.303 British loads

[trk]

Just picked up a #4 Mk1 (1943) told to be a BSA. Walnut stock, wonderful shape - VERY little wear ($125 at a gun show).

Where do I start with cast boolets? I'll sort through my moulds for something that will fit, but if I can't find anything, what do y'all suggest I start with? Looking for plinking and punching paper loads.

[Phil]

The 314299 Lyman bullet has been a great bullet in my 303's. Some good loads in mine have been around 20 grains of R4759 and 24 grains of IMR4198. I've also used Reloader 7 and IMR4227 with success. Lots of guys use about 16 grains of 2400. Neck size only for the 303, the cases will last forever. Sounds like you have a keeper there, enjoy it. I really like shooting the 303's.

Cheers,

Phil

[Hip's Ax]

I plan on using the 314299 and 2400 in my Enfields as well. Not being experienced on cast loads yet I'll pass on what I've learned about #4 rifles as I've shot my share of J bullets through my No4Mk2. Here's what I've done to increase brass life for these rifles. These rifles are set up with generous head space but you can swap bolt heads to tighten that up. Get you hands on a set of head space gages and swap the bolt heads until you hopefully get commercial NoGo to not close. I say commercial because theres quite a difference in military 303 gages and commercial 303 gages, if I remember correctly commercial Field is military NoGo. If your lucky you have a number 1 bolthead now and a number 2 will fix it up, the number 3 heads can be hard to find. After you get this correct or at least as tight as you can the next step is your reloading habits. After you once fire your brass in this rifle you'll see two things, the shoulder has moved FAR forward and the outer diameter of the body has grown. As Phil pointed out neck sizing only is the way to go and my favorite die for this is the Lee Collet die. A seperate body die is the best way to knock the shoulder back when it needs it, this way you avoid over working the brass as much as possible. Annealing the necks every few times you fire will ward off splits, with the low pressures that cast loads generate I see no reason why your brass shouldn't last for a long, long time. Good thing with the increase in brass prices and all, last time I bought 500 pieces of R-P 303 a few years back it was $86, now its $135. HTH

[NVcurmudgeon]

As others have said, Lyman 314299 and 16.0 grains of 2400 is an excellent load in .303 British, and .30/06, and .30/40 Krag, and 7.65 x 53 Mauser. The limiting factor on brass life in your No. 4 is more likely to be an extra-roomy chamber than excessive headspace. The British Army knew that these rifles would be used with hurry-up ammunition made all over the Empire, in jungle mud, Arctic snow and ice, and desert sand. Function under all conditions was a major concern, with reloading not thought about. For best case life use a true neck sizing die, not partial full length sizing that some loaders might tell you is neck sizing. My "true neck sizing die" for .303 is a 7.65 X 53 Argentine Mauser full length sizing die with a .080" shim between the die and the top of the press. With this adjustment, the neck is fully sized, but the body and the shoulder are not touched. I was lucky to have a die on hand for a bigger case .31 cal. cartridge, but if I didn't I would have gotten a real neck sizing die. The last one I bought was about the price of 100 new cases. For more on .303 case life go to www.303British.com

[longbow]

trk

I've been playing with two .303's and so far have found that they both seem to like a bullet with a large nose.

Both have nice shiney but oversize bores and 5 groove rifling. Both are .314" groove, one is .305" (- a bit) bore and the other is .303" (+ a bit) bore. 5 groove is a pain in the butt to measure!

One has been shot with military surplus ammo which got poor accuracy at about 3" at 50 yards and Federal 150 gr. which gave about 6" groups at 50 yards. That surprised me so I decided cast was the way to go and fill up that bore.

I have tried 314299 (.303" nose/.311" body as cast - a borrowed mould) with and without gas check, 314299 sized to .314" (lapped to .306" nose/.315" body - my mould but cast at .313" when bought), 311041 as cast at .311", paper patched at .315" and home made mould at .307" nose/.314" body.

I have tried as cast air cooled and water quenched wheelweights; with and without gas checks, with and without case filler.

Powders tested" Unique, IMR 4227, IMR 4064, IMR 4320.

So far the best results have been with the lapped 314299 at .306" nose/sized .314" body and my home made mould at .307" nose/.314" body over 12 grs. Unique and cornmeal case filler. This is giving 1 1/2" groups at 50 yards - with the rather coarse battle sights. I think better sights would help reduce group size a bit.

You will find a variety of opinions about fillers but I think if loads are developed properly it has its place and is safe. Don't just fill up a case with cornmeal! Work up the load and watch for pressure signs.

Some very good information on .303 British is here http://www.303british.com/ and there is some good information on cast bullet loads in an article by David Southall.

You should slug your barrel to determine what bullet size is required. My feeling is that the bore riding nose section of the 314299 is too small and does not provide enough support. Both the lapped 314299 and my home made mould give bullets with larger noses and both seem to work better in my guns anyway.

Comments about neck sizing only are good. It seems .303's typically have much oversized chambers so brass work hardens quickly if full length sized.

Also, though I haven't tried this myself yet I understand that 30-40 Krag brass can be full length sized then trimmed to make .303 British cartridges. Even here in Canada .303 British brass is more expensive than 30-40 Krag so I bet it is a lot more expensive than 30-40 Krag in the States.

