Is it worth it for me to start casting?

[theTastyCat]

HI all -

I've been reloading for several years now and love it. I'm not a tremendously high-volume shooter, but I enjoy the process and custom-tailored loads which reloading gives me access to.

For quite a while now I've had in the back of my mind to think about casting. It would give me tremendous satisfaction to be able to shoot greater quantities without being nagged by the cost of bullets. However, I'm not sure that the type and quantity of shooting I do justified the investment of time and money.

Much of my regular shooting is done either through gas guns or with suppressors, for both of which I understand lead is a no-no. Outside of these, I shoot 1911s (.45), 357 SIG, .44 Mag, and 9mm.

Here's the kicker: all but the .44 are regular carry guns, and I carry JHPs. I know that is it a BIG no-no to shoot jacketed after lead without cleaning between - does this mean that I'd have to clean all my pistols after each range session, no matter how little they were shot? (Don't get me wrong, I am not in the habit of letting dirty guns sit, but sometimes I only run two or three mags through a particular pistol during one range trip.)

I really, really, really like the idea of casting, but I just want to be sure it's worth me getting into. Many thanks for your wisdom.

[Jim]

Ammunition prices being what they are, there's no way I could afford to shoot factory ammo. .45-70 ammo is close to $2 a pop now. The final cost of one of my loaded rounds is about 10 cents.
I just got a mold and some brass to start loading .44 mags for a young fella. I bought a box of ammo for him for Christmas. $30 for 25 rounds. I can make 25 rounds for about 6 to 8 cents a piece.
You will have the costs of initial investment if you're just getting started. I've been accumulating my stuff for decades. If you disregard the investment costs, you can see drastic savings in your ammunition costs.

[theTastyCat]

Yeah, there's just no denying that it saves a LOT of coin.

So even if I can only cast for a portion of what I regularly shoot, I would be able to make a LOT of complete rounds for basically the cost of powder and primer - wow. That's an incredibly lot more .45 ACP, .44 Mag and 9mm than I'd be able to make for the same money :)

I know lead's not ideal for 357 SIG, but do any of you do it?

Many thanks - this looks like a really great forum. And if anybody's thinking of getting rid of a bunch of casting stuff, let me know :)

[Jim]

That's a caliber I know nothing about. Hang on, though, somebody's gonna' answer you here soon.

[georgewxxx]

HI all -
Much of my regular shooting is done either through gas guns or with suppressors, for both of which I understand lead is a no-no. Outside of these, I shoot 1911s (.45), 357 SIG, .44 Mag, and 9mm.

Here's the kicker: all but the .44 are regular carry guns, and I carry JHPs. I know that is it a BIG no-no to shoot jacketed after lead without cleaning between - does this mean that I'd have to clean all my pistols after each range session, no matter how little they were shot? (Don't get me wrong, I am not in the habit of letting dirty guns sit, but sometimes I only run two or three mags through a particular pistol during one range trip.)

You might want to into the archives here at Cast Boolits by doing a search on cleaning. Old ideas like that are hard to get rid of once some scribe get it in print. Most of these learned shooters here will tell you they alternate between cast & condom without any fuss what so ever. In any case, The only way your going to satisfy yourself on that question is try it with one gun at a time. I think I know what the results will be.

Maybe you should purchase a few boolits from someone before any investment in moulds, sizing dies and such. Above all read the stickies and Castpicks at the bottom of this page here to get some in site as to what you up against....Geo

[MtGun44]

.357 Sig can't be any higher pressure or velocity than .357 magnum. Unless the barrel or
chamber design is somehow odd or unusual, or has dimensions that throws some sort of
monkey wrench into the deal, I'd expect that you could use a .356-124-TC Lee sized to
about .358 in one of those.

You will need to slug the bore to see what size you need, but if you don't want to, try to find
a source of about 10-20 of these boolits (not the tumble lubed version) sized to .358 and see
if you can get good results without buying a mold or other fiddling around. If you succeed, you
can then get the mold and get set up. Of course, you need to consider the quantity of ammo
that you will be using.

