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gasboffer
01-01-2011, 12:19 PM
Anyone here use Lil-Gun powder? I started using it for .22 Hornet and had pretty good results. Then tried it in .357 mag and .357 Max.
Shortly after, I read in one of the shooting sites where the owner of Freedom Arms warned against using it. It has burned out the forcing cone in as few as one cylinder full of this ammo loaded with this powder.
I had used it in one silhouette match, just for the rams, and was pretty worried when I read this. I looked, but couldn't see any damage to the forcing cone in my FA 353. However, I had been shooting this same load in a Ruger Blackhawk, .357, and yesterday I was cleaning it. Looked closely at the rear of the bbl, and there was definitely gas cutting on the rear of the bbl. I couldn't see into the rear of the forcing cone well enough to assess the damage there.
The rest of the Lil-Gun powder is now fertilizer in my flower bed.
I read recently that Alliant Powder Co. had come out with a new powder. Not sure, but it sounded like this powder resembled Lil-Gun.
I've gone back to 296, 4227, and 2400 for .357 loads. I like the smell of fired 4227 better anyway.
Clyde

bhn22
01-01-2011, 12:31 PM
Contact Hodgdon for the facts. The early batches of Lil Gun were a bit hot. This is supposed to be corrected now

ReloaderFred
01-01-2011, 12:39 PM
Lil'Gun is my "go to" powder for heavy cast bullet loads in my Marlin carbines in .357 Magnum. By heavy bullets, I mean 175 to 185 grain gas checked bullets. With Lil'Gun, I'm getting 1,710 fps with a 180 gr. RNFP-GS bullet from the carbine, and no evidence of any problems. That's almost 200 fps faster than Winchester 296, and more accurate, too. Velocities were taken at 15' from my PACT Professional Chronograph.

I don't use it in handguns, since I think it needs the longer barrel of the carbine to reach it's full potential.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Guesser
01-01-2011, 12:45 PM
I contacted Hodgdon when I read the stories on the "other" site. I received back the following reply:

I am skeptical as well. The flame temperature of Lil Gun, 296, H110, Longshot, HP38 is all the same. The flame duration on charges for the 454 will be nearly identical for 296, Lil Gun, and H110. There should be no difference in the flame cutting of 296, H110, or Lil Gun.
Signed:
Mike Daly
Customer Service Manager
Hodgdon Family of Fine Propellents


I have loaded a lot of Lil GUn in 454, heavy 45 Colt and 22 Hornet. None in a FA, most in Taurus Raging revolvers and have no sign of what was and is being described. I remain skeptical.

buck1
01-01-2011, 12:59 PM
Freedom Arms doesnt blow a lot of smoke up our ... . And Hodgdon makes it and so has a chip in this game. So as for me I will use something else..Why risk it.......Buck

BD
01-01-2011, 03:24 PM
Lil Gun is the "powder of choice" for reloading the .450Bushmaster, and I burned a couple of pounds of it while figuring that cartridge out. While at it, it became apparent that the Lil Gun loads heated up the barrel about twice as fast as H110, and much faster than my surplus 297. Five full house rounds loaded with Lil Gun would leave the barrel to hot to hold, while five rounds loaded with H110 would leave it just warm to the touch.
BD

BCall
01-01-2011, 04:11 PM
Works great in my 22 hornets. I stick to 2400 for the 357 though.

Eutectic
01-01-2011, 06:36 PM
I've shot 6 or 7 pounds of LilGun now in my two .22 Hornets. That's a lot of rounds! I've seen nothing as to undue erosion; in fact both barrels are still pristine.

odis
01-01-2011, 06:38 PM
Lil Gun is the "powder of choice" for reloading the .450Bushmaster, and I burned a couple of pounds of it while figuring that cartridge out. While at it, it became apparent that the Lil Gun loads heated up the barrel about twice as fast as H110, and much faster than my surplus 297. Five full house rounds loaded with Lil Gun would leave the barrel to hot to hold, while five rounds loaded with H110 would leave it just warm to the touch.
BDYou described my experience to a tee, five rounds and the barrel is VERY hot. Its to bad too because it is the most accurate powder in my BFR.

Lloyd Smale
01-02-2011, 08:55 AM
ill give you this for my actual results as to how hot it burns. I for a few years used it exclusively in my 50beowolf ar. It gave great velocitys and accuracy. One day i loaded up some ammo with 110 and with wc297 and went to the range. If i shot 5 shots fast i could about light a cigerette of the barrel of my gun using lilgun. Switching to either of the other two powders i could do the same and put my hand on the barrel. BIG difference in how hot it burns and i dont care what some phone jocky at hodgdons says. Would it do harm to a nomal bolt action or lever action gun that didnt have a forcing cone? I doubt it. But i sure wont use it in an ar or a handgun anymore. I also did a test later in a revolver and again it didnt take a blind man to notice it burned much hotter.

Jumbopanda
01-02-2011, 09:17 AM
After using Lil Gun in my .454 Super Redhawk, I noticed significantly more forcing cone wear.

onondaga
01-02-2011, 03:59 PM
I am not fond of this powder. I tried it in my NEF Ultra Rifle in .500 S&W Mag. The starting loads kick harder than any of 5 other powders I have tried and it doesn't group any better, so I have laid it aside. It has yielded extreme velocity with cast .452 bullets in sabots for the .500 S&W but accuracy was nothing to write home about.

Gary

JSH
01-02-2011, 04:23 PM
I have never ran any through a wheel gun, so have no real input there. Shooting IHMSA is about as fast as I want or need to shoot, 2 1/2 minutes for 5 rounds. I have no issue with little gun in my TC's and my Marlin lever gun. It has out shot and out performed any other load combo I have came up with for the 357.
As to it need ing a longer barrel to work, my TC barrel is a 10" and 180 RCBS sil bullet is running right at 1700 fps out of it. I backed that load off for the marlin and have not ran it over the chrono any, yet.
I have kept a close eye on throat wear and made some notes in my log book. I have seen no measurable wear as of this date.
I don't think it fair to lump the results of a revolver to that of a closed breach gun.
Not doubting you either Llyod as I highly respect your in put on your findings. But just why would you need to shoot somthing 5 times with the 50 Beowolf <grin>. If it wasn't dead it was sure ticked off.
jeff

357maximum
01-02-2011, 04:42 PM
After about 6-8 + lbs of lilgun loaded at full steam + in my 15 inch 357max custom encore I can tell you without a doubt that it will fry/move your leade forward a bit with fullhouse loads. I would also bet my leade looks a bit burnt and rough if it was viewed through a bore scope, but alot of that is MY fault.....scratch that....all of that is my fault as I knew what I was doing when I did it.

In my max Vhit N-120 shoots alot cooler and is less brutal on the barrel with the same performance in speed and accuracy as uppper end LilGun loads. LilGun in my max also gets a bit "spikey" when running the ragged edge of sanity during load development:popcorn:. All that being said LilGun is a good powder for the max if you stay away from the upper crust with your load intensity and do not shoot too rapidly with long strings of shots. It would be awful easy to blame ligun for something that is absolutely my fault but their are several members here who have witnessed me ABUSING my 357max with several different powders. :twisted: