22 CF for cast bullets?

[okiecruffler]

Okay, I've figured out my next barrel. I want a 22 that I can cast bullets for, the ultimate in cheap reloadable shooting. I'm leaning toward the 218 bee, mainly because the hornet brass annoyed me so much when I was playing with it. So between the Bee and the Hornet, which one is easier to deal with brass wise? Ballistically they look about the same with the Bee using just a tad more powder. Or, a bit more exotic, how difficult would it be to size a 22 Jet with a .224 ball? Any other suggestions?
I posted this over on the speciaty pistols board and basically got the response that I's be crazy to even deal with 22 cast bullets. But now that I'm a master caster of 357 bullets, how hard can it be? So what are you guys playing with?

[Trigger44]

Casting .22 cal bullets is not a lot more difficult than say .357. I have been doing both since 1959. I would suggest the 222 Rem as a great place to start. I loaded this cartridge for years with 12.0 gr 4227 and the Lyman 225415 sized to
.225. Lub was a good quality wheel bearing grease. Talk about cheap 22 ammo.

I currently load for the .22 Hornet and custom built 22 BR. Most of my shooting is target these days, so I slill use the slightly messy wheel bearing grease. Never
is leading a problem, nor loading in a cold garage which is a problem for the firm lubs. I cast 22 bullets in six different designs from three mould makers. For .22 bullet casting I think you realy need to have some tin content, say 3-5%.

I shoot the Hornet with sub sonic loads to 2500 fps with a 55 grain gas check.
Twist on the Hornet is 1:12" so the 55 grainers shoot very well. The 22 Br seems to like most loads with the slower powders like H4895 and 3031.

Hope this helps

[357maximum]

http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w224rc.html

[felix]

The 222 case size is extremely friendly for a wide powder burn speed range, making that one case size a do-all for all purposes. The smaller cases tend to be more finicky to load properly in this bore size. Also, the 22-250 is surprisingly good for its oversized powder space, probably compensated for by its long sloping case design. ... felix

[carpetman]

Okiecruffler---I have no experience with the Bee,the Hornet,or the Jet. What I do have experience with--felix is right on. With .222 it seems to be harder to find a load it wont shoot than one that it will. Same same with 22-250. Now my .223 is a different deal. I tried everything and couldnt get it to shoot cast---but it is great with jacketed---probably my most accurate gun. I use the 95 grain RCBS and I have used it with and without the gas check---in .222 or 22-250 it does great either way. You want cheap---I'd say go .222. Small dose of Unique and they perform well. I would like to try a hornet,but don't have one.

[Bass Ackward]

I have had several Hornets and K-Hornets over the years and 222 Remmies. The Hornet case is just so sensitive to .1 grain increment changes because of it's size, that temperature change and slight seating depth changes results in more than that. I never had reproducible results that I could be proud of with several models I owned.

While I never played much with a standard Bee, the Mashburn version of that is a crackerjack and would be my choice if I needed a rimmed case version. But dies will cost you. Most problems associated with Hornets and 223s are related to throat sizes. The Hornet has blown more rifles than any other standard factory cartridge. So throats were increased in size to cut pressure. Same with 223s as some manufacturers worry about using military ammo in them. The bolt on the good Savage 223s that I checked went flop closed on a RCBS 60 grainer for the old Savage High Power with a .228 bullet. So I built my 223.

Throat size is either going to make or break ya no matter what you get. And unlike some larger bore diameters that have backgrounds with cast, you only have .224 or .225 sizers until you jump to .228. So you really need .225 to work or it will cost ya more as it cuts out factory options for you. Twist rates are also something to consider. The best throat in the world will be severely limited if married up to a 7 twist.

The 222 is probably the best factory option for all things considered if you can still get one. HTHs.

[w30wcf]

My experience with cast in a .22 Hornet and .22KHornet (both '43 Winchesters) has been very good. Bullets used have been the NEI 45 gr. and Lyman's 225438 and 225415.

Accuracy rivals what both rifles will do with jacketed. My alloy is w.w + 2% tin air cooled. I find that I can run these gas checked bullets over the standard charges of 4227 or 680 (2,500-2,800 f.p.s.) and they shoot very well.

For a load that duplicates the old .22 W.C.F. I like 3.3 grs. of 231 for 1,550 f.p.s.

One thing I did is have new sprue plates made that have .07" sprue holes. It made no sense to me (accuracy wise) to have the Lyman plate with the "one size fits all" large sprue on a .22 caliber cast bullet.

With the .07" sprue hole, casting with one mold at a time, I can cast at a rate of 300 match grade bullets an hour with the single cavity molds. The sprue solidifies very quickly and the fast casting rate (5/minute) keeps the mold up to temperature.

The NEI mold did come equipped with a smaller sprue hole in the plate.....around .10". I eventually had a new sprue plate (.07" sprue hole) made for that mold as well.

