspenders kind of guy.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Yep, up close and personal is what we should be talking about here.

Anything farther out is NOT defensive when we are talking 4 legged critters.

Larry is correct, MUCH more likely to have a life/death situation with a 2 legged type then the 4 legged verity.

And again as already stated, at push comes to shove/up close and personal ranges where a person SHOULD be taking defensive action against the 4 legged type, a "turkey" load out of a 12 gauge WILL solve the problem.

A young local fellow went into defensive mode during the 2010 elk season here in Ideeeeeeeho, just a short distance from here. Happened to turn around and a VERY!!! large cougar was crouched and ready to make the young man his next meal.

The fellow told me when he pulled up the rifle, all he could see was head.

He didn't grab for a sidearm, but used what was already in his hand.

First shot hit off center of the head, so a second shot was needed to finish the job.

He was shoot'in an "06" and a side to side shot in the shoulder did not give full penetration.

His father told me the cat was impressively muscled!!!!!!!!!!! They have the bullet, which is well expanded and did not fail in anyway, but still stopped before exiting.

That in itself is impressive, considering the very close "up close and personal" range of the action.

The hide is in the process of becoming a full body mount for their home and if it is as impressive as the photographs, it will be something to see. VERY BIG CAT!!!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[CharlieB]

New member here. bear with me. I agree with advice that rifle or 12 ga with any load is better than handgun of any caliber in an up close dissagreement with a bear and they are my 1st choices. My son and I had an experience worth relating last Sept. Bear season opened Sept 1st and archery elk Sept 7th. We were scouting for elk on Labor Day weekend with eyes open for bear fattening up on Huckleberries, too. We left rifles at home, so as not to have to explain posessing them during archery elk season - a no-no in WA state. We are alllowed to carry handgun, even during archery hunt, so we were. Son spotted bear, stalked it, and put arrow through sholder at 20 yards, where-upon it charge him. He drew his 45 ACP and shot bear in front shoulder at 5 yards with full house 200gr JHP. The bear turned off but didn't otherwise take much notice of 45 ACP wound. Shaken, son radioed me to bring cleaning and dragging gear AND 44 Mag S&W 329PD. We followed bear into willow thicket, he charged, son's 2nd arrow missed at such close range, and I shot it with 44 Mag 300gr LBT WFNGC at 1050 fps. Bear turned off, got sick fast, and expired within minutes. Post mortem of bear showed: 1st arrow only penetrated shoulder by 3" into lungs, 45 ACP 200gr didn't penetrate shoulder into chest cavity at all, and 300gr LBT WFNGC penetrated fully - in at shoulder, out at last rib, and permanent wound cavity was over 1" diameter the whole way - approximately 30" of penetration. I draw the conclusions: Use rifle, if possible, but carry 41 mag or 44 mag pistol in case.... Alaska Guides advice to go for penetration and use .357 min or 44 mag even better, with heavy hard cast or solids and never SP or HP, is good advice. This bear wasn't even a big one (170 lbs) but was still tough and had big teeth and claws when viewed up close.

[NSP64]

I agree.
Carry whats legal.
12 ga pump is first choice.
Handgun as backup.
Several hits with stout hard cast 357 beats miss with 44.
As in any defensive situation, practice, practice, practice
Remember, our forefathers hunted with such LAME calibers as 25-20 , 32-20 and got the job done.

[GunnyJohn]

On the legality side of things, Here in Oregon a few years back it was illegal to carry any firearm during bow season. Alot of guys wanted to carry a handgun for personal protection. but F&G said no. So it was then challenged as a constitutional issue. We can now carry what ever we want in the way of fireams during what ever season. Something to think about if your state is as goofy as this one can be.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
As far as the 870 goes I would opt for Round Ball over the standard slug. A hollow slug will bounce off the neck armor of large crocodile at less than 10 feet. A round ball will not bounce off. Just take a standard shot load, dump the powder and insert a .68 RB. I have never popped a big bear with that RB load but cannot imagine any bone structure less than an elephant sckull that is stronger than large croc neck armor. I would not count on precise accuracy past 35 yards but then a bear past 35 yards does not constitute much of a physical threat.

[10 ga]

DO NOT CARRY ANY EXTRA WEIGHT WHEN TURKEY HUNTING! You will regret it. If you can't kill it at 10' with a shotgun load of #4 fine shot it's a grizzly bear and no stinkin pistol that you'd carry turkey hunting is going to do any good. In VA you cannot carry any shot larger than that when spring turkey hunting. Forget the sidearms, they are extra weight and just slow you down and tire you out, and if you're into turkey hunting you know the shotgun is all you really need. Best, 10

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Yep, that about sums it up 10gauge!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[MtGun44]

shot and buckshot do not penetrate well enough to stop a bear quickly in a self defense
situation. Hunting and self defense are entirely different applications. Wound a bear in
hunting and he runs 100-200 yds, no big deal. Wound him at 10 ft as he is coming to get
you, you will really pay for that time delay effect.

Slug and boolit at 1000 fps in .44 mag will be perfect, drive VERY deep holes.

Bill

[sabbatus]

just my two cents on a old topic, as far as the sidearm i carry whatever one you shoot the best instinctively. on any critter trying to make you part of lunch you will not have a ton of time for aiming. if you resort to a sidearm its going to be draw and fire, kind of like a western gunfight, I would rather be extra accurate than extra powerful. a well placed .357 will do much better than a misplaced or missed 44.

[Matthew 25]

Charlie, thanks for the ballistics info -I like that.
I agree with solid slugs in the 12g. I'd still carry the .44 though.

[x101airborne]

if youre hunting alone, carry the 44 as a backup. If youre in a group, carry a 22. Then you dont HAVE to out run the bear, just your buddy.