So far I am having fun and learning in my quest for a good load with a cast bullet at 1800 to 2000 FPS in these guns. I am getting there but it is a bit of a challenge.

I hope you enjoy shooting yours.

Good luck.

Longbow

[trk]

WOW, lots of information to sift through.

Took it to the range today, having only a 50 round bandoleer ran them through. Standing position without a sling only. There is nothing like a SMLE for a comfortable hold. Stocks are a little short but there's enough mass up front for a good stable hold (gun control).

2-3" rocks at 25 yards became instant gravel. Could hit a 1"x24" stick at 100 (made it jump anyway) 2 shots of 3. Now I've got 50 cases to prep. Found a friend this morning who will part with an RCBS set of dies.

Looks like (quick scan through the responses) that 314299 is the ticket. Until I come by one is there a cheap Lee bullet that is considered successful?

Got to clean it now, and slug the bore.

[BruceB]

Most of us may well already have a ".303 neck-size die" on the bench. It's called a .308 Winchester sizer.

The angle of the .308 case taper is much less abrupt than that of the .303 case, and the shoulder angle is such that the .303 case can have an ample amount of the neck sized without touching either the shoulder of the case, or the body behind the shoulder.

I've used the .308 die for neck-sizing the .303 both with the original expander ball for the .308, and with the one removed from the .303 die.....it helps to have dies from the same manufacturer, in this adaptation. There wasn't any noticeable difference between the diameters, in case life or boolit seating effort. The seating effort should be the much the same, because I use the same .30 Carbine neck expander for both sized diameters.

Although rimmed cases headspace on the rim with FACTORY rounds, a handloader is in full control of his rifle's headspace as long as the shoulder isn't set back in sizing. In other words, whether or not a .303 meets specs for its headspace, no mechanical alteration to the rifle is necessary to create rounds that fill the chamber correctly, just as a rimless case does, by using the shoulder as a positive stop. Naturally, this requires some careful adjustment of the sizing die. I like to be able to feel just a touch of resistance on the bolt handle as the bolt locks up. (The same holds true for almost any rifle with excessive headspace. My best personal example was a 1903 Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifle, which was in fine shape apart from seriously-excessive headspace which led to many early head separations. Proper sizing-die adjustment fixed the problem perfectly. This is not my current 1903 M-S, which headspaces just fine, thanks.)

Re: the Krag case....in my Krag, I can chamber an unaltered factory-new .303 British case and cam the bolt closed to full lock, with the rifle "resizing" the shoulder of the .303 case. Don't let any loaded .303 rounds into your Krags, gentlemen! The combination of somewhat higher (factory) pressure and oversize bullets might just prove a bit much for the old gals.

[trk]

Good suggestions. Just got done cleaning. Inside of case mouths measured .315-316-318 so neck sizing will be minimal. Found a 160 gr Lee flat base bullet that might work (from wedging into the forcing cone - one of the group buy bullets that is far too big for any of my standard .30's. #3 on the bolt head. Don't have any more unfired rounds, otherwise I'd measure the amount of headspace by adding known-thickness shims to the bullet base and closing the bolt - maybe I've got some plasti-gauge left over - hmmm.

[trk]

Finally got the die set - RCBS - on permantent loan from a good (elderly) friend.

Took BruceB's advice and after punching the primers, took the .308W FL die to neck size 5 cases as a test.

WOW - easy, definative. Took one in to work to MEASURE how well it worked. The ID and OD were concentric within a few tenths (ten thousandths). AND (measuring it on the coordinate measuring machine) found that the axis of the neck was not perpendicular with the base by 0.0003" ! I'd always wanted to know.

Next I'm making a series of expander mandrels to fit the Sinclair holder to expand to the size best for loading and accuracy.

One small step at a time.

[KCSO]

If you are just gettng started and are on a budget try the Lee 165 gr. spire point g/c made for the 7.62X39. This bullet with Red Dot p[owder has been an excellent preformer in both 2 and 5 groove 303 rifles. Once again i will mention that 30-40 Krag brass necked and trimmed will make super brass for the 303 and will last twice as long especially when neck sized after the first loading.

[Phil]

It might be worth your money to do what I plan on doing just because I'm not flush with money to buy a bunch of dies. Get a Redding bushing type neck sizing die in 308 Win. Get the neck sizing bushings that you need for the cartridges you want to neck size (30-06, 308, 30-40, 303, 7.7x58, 7.65x53, maybe 30-30, etc) WITHOUT using an expander ball.

Another trick is to set the headspace as tight as you can get it using THE CASES YOU ARE GOING TO BE SHOOTING by switching bolt heads. I was taught this by an old barrel maker, Bob Sherer, and it really aids in accuracy. Not sure the effect will be significant in a milsurp rifle but it sure does help a competition single shot.

Cheers,

Phil

[trk]

My experience with the 308 die sizing and keeping the alignment (perpendicularity of neck with base) has been good - noting that there is NO support of the case. I have several other calibers that I use the Wilson collet-neck sizing dies (but they are hand dies - not 7/8-14. I assume that the Redding is standard 7/8-14? I do like the idea of minimal sizing - I think it one of the reasons for the Lee collet-neck-sizing dies working so well (but they only work for just the one caliber for which they're made as they depend on the ram pressing on them and there is little adjustment - not to mention cost).

[Phil]

Yep, Redding is 7/8x14.

Cheers,

Phil