Good luck,
w30wcf

[Bullshop]

OK here are a few targets fired from a few different hornets. As you can see the hornet will shoot. I would like to point out that our purpose for the hornet is as a hunting round for which it is superb.
We make no effort whatever to turn our hornet rifles into match target guns. We look for hunting grade accuracy that is cheap and easy to make. By easy to make I mean we do not sort or weigh boolits but just take them as they come. Yes this will allow an ocasional wild flyer but for the most part if the casting technique is fluid and consistant so too will the boolits be consistant.
I can not disagree that the 222 is an easy cartridge to get to shoot good, but with each shooting its best loads I cant get a 222 to shoot any better than a hornet. One of the best cast shooters I have seen is Jr's 788 in 223. It shoots many different boolits with many different powders without complaint. Just as with any gun/caliber you just have to shoot it enough to get a feel for what it will like. I have found that some barrels like fast powders while some like slow powders but seldom do thier best with both.
BTW these are fired at 100yds as measured with a Bushnell 1000.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/bullshop/P1010007.jpg
Most recently I have been working with PB molds and getting very good results. The goal here is cheaper shooting without giving up power or accuracy. Mostly working with modified gc molds as there arent many readily available PB molds.
If anyone is interested I will post some favorite loads. This is getting kind of longish and I have lots to do. BTW BS Mom is home with baby girl, Hope Charity Congiolosi and all is well.
BIC/BS

[Bodydoc447]

When you have a minute to spare, I'd like to know more about the Hornet loads. Thanks in advance and, again, congrats. Glad Momma is doing well, too.


Doc

[HORNET]

Bullshop,
Congrats on the new diaper filler. Hope her and BSMOM continue to do well. We were missing hearing from the brains of your operation.:mrgreen:
Please post those pet Hornet loads. Got any good way to get BLC-2 to burn behind a 55 gr?? Shows promise but very dirty and slow :confused:.
IIRC from talking to the old gentleman (now sorely missed) that taught my dad casting, he said that the .218 Bee was much easier to find a good load for and less sensitive than the 22 Hornet, but that the brass was still very variable and not generally very good.
I missed a chance at the only used REM 700 Classic in .221 that I've ever seen. They don't seem to be around much. Always figured that would be very good and cases could be made from .223's to get enough wall thickness to neck turn for a good fit. Not really that big a deal since I already have a Fireball bbl for the Contender if I ever get it scoped and have enough other .22 CF's to keep me busy.

[Jack Stanley]

I've just started fooling around with a NEI forty-five grain gas check mold . So far the only powders have been AL-8 and Universal Clays in the .223 Remington case . The 788 that is shooting this ammo seems to like it pretty well . Progress is slow in finding a load I can use all the time 'cause of other projects getting in the way . The rifle may just be my plink on sunday morning rifle but that's ok too :-D

Jack

[DLCTEX]

Congratulations on the safe and healthy arrival of Miss Hope Charity, I'm a little envious as I have 5 sons, no daughters, wife finally gave up and accepted her role as the sole female until the daughter-in-laws came along.

[Bullshop]

Thanks to all for the well wishes. Yes BS Mom is the brains, she just married me for the free boolits.

Here are some favorite hornet loads. Remember you may have to refine these for your guns but they are good places to start.
As I said I dont try to make a bench gun from my sporting hornets so we dont segregate boolits at all as its just too much tado for the volume we shoot. We also do not weigh powder, all charges are thrown. Yea we might do a little better by weighing but again too too. Our accuracy goal is to keep grouping tight enough to stay on a rabbits head at 100 yards. Thats what our hornets are for, small game within 100 yards or just a bit over. Sure you can do that with a good accurate 22 lr, but the 22lr dont have the smack of the hornet on tougher critters like wolverine or coyote (pay check).
1- A+
case - RP
boolit - cbe 55gn or Lyman 225415
primer - RP 6 1/2
powder 10.6gn Scott 4197 (now AA 2015)

2 A+
case - RP
boolit - 55gn cbe or Lyman
primer - RP 6 1/2
powder - 7.6gn H4227

3 B
case RP
boolit - 55gn cbe or Lyman
primer - RP 7 1/2 or 6 1/2
powder - 5.7gn IMR 800 X
note - if milder primers are used up powder .1 to .2 gn

4 B+
case - WW
boolit - 55gn cbe or Lyman
primer - cci # 550 spm
powder - 12.5gn Thunderbird T - 680
note - chrono - hi - 2444 - lo - 2439 fps

5 B
case - RP
boolit - NEI #2 45gn
primer - RP 7 1/2
powder - 5gn Alliant Steel
note - AMV - 1800fps

6 A
case - RP
boolit - cbe or Lyman 55gn
primer - Federal #100
powder - 8.5gn IMR 4759

7 A++
case - WW
boolit - NEI #2 45gn
primer - RP 6 1/2
powder - 6.5gn WW 630 (no more 630- bummer!!!)

8 A+
case - WW
boolit - NEI #2 45gn
primer - Fed #205
powder - 8.5gn H 4227

9 B+
case - RP
boolit - NEI #2 45gn
primer - Fed #100
powder - 9gn XMP-5744
note - AMV - 1890 fps

10
case - RP
boolit - Lyman 55gn
primer - FEd #100
powder - 10.5gn AA XMP 5744

11 A
case - WW
boolit - Lyman 55gn
primer - Fed #100
powder - 11.5gn WC-680
note - use hotter primer in cold weather

There that should keep ya busy for awhile! We have a few loads logged for jackets too if needed but I prefer to spread the gospel of boolits.
Enjoy!
BIC/BS

[okiecruffler]

Well, my thought is for a cartridge that burns as little powder as possible, so I wasn't really considering the 222. The 221 was kinda in the back of my mind. The 357 max necked down was intriguing enough that I had to run out and form a few cases (one of the advantages of having a collection of reloading dies, I always have the die I want to play with). Definately worth looking at. In fact I have a batch of 360 DW brass that I might run thru the 221 dies to look at. Had forgotten about the K-hornet, that might solve some of my brass problems. Decisions, decisions....

[carpetman]

okiecruffler--If a .222 burns too much powder,you are looking for an air gun.

[okiecruffler]

Across the board the 222 burns almost 2X as much powder as the hornet, granted while giving quite a bit more horsepower. But I already have a 1/2 MOA 223 barrel for horsepower. What I'm thinking toward is a plinker barrel, something that will shoot minute of rabbit out to 100yrds, with minimal recoil, noise and cost.

[felix]

Ok, let's be different. Pick the case in the realm you are already seeking, and up the bore to 25 caliber. That should eliminate or at least reduce your powder sensitivity enough to make the choice more friendly all around. ... felix

[okiecruffler]

Actually, I had been giving some thought to the 25-20. Might still go that route. Just kinda liked the challange of working with those 22cal bullets. Do they make a 17cal mold?

[felix]

Okie, I suggest you cool on this recursiveness, and wait until you are a little more concrete on what you are trying to obtain. ... felix

[Bullshop]

Actually, I had been giving some thought to the 25-20. Might still go that route. Just kinda liked the challange of working with those 22cal bullets. Do they make a 17cal mold?

Okie
Have you thought about the 22 Cooper? I have one of the origonal Cooper rifles from when they first started up in Stevi Montana. Most full power loads push a 45gn boolit to 2000 or a 55gn to about 1800. One of my favorite loads is with the NEI #2 and 3.3gn 800X. Thats over 2000 shots per lb of powder. With a wcww boolit I shot it through 5 1 gallon milk jugs lined up and it went through the plywood backer behing it. I have the energy figgures for most 22 wmr ammo and they can be exceeded by a good margin with the Cooper. I have a Lyman mold I had Buckshot shorten to eliminate the gc. The Cooper shoots this 50gn PB boolit extreamly well with full power loads making it the cheapest cartridge I have ever loaded for. Figure the cost of 50gn ww metal, 3.3gn powder, and a small primer. The brass is rather expensive at .50 ea but it seams indestructable. After I hit 50 reloads with my first batch I quit counting. At that it adds .01 per shot. Prolly about $1.25 or so for a box of 50 is that cheap enough?
I also have a Marlin 94 in 25/20. Its perty cheap to shoot too but not like the cooper. I just got a pair of old Win molds for an 87gn fnpb, one solid and one HP. I have not tried the HP yet but the solid nose plain base shoot as good as I have been able to get this gun to shoot at about 2" at 100 yards.
Most shots will cluster closer but the outsiders are 2" or just over a tad.
I was just reading an old Handloader checking the equipment list from one of the Coors shoots in Colo. I was surprise to see one fella shooting a hornet with 87gn boolits. Must be sumpthin to that ya supose?
BIC/BS

[okiecruffler]

Sounds like a 22 whisper. Wonder what twist he was using. This barrel won't be ordered until probably December. But I would like to have a few hundrd bullets ready to go before then.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Okiecruffler---I have no experience with the Bee,the Hornet,or the Jet. What I do have experience with--felix is right on. With .222 it seems to be harder to find a load it wont shoot than one that it will. Same same with 22-250. Now my .223 is a different deal. I tried everything and couldnt get it to shoot cast---but it is great with jacketed---probably my most accurate gun. I use the 95 grain RCBS and I have used it with and without the gas check---in .222 or 22-250 it does great either way. You want cheap---I'd say go .222. Small dose of Unique and they perform well. I would like to try a hornet,but don't have one.

Carpetman, I've just picked up a Mod 70 (post 64) in 22/250. Can you share some fo your successful loads?
Mick.

[carpetman]

4fingermick---I didnt wring things out to last drop,but for minute of jackrabbit 14.0 grains of IMR 4227 does the trick in 22-250 with the 58 grain RCBS bullet. Seems like Unique did well too.

[GooseGestapo]

For what you're wanting to do; (plinking level to roughly .22wmr duplication), the most economical way to go is the .22 Hornet.

I've got a pile of loads for the Lyman 225415 (mine casts to 49.5gr w/gc).

My favorite loads are with SR4759 and #2400. 4.5 to 6.0gr will give you 1,500-2,000fps and good accuracy. I've also had good luck with Unique and BlueDot, but they don't give as consistent accuracy when thrown from a powder measure at these low weights. YMMV.

I've also enjoyed many w/o gas checks, tumble lubed and unsized over 3.0gr of Bullseye. Roughly duplicates a HV .22lr.

Killed a lot of backyard nuisences with a .22cal airgun pellet over a CCI magnum Small rifle primer. Cheapest way to go in a reloaded CF. hand seat the pellet into an unsized case flush with case mouth. Best if used with a short bbl such as T/C contender pistol (what I had in mid'70s in college- killed a LOT of pigeons off power line beside my apt. bldg. -enough that a "dead pigeon epidemic" article hit the local news paper- had to cut back on the target practice !!!)

I've been reloading the .22Hornet since I was in college in the mid'70's and have usually had one ever since. My current one, a Ruger m77/22 KBZ (24" heavy bbl StainlessSteel w/laminated stock) actually shoots better with cast bullets except for a single "red bullet" load of Sierra 40gr HP over 12.5gr of Hod.LilGun.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Gollllllllleee! I've up and done it again, saw a cheap BSA 222 bolt gun and got them to put it aside for me. Ill be back there in a week and I will give it a good going over. Apart from a Fireball, I think I've got all the common 22 centrefires now, 22Hornet, 222 (maybe), 223, 22/250 and 220 Swift. I've got so many rifles to work loads out for in my upcoming retirement, I will have to live till I'm 90 to get it all done, :-) Mick

[okiecruffler]

Went pricing brass today and the hornet does seem to be the logical choice. Brass for the 218 is just almost 2X the cost. But I've played with the hornet before and had all kinds of problems with brass seperation and neck wrinkling. I can trace it all back to buying a batch of "once shot" brass, but it left enough of an impression. Good thing about the hornet is barrels are just about everywhere, where as you just don't see alot of 218 barrels running around. Could always go custom, but I hate to spend my custom barrrel money on a cheap plinker idea. Right now my hot project is casting for my 30 herrett, dies should be here in a few days. But once that's done I guess I'll pick up a 22 mold and see what all the fuss is about.

[felix]

Brass for the 221, 222 can easily be manufactured from 223 brass, giving you the strongest brass possible as a result. As an accuracy bonus, you more than likely will have to neck turn the brass to your chamber. The additional cost for neck turning equipment (hand hold type only, please) will be your only downside in terms of cost. It is a lot of fun, though, to use different military headstamps when making brass, say 50 rounds of each flavor, and compare them on target. ... felix

[Four Fingers of Death]

I think the secret with the Hornet, is to not push the envelope, keep the loads within the parameters and you will see reasonable case life.

My mate used to start the brass by fireforming with little cellophane washers on the rim, to force te case to headspace on the shoulder. I am determined to try this one day (but so far, obviously not determined enough).

EDIT: I forgot, I went out and bought an old 222 yesterday, now I have a 22Hornet, 222, 223, 22/250 and 220Swift, I should be able to do some meaningful comparisons now. :-)

Mick

[drinks]

A friend who is into Bees likes to start with .32- 20 cases, says they last longer.

[Bullshop]

4fingermick
Thats right, dont try to make a hornet into a 222 cuz it ain one. If you keep pressures down case life is very good. Keep them trimmed though for top accuracy. I spin them on a Lee zip trim about every third load. A hornet fits nicely between the 22wmr and a 222. If you realy need more velocity than about 2300 fps you will do better with a 222/223.
Sure the book says the hornet will go faster and it will but thats where folks get into trouble with it trying to get every last fps possible. You dont buy a hornet for speed, if you do you made a mistake.
BIC/BS

[carpetman]

A friend who is into Bees likes to start with .32- 20 cases, says they last longer.
That sounds like a honey of a deal.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Despite the trouble, the Hornet is a sweet little rifle. Actually I loved all of the 22 centrefires I have had over the years and would recommend any of them. Don't buy a Hornet if you will be hotrodding it, nothing but grief. Operate it at the right velocity, nothing but joy! Mick.

[Bullshop]

Despite the trouble, the Hornet is a sweet little rifle. Actually I loved all of the 22 centrefires I have had over the years and would recommend any of them. Don't buy a Hornet if you will be hotrodding it, nothing but grief. Operate it at the right velocity, nothing but joy! Mick.