I normally drive Keith 358429 or Lyman 358477 or Lee conventional lube 358-158-RF
(LBT style) to around 1400 or so fps (book values are over 1500, but I doubt I get that
in a 6" revolver) at full magnum pressures with near max loads of H110/W296. Accuracy
is often near or at 1" at 25 yds in multiple pistols and leading is nil.

Bill

[WHITETAIL]

ThetastyCat, Welcome to the forum!
I would ask someone here to sell you a few boolits first.
That way you can see for yourself if you want to make
lead boolits.:Fire:

[theTastyCat]

Great - thanks for all the excellent advice.

I think I'll spend tomorrow cruising tire shops - after reading around a little bit I'm already in full-blow noob wheel weight panic :(

[WILCO]

Here's some links you might want to look at regarding the .357 SIG and lead bullets:


http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=2046262259

http://www.reloadammo.com/357sig.htm

http://www.handguninfo.com/Archive/www.Pete-357.com/357.bullets.htm

Ask questions, do the reasearch and then decide if you want to play the casting game.

[Wayne Smith]

You are likely to start with one caliber anyway so I would strongly suggest that yoy start with either the .45 or the .44. The .45 is a low pressure, low intensity cartridge and therefore very forgiving. The .44 can be loaded from very slow to very fast. It would give you the opportunity to experiment with different alloys and with gas check designs. Once you have mastered these two you are ready to move on to greater challenges with a lot more confidence and experience.

[Canuck Bob]

I asked myself the same question. I do not have the time or inclination to scrounge for disappearing WWs and such. The cost of the required gear seemed high specially here in Canada were all shooting supplies are at a premium.

I calculated my cost of setup, worked out lead costs of Magnum Shot plus roofing lead to alloy for $2 per pound and then calculated gas checks or not. With a premium mold from LBT, store bought lead, and simple gear like a Lee push through sizer die and pan lubing the payback compared to factory bullets was very quick for one rifle. That is a single bullet mold, one powder, and loading one established load within the range of the simpler cast bullet parameters.

In fact my bullets work out to a such a good deal I'm upgrading my shopping list to include the convenience of an electric ladle furnace. I don't have my notes with me but 120 grain bullets were pennies and about a dime with GC's. By staying with plain base I can shoot a 32-20 cheaper than 22 WMR. A hornet worked out to 22 LR and a 444 Marlin was cheap even with stout GC loads.

Of course the fly in the ointment is when one starts collecting molds, experimenting with powder collecting or load development as some call it, with alloy development for 2500 fps. Which sounds like a ton of fun and a decent hobby, then a guy can start paper patching! But it can be very cheap to start out.

[thx997303]

After factoring in equipment costs, my first 6K rounds of 9mm cost 5 cents per round.

Once the initial setup cost was amortized, I had to get into other calibers.

My first 2400 rounds of 45-70 cost 11 cents per round after factoring in the cost of the dies and mold in addition to the regular powder, and primer costs. Not to mention adding in the cost of the brass, which should be divided out over the life of the brass.

I bought a few other molds. Figure another $140 worth.

Since I'll be using this newest 200 lbs of alloy for 9mm only, should get around 10k boolits out of it.

Figuring new molds, primers, estimated powder usage, I should be around 5 cents per round once again.

Don't save money my rear end.

Average price of 1k cheap rounds of 9mm is $200

That's $2k per 10k rounds.

I'm doin' 10k for about $600

I'd have to buy a lot of stuff to lose that $1400 difference.

Yes in the long run, you save money. Just not initially.