AH-MEN brother nothing but joy!!! And cheep joy too!
Defender of the Hornet
BIC/BS

[Slowpoke]

AS far as I am concerned the Lee Collet neck size die is the secrete to long case life with the Hornet. I bought my first and only Hornet cases in the mid 90's,(200 Win.) I am still using those cases today. Case failure has been ZERO ! The load I have used the most is 12.5 AA 1680 and the 40 gr Sierra HP. I like the Hornet.

Good luck

[HORNET]

OKIECRUFFLER,
If you don't mind forming cases, things get more interesting. For capacity near the .218 Bee's, you can look at the 5.7 Johnson (.22 Carbine). If you want smaller, there's the .22 Squirrel, .22-6-45 (or 55, depending on which throat) but that still deals with .22 Hornet brass. You might also look at the 5.7x28(?) FN case.:twisted:
As far as .22 Hornet case life, there are several problems. Most domesticaly produced Hornets seem to have oversized chambers, most conventional dies run to the small size, and the brass that I've seen has all been very thin ( I've got some old R-P cases that have a .006/.007 in. neck thickness). This results in the brass work-hardening quickly. I find it necessary to anneal case necks about every 5 reloads or necks start splitting longitudinally. Of course, these cases are older than I will admit and are on their third rifle. :Fire:
As I recall, Jon Sundra had Clymer run him up a set of actual match-dimensioned reamers several years ago that would be worth checking on if you're building one and some have reported that CZ chambers seem snug. Kimber and Cooper both seem to be about right from reports that I've read. Federal and Hornady are loading the Hornet, which may provide better brass.
I am fond of the Hornet, as you can tell, but the little booger does provide its challenges. He##, if it was easy, everybody would use it.:bigsmyl2:

[okiecruffler]

That little 5.7X28 is an interesting thing ain't it? I guess I'll have to go with the hornet, just alot easier to get brass. Might have it reemed to K-hornet (I've got a set of dies around here somewhere) since I've heard that helps case life abit. For as mild as I plan to load it case life may not be as big a deal as I'm expecting.

[Bret4207]

Starlines 32WCF brass IS better than run of the mill Win or Rem IMHO. I haven't sized any down to 25WCF or 218 Bee specs yet. Any of the rounds based on the 32WCF are real sweeties as far as I'm concerned. As for brass life- well the 22 H may be half the cost, but the 218 B brass has a real shoulder and should last longer than the Hornet. It's a trade off.

[LIMPINGJ]

I have been watching this discussion with some interest as I am looking to purchase a rifle in one of the small .22cf chamberings. I have been well served by the 2 CZ rifles I have and plan to purchase another as their 527 is chambered in the 3 .22cf rounds that most meet my desires. As I am looking to the future which will involve retirement and the resulting need to conserve funds I am looking for hunting accuracy to 100 yards for small to medium game with more power than the .22rf rounds. I have an old Sako in 222 mag so the 222 Rem. seems to close. The second round of interest is the 221 Fireball which uses about 1/3 more powder for simular velocity as the Hornet which is the 3rd round I am considering. The Hornet is the way I am leaning for cheapest shooting with the powder level to do the job. I would go with the Fireball if others experience has shown a greater chance of acheving the accuracy level (head shots) for rabbit and other small game to 100 yards, but at the cost of 1/3 more powder. I am open to all sugestions so please share you experiences with these rounds.
Thanks
Jim

[trk]

Jim -

I have 3 rifles in .22 caliber that I use cast with.

.22 Hornet - Carl Walther with double set triggers. Outstanding with J, haven't had the time to work up loads to my satisfaction (my fault, not the iron).

.221 Fireball - Remington XP100 in rifle stock with Douglas XX 21" stainless bbl. OUTSTANDING!

.223 in CZ 527 American - another OUTSTANDING shooter.

For me the 221 is the ticket - easier to load than the Hornet and still very small powder capacity case.

When I want more zip there's the .22-250.

[carpetman]

LIMPINGJ---Seeing as how you already have .22 center fires and want another CZ---get the .20 cal. I dont know if my thoughts would be the same in centerfires,but 20 cal(5mm)is my favorite in air guns. To me its the best of both worlds between the .177 and the .22's. Now why would I want you to get one of those? Well I'm considering one and would like more reports---now I didnt say you would be a guinea pig.

[Bass Ackward]

For those that are thinking about what to do, consider that there are three styles for shooting cast bullets. One is at standard cast pressures with fast powders that result in lower velocities. The second style is to raise bullet hardness to maximum levels and raise pressures closer to jacketed levels until the mix fails. The third is to use soft(er) lead at standard cast pressures, but use slower than standard for cartridge / bullet weight powder and rely on a longer barrel to burn it.

The hornet case is so small that you basically lose the third option. Add to that the fact that throats can be all over the place depending on what you buy and where you rifle was made in the reamer life cycle, and I simply chose to go elsewhere. You can go over board with case volume too and then you lose option 1. Where does that magic happen in a 22 bore? Hard to tell. I say around 15-17 grains as a 218 Mashburn works for all three. The disadvantage with it is that it is an improved case design with straight side walls which make option 1 difficult at the low end. But I have 22LRs for this level anyway.

Accuracy is where you find it. It can be found with all three shooting styles at all different velocity levels depending on bore condition and harmonic levels of your barrel. But bullet design may become key in the third shooting style if weak designs or bore fouling becomes a problem.

[LIMPINGJ]

This is for any of you that are taking the Hornet afield for small game. I have a new CZ527 in 22Hornet and now need to decide which glass to ride on top. Bullshop and others have posted several loads I am going to try but there has been no mention of the scope you have on your rifle. To fit the small size of this rifle a compact scope would fit the size of the rifle but I am wanting to hear what others recomend. I have fixed powers in the 2 to 4 powder range and one 6 power on my 222Mag. What do you think the power most fits the Hornet's range for small game use? Thanks for your ideas.
Jim

[carpetman]

LIMPINGJ--What town in Texas? I think the best bargain in scopes is Leupold. Why? They stand behind them. I have observed many used Leupolds bring more on EBAY than what the seller would have originally paid. They make some compacts 2x-7x and 3x-9x. Either should serve you well. My overall favorite is their compact 3x-9x with EFR (Extended Focus Range)it has adjustable objective and will focus down to 10 meters. This is crucial on an air rifle. I use it on a spring air rifle which has double whammy recoil and is harder on scopes than even a magnum center fire. No problem with the scope--nice clear optics. This scope is over $300 but the cheapest I've seen a used one go on EBAY was $275,so it's not like you waste money.

[LIMPINGJ]

Carpetman I am just North of the worlds largest junk sale aka First Monday in Canton. I agree with you on the Leupold. I have one variable scope and it is the Leupold Compact 2X7 Rim Fire model. I may just watch the SWFA Sample List till I fine another Compact 2X7. I have never seen the 3X9 Compact in person will have to look for one to check it out.

[Bullshop]

A 2x7 compact is about perfect. I like the Leup. At times a fixed power of 4x or higher is too much. If you hunt with it like I do you will get shots from just a few feet away when you wont find your target in a 4x but that 2x will be fine. Then you will get shots to the outer limit of the hornet which is about 200yds by my ruler and that 7x will come in handy trying to pick you spot. Our hornets get fed only boolits but some of the newer light weights in the 30"s gn that get up to 3000 fps from the hornet may stretch that range a bit. For me a 45gn boolit at about 2300 fps get everything I expect from a hornet. Short answer 2x7 Leupold compact.
BIC/BS

[carpetman]

LIMPINGJ---On the compact 3x-9x Leupold they make I think 3 models. I think only one has the EFR and it's in gloss finish. They make a matte and I think a silver one. The EFR may not be needed on center fire--but is a must on an air rifle scope. I have a few 2x-7x one is on the Win mod 88 in .308 that I gave my grandson. Good scope. He has shot the rifle 7 times--2 practice shots and a 10 pointer that was down for the count was given a finishing shot. Two 8 pointers and an axis deer with the other 3 shots. Guess the scope is working ok. With my 3x-9x I can read a business card from across my yard. After I asked,I saw that it said Emory Texas.

[hornetguy]

Greetings everyone...
This is my first post here... I visit other boards regularly, but am just getting on board here. I like what I've seen here so far, and I hope I can learn a lot from the rather large knowledge base.

I've read this thread with interest, as I shoot the K-Hornet out of a Contender carbine.
I mostly shoot jacketed (condom?) but have experimented a little bit with the Lyman 415. I cast them out of straight linotype, and have had moderately good results. Not as good as my V-Max or TNT loads, but they show a lot of promise.
If you are concerned with neck wrinkling, or other case problems, I've found the best "fix" is to use the Lee collet neck sizer die, and neck size only. Once the cases are fireformed to your chamber, neck sizing is all you need, in bolt guns.
The TC platform really needs to be full length sized each time, and I've had no problems with the K version. I have some cases that have been loaded probably 5-6 times with no evidence of imminent failure.
The Hornet is a marvelously efficient little cartridge that is easy on the ears when in the field, and extremely easy on the wallet. 13-14gr of powder giving you 3000fps with a 40gr bullet? Most of the Hornets I've seen will easily do around an inch at 100yds, and many will do MUCH better.
That's a tough combination to beat....