[Daryl]

Good topic. One thing about the equipment is that it lasts a very long time. So, it really could be "amortized" over 100,000 rounds or more. Also, used equipment seems to sell for at least 50% to 75% of new cost - so it does not decrease in market value much and you could get a big chunk of your money back if you decided it is not for you. I've done a bunch of figuring and really think that I "save" about $15 to $20 per hour of labor I put into all my reloading activities, including casting. Now, to pay $15 to $20, I'd have to make $20 to $30 by the time taxes get taken out. So, I figure it's like having a second job paying me $20 to $30 an hour to use for my sport. But, at least this is a job that is really, really fun. So, even factoring in the "opportunity cost" of my own labor - I definitely say - yes it is a financial benefit. But, then, there is the HUGE intangible benefit of availability and the fun and knowledge of being able to do it. I've been at it about 3 years and spend a large amount of time reading and researching the topic. There are several good books - some of them contradict each other on the finer points - but they are very helpful. Lee, Lyman, & Veral Smith I found most helpful. This forum is a HUGE source of valuable information. The RCBS book is ok, but mostly an overview of the info in the others. I also recommend getting what you can afford to start - but trade up as you find it beneficial. Like all other tools - you will find great value in higher priced tools if you maximize their potential. I agree with an earlier post that you may want to start with the 45 and 44. I started with the 9MM which is one of the most frustrating pistol rounds. Now I also do the 357 Sig - but want to revisit that in a few months.

[Blammer]

I think if you look around you'll find several who shoot cast with a 'gas gun' the Garand's come to mind and the AR's. The gas gun part should not be a problem.

Supressors. I don't know about, may want to enquire or do a search here.

I know of a few who alternate between cast and copper bullets and have no ill effects. I have a friend whom I give lots of cast boolits to to shoot. He loves them, and he does no special cleaning between shooting one or the other. Heck he loads jacketed then shoots some cast then some more jackted, still gets good accuracy.

I'd pick one caliber and start casting for that. You'll learn a lot and save a bunch. (you must only buy ONE mould though :D )

[30CAL-TEXAN]

I know absolutely nothing about suppressors but I do shoot cast and jacketed out of my Garand in the same range session.

I think that as long as you can develop a load that does not deposit large amounts of lead in your bore you won't have any problems with your gas guns.

[Harter66]

Casting is the next step in handloading . Based on my own trials the very short neck of the 357 Sig I think will give you fits with boolits much over 90gr,that being based on all of the hrs spent reading here not any personal expirence. Here's the thing that is best about getting into casting is all of the boolit choices,weights and shapes as well as the cost . I shoot sorted range scrap ,free flashing,free wheel wieghts and every other free lead gob I can get my paws on,short of actually snagging wheel weights in parking lots. I spend around $20 per 5000 boolits and I've got a bucket full of mangled jackets ,junk cases and the like that will pay that back ,if I ever get it cashed out.

[Moonie]

I shoot cast in my AR with no issues, and rounds cost me a hair over $.10 each...

I also cast for 45, 30-06, 8x57 and 400 corbon.

One of the 2 30-06's is a gas gun, no issues at all, but I do wish that son had gotten a bolt.

[HeavyMetal]

First welcome to he site!

Next even if the only round you cast for is the 45 auto you will never be sorry!

The easist way to cast for a nooby is use the simplist of equipment to get started

The big expense will be a good ladle: RCBS or Lyman is the way to go here, the Lee is a great strirring stick and nothing more!

A small cast iron pot. Look at thrift stores or purchase new at any local big box Hardware or grocery oulet. You don't need to hold more than 4 or 5 pounds.

Get a Lee 2 cavity 90348 or 90234 These are both great designs and will work well for you, I prefer the 90348 and have a pair of 6 bangers for feeding my 45's.

Do a search for Leementing these molds for long service life.

Go to the bottom of the page and contact Lar's for a stick or two of Carnuba Red

Now the simplist heat source to use is the kitchen stove, which is also the fastest way to get your backside chucked out of the house.

I will suggest that you check with SWMBO before you do anything "creative" with the stove.

Alternate heat sources are Colman camp stove, the little propane jobs set up for one pan, this will get your alloy plenty hot and allow you to make up 100 or so to try put.


Let me inject a safety note here: This stuff gets hot! Take precautions gloves safety glass's keep kids and pets away and make sure the heat source you are using is secured against accidental tipping.

One you get some boolits cast get a top off of one of those cookie tins that everyone seems to give away this time of year, set you boolits up in it and use a heat gun to melt your boolit lube around the boolits in the pan.