[Dale53]

If you are going to use a Hornet for small game, you WILL need a scope with an adjustable objective. The least expensive type is an air rifle scope. With the light recoil of the Hornet the scope should last forever. If you are affluent, by all means use a Leupold. If you are not, there are many decent scopes that work quite well and cost very little. My first choice in a very good, relatively inexpensive, small game scope is Simmons.

I recently added an air rifle scope to my Contender .32 H&R Mag Carbine that I will be using for a small game rifle. It is fairly compact, has an adjustable objective (small game is typically taken at 25-50 yards and I find misses due to parallax to be unacceptable). When I hold on a squirrels head I expect to hit the head, etc.

Dale53

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I guess it's time for me to put in a plug for the .223 Remington and CB's. I have had some success with a Savage in .223 with its' 1:9 twist up to 2250fps...like sub moa groups at 100 yards using 4227 and 1680. I am ashamed to admit I bought them from an outfit called Fusilier Bullets in Utah. 55gr, .660"oal, semi-spitzer (which is usually a recipe for hour-of-angle groups). One day I went to order some more and the letter was returned marked "moved left no forwarding address". They shot well in my 219 Donaldson Wasp as well, but that's a DST Mauser 50's era Benchrest rifle that shoots everything under 1/2" with copper tubed bullets. We are talking Group Buy on a 70gr design Lee did some time back. That bullet in a .223 would be a great plinking rifle, maybe out to 200 yards up thru the size of coyotes.

JMHO, your mileage may vary...

Rich

[okiecruffler]

Well I got the mould, sizer and gas checks on the way, just no barrel to shoot them thru. Guess that'll have to wait until next month.

[Jack Stanley]

Welcome to the forum Hornetguy . It's good to hear of such good results with the hornet . I had a deal on a hornet in a number three Ruger but passed because of prior experience with the model and it was a hornet . :roll: rats ... I hate it when I find good info to late to make a deal happen .
All's well that ends well though . I was looking for a woodchuck rifle to replace the 700 varmint special I sold to my friend when his 22/250 tube died . While looking the hornet came by ... and a single shot T/C rifle in .223 but I kept searching . One day after a very bad gun show I wandered into an overpriced gunshop and saw a rifle on the rack that was there for a commision sale . It was an unfired Kimber , left hand in .223 that was one of the first ones made I think . I think I'd have been just as happy if it was a K-hornet a standard or a triple duece , it's nice to have the bolt on my side dontcha know :-D

Jack

[Greg]

My experiences with different 22 center-fires and cast boolits.

22 k-Hornet

CZ 527 / Weaver 2-7x

RP brass; WSP primer; 12.2 grains 2015 BR; Lyman 225415 @ 12 BHN; 2150 fps; @ 1½" 100 yards

WW brass; WSP primer; 10.7 grains RL-7; Lyman 225415 @ 12 BHN; 1900 fps; @ 2" 100 yards

RP brass; WSP primer; 12.0 grains 2015 BR; NEI 22-54 GC @ 12 BHN; 2120 fps; @ 1½" 100 yards


222 Remington

Remington 788 / Tasco 4-12x AO

WW brass; 7½ primer; 17.6 grains IMR 4895; NEI 22-54 GC @ 22 BHN; 2150 fps; @ 1½" 100 yards

FC brass; 7½ primer; 14.0 grains RL-7; NEI 22-54 GC @ 22 BHN; 2790 fps; @ 1¼" 100 yards

FC brass; 7½ primer; 22.0 grains; W760; NEI 22-54 GC @ 22 BHN; 2830 fps; @ 1½" 100 yards


223 Remington

Winchester M70 Heavy Varmint / Tasco 6-20x AO

WW brass; 7½ primer; 14.0 grains AA-2230c; Lyman 225415 @ 18 BHN; 1950 fps; @ ¾" 100 yard

WW brass; 7½ primer; 14.0 grains AA-2230c; NEI 22-54 GC@ 14 BHN; 1880 fps; @ 1½" 100yrd

WW brass; 7½ primer; 14.0 grains AA-223c; Lyman 225462 @ 12 BHN; 1930 fps; @ 1¼" 100 yrd



as you approach 1900+ fps velocity a higher BHN alloy becomes important.

I’ve used a 92-6-2 LAT alloy to good success (magnum shot+ tin) but it is a very pain to flux the graphite out.

Now, I use wheel weights heat treated in the oven and water quenched. I air dry them on an old towel and gas check and lube / size within the first 24 hours. At first, I seated the gas check and sized before the heat treatment...but I noticed some of the gas checks would twist on the boolit and occasionally I would see a gas check departing in the scope, well actually I would pick up a golden streak in the scope and get a opened group and deducted it was a gas check leaving on it’s own course.

I changed to seating the gas checks after the heat treatment and get better groups. I also have better groups with the gator checks. My first 22 cast efforts were with Lyman gas checks they were ok; I had a box of RCBS and they were excellent; I used Hornady gas checks 1st box was good, second box wasn’t worth, well they were no count...crooked, inconsistent not worth much. I’ve used a 100 or 2 of the gator checks and their excellent. I really like the quality of them.

[Yance]

Squirrel load;

.22 Hornet

WW cases, neck sized half the length then expanded with RCBS .224
2.5 gr WW 231
Primer WSP
Lyman 225438 w/ LBT Blue.

Velocity around 1250 and "cloverleafs" @ 50 yd out of my 21" Contender carbine.
Took a year+ of messing with diffrent bullets/powders to get this one to do what I wanted.

Most any bullet will shoot in it starting around 1850 FPS, but I wanted a "reloadable 22 LR"

[LIMPINGJ]

I just got a CZ 527 in 22Hornet and am gathering the rest of items to get it ready to shoot. The question I have is which brand of dies seem to work best for loading cast in the Hornet? If you have a favorite set or combination of brands for loading the Hornet please let me know what seems to work best.
Thanks

[hornetguy]

I just got a CZ 527 in 22Hornet and am gathering the rest of items to get it ready to shoot. The question I have is which brand of dies seem to work best for loading cast in the Hornet? If you have a favorite set or combination of brands for loading the Hornet please let me know what seems to work best.
Thanks

As far as dies go, I've tried lots of brands, RCBS, Lyman, Lee, even some old C&H... for the best quality, I've found, go with Redding. Their dies just seem to be more finely finished... just better quality. I still use all the others, but if "quality" is what you want, go Redding.
That having been said, it's hard to beat the Lee Collet neck sizing die for minimal case stress.
For loading cast boolits.. you probably need to get the Lyman M die (I think that's what it's called) which expands the neck slightly larger than normal dies, and allows the seating of cast boolits without shaving lead off the sides as you seat them.
If you are going to feed them thru the magazine of the CZ, you will want a moderately tight crimp, to avoid moving the boolit around during the feed cycle.

I think the ideal setup would be the Lee Collet neck sizer, and the Lyman M die, with almost any of the crimp dies. I think I'd stay away from the Lee factory crimp die with cast boolits... I'm not sure that the side squeezing wouldn't deform the lead slugs somewhat... and ANY non-uniformity of those little boolits will show up as fliers and large groups.
YMMV, just my opinions....

[Greg]

The question I have is which brand of dies seem to work best for loading cast in the Hornet?

If you have a favorite set or combination of brands for loading the Hornet please let me know what seems to work best.
Thanks

I use RCBS dies along with a Lyman ‘M’ die, usually the RCBS neck sizing die.

I’ve never crimped a rifle round containing a cast boolit. I shoot the Rem 788 in the CBA postal match, and all rounds are fed from the clip. It might not be the most accurate, but I’ve not done any testing on it either. The CZ I normally shoot from the clip due to the claw extractor.

I shoot a .2275 boolit that drops out of the mould at .228, I had Buckshot make me 2 ‘M’ die spuds that are @ .225 / .229 accuracy has improved enough to measure. Normal consensus is 2 thousands under boolit diameter for brass springback and 1 thousand over to get it started in the case.

First I bought a ‘M’ die and the next winter I had Walt at NEI cut me a (22-54 gc) mould @ .228, the next year a neck sizing die. I’d like to have a LBT 50 grain mould and a Wilson bench rest bullet seating die for each caliber, But I do live on a budget. a boys got to eat once in a while.

I bought the M 70 last year from a friend, and haven’t shot it since I bought it from him. It will shoot, or at least he could do wonders with it.

[downunderrunner]

just wondering if there's any experience here regarding the .22WCF? i know it's an oldy and a bit of an oddity, but i've been looking to bring back some old rifles and cartridges, in australia, just for something different!

[JeffinNZ]

I'd go K Hornet for fear that Bee brass will be hard to obtain.

[Digital Dan]

The Hornet is a pain in the backside. Take this target for example. 100 yards, no wind, Lyman 225438, 50/50 Lino/WW, WW SRP and a dash of 2400 for fire form loads. They are worse than having 25 wives I tell ya. My soul is lost after only the first three shots with this load.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/IMG_4111_zpslyspa3bp.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/IMG_4111_zpslyspa3bp.jpg.html)

[Harter66]

5 -6 gr of Unique in a 222 is pretty cheap shooting in my book .

I have spent too much time mentally tinkering with a 25 ACP necked to 22 for a CF 22lr . Same length as 22 LR just enough bigger to get a spp in and with a mag primer and a RB it might pass for a bb cap.

The 5.7 intrigues me also. But where to get such a tiny little rifle ?

I'm working both a 222 and 223 at the moment with no problems getting what I want from them and surprisingly much more.

[MT Chambers]

My .218 Mashburn Bee is the Bee's knees, the capacity is perfect for cast bullets in my CPA 44 1/2. For rimless bolt actions I like the .221 Fireball.