This is called pan lubing and is an excellent beginners lube system. You may have noticed I have not mentioned tumble lubeing. I detest it and the boolits designed for it but you might try it as other here don't seem to mind the mess, or the leading.

One more thing: "mike" your boolits before lubing. The best deal is .001 over bore diameter, for most 45's this will be .452 diameter. If you boolits are this diameter as cast your good to go if not, say .454, then sizing is needed.

A nice push through system is also avaliable from Lee that screw right into a standard reloading press. It does not lube it only sizes so you will need to do the pan lube first before pushing them through the sizing die.

The whole set up, if you don't have to buy a camp stove, shouldn't be $50.00.

Keep us in the loop on how your first time works out.

[mdi]

HI all -

I've been reloading for several years now and love it. I'm not a tremendously high-volume shooter, but I enjoy the process and custom-tailored loads which reloading gives me access to.

For quite a while now I've had in the back of my mind to think about casting. It would give me tremendous satisfaction to be able to shoot greater quantities without being nagged by the cost of bullets. However, I'm not sure that the type and quantity of shooting I do justified the investment of time and money.

Much of my regular shooting is done either through gas guns or with suppressors, for both of which I understand lead is a no-no. Outside of these, I shoot 1911s (.45), 357 SIG, .44 Mag, and 9mm.

Here's the kicker: all but the .44 are regular carry guns, and I carry JHPs. I know that is it a BIG no-no to shoot jacketed after lead without cleaning between - does this mean that I'd have to clean all my pistols after each range session, no matter how little they were shot? (Don't get me wrong, I am not in the habit of letting dirty guns sit, but sometimes I only run two or three mags through a particular pistol during one range trip.)

I really, really, really like the idea of casting, but I just want to be sure it's worth me getting into. Many thanks for your wisdom.
Get a copy of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, then I'd say start slow. Get one mold, a dipper/ladle, a steel pot and use a coleman stove (or if you live alone, use the kitchen stove). Buy a small amount of already smelted/cleaned lead, Wheel Weights are pretty good for general casting, and give it a try. If you enjoy casting with these limited resources, go bigger. If it's too much of a pain, you're not out much. I'd also suggest you start with your revolvers. I've read of more problems shooting cast in a 9mm than any revolver. But my 1911 and P90 in .45 ACP will shoot just about any thing that will feed!

The Lee system of tumble lubing and push-through sizing is inexpensive and works quite well, or you'll have to get a luber-sizer or pan lube.

BTW, I don't pay a lot of attention to the "no-nos" from forum "experts" or the "gunshop gurus", I read a lot, record what I'm doing, and use common sense. (A lot of the "stuff" from the "experts" doesn't prove itself to me.)

Just go slow, be safe, and enjoy one of the most satisfying hobbies connected to shooting...

[Bass Ackward]

Yeah, there's just no denying that it saves a LOT of coin.


If this is were my motivating factor, then I am not sure I would start today. But all my lead (so far) is free.

If you want to look at a cost basis, then you need to price things in terms of boxes of bullets.

Pick out your equipment and price it out. Then divide that amount by the cost of a box of bullets in that caliber. Then ask yourself how long does it take you to use that box of bullets. Two boxes of bullets and most Lee 6 cavity molds are free. You can amortize everything in this manner.

The more calibers you shoot, the cheaper or the faster your break even. Then think about time.

I can double my money on most of my items and still have someone think they are getting a steal.

Stuff that became free long ago, .... and it ain't eatin nothin.

My cutoff is three boxes of bullets a year for a decision to buy a mold. Once bought though, I can hold till I am SURE I am out of the sport. Same with my guns.

[captaint]

I recently calculated the cost of one box of 45ACP. $3.10. This is not paying for lead, just the primers, powder and cost of brass bought used at 20 loadings per case. I'll probably get mor than that. As previously said, this does not include the cost of equipment.
I did get a laugh though when Blammer said "you must buy only one mold, though". Now that's just funny. You're the man, Darrell!!! enjoy Mike