Luggage + Primers + Baggage Handler = CNN Article

[Doc_Stihl]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/12/28/florida.flight.baggage/index.html?hpt=Sbin

Woops.

[3006guns]

You'll notice there's no explanation of HOW these primers were packed. I can't see this happening if the primers were in their proper container, i.e. the factory carton. What I CAN see is a possible media uproar against reloading components, and I sure hope I'm wrong..........

In either case, the guy is a fool for doing it.

[Matt3357]

Actually is says they were in a bag:


Hundreds of the primer caps were in a bag that ignited, and all of them went off after the first one did, Leverock said.

Never would have had a problem if they were in their proper container, but then they might have drawn suspicion in the X-Ray machine. I wonder why he was flying primers to Jamaica. Can they not buy them there? Could be going to sell them? Oh and another thing, how hard would the baggage handler have had to handle that bag in order to set them off? Would want something fragile being handled by them.

Matt

[mike in co]

Actually is says they were in a bag:



Never would have had a problem if they were in their proper container, but then they might have drawn suspicion in the X-Ray machine. I wonder why he was flying primers to Jamaica. Can they not buy them there? Could be going to sell them? Oh and another thing, how hard would the baggage handler have had to handle that bag in order to set them off? Would want something fragile being handled by them.

Matt

go read it again...the "bag" is the pc of baggage........

[Matt3357]

I read it again. The part where it says they were in a bag is subjective. It is a quote and can be read either way. Who knows how they were actually packaged, but I don't see how under normal handling they would ignite if they were in their original packaging. All I know for sure, is that I'm surprised they knew what they were called and what they are used for.

Matt

[DanWalker]

I'm guessing he was transporting primers to a drug gang. If I remember correctly Jamaica has really restrictive gun control laws. I'm betting he was resupplying some underground(illegal) reloading outfit.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Flew from Boston to Miami, and explosives in a bag were not detected??? I think this is as much an indictment of the baggage screening hardware we've paid millions for, as for the mule... Boston is where three of the terror flights on 9-11 originated, and it was supposed to be one of the first- and most-upgraded airports as far as security measures go... Looks like those multi-million dollar machines that sniff baggage for explosives still don't work any better than the dogs they used to use.

:holysheep

[phaessler]

I remember going on my honeymoon to Colorado, was back in the mid 90's when first real primer scare happened, we flew out with fishing equipment and cameras. Just getting down to the end of the 10K I bought there, and the R12 refrigerant was like money in the bank. Those throw away foam coolers sure can hold their weight on a plane, dont ask me how I know.. ha ha ha

[1Shirt]

Am always somewhat amused, occaisionaly annoyed, and often irritated by the ignorance of some newcasters both male and female regarding the incorrect nomenclatures of things related to fire arms. In this case, I heard "bullet primers"used repeatedly, the term "bullet" instead of cartridge, and "I don't know the right term, but it is the thing that makes the bullet go off". When it comes of knowledge of firearms related issues, I think overall the media is staffed with large quantities of knowitall numbnuts! Also heard one (only one) report that it was an arosol can that blew, and that the primers were discovered. One picture I saw of the luggage shown it blown appart pretty well, but I could not see any charring, which I assume would be quite likely if a number of primers hand ignighted.:coffeecom:
1Shirt!:coffee:

[leftiye]

News casters, not new casters! I thot you were talking about me.

[EOD3]

You know fellas, the REAL story here is that NO CRIMINAL ACT was committed by the airline passenger. There is NO prohibition of carrying rifle or pistol primers in your luggage. I can only imagine what the baggage monkeys did to the bag to make the primers pop

OH, wait, maybe (just maybe) the TSA snoops found them and then realized they were perfectly legal so they had to do something to FOIL this obvious terrorist conspiracy. You think maybe?

[Matt3357]

Just because something is not illegal, doesn't mean you should do it. If in fact he was transporting them in packaging other than from the factory, he was an idiot. No matter how they handled his baggage, which I would assume consisted of actions similar to a person playing football, he is still an idiot. There is no law against being an idiot, but I sure don't want to be one.

Matt

[EOD3]

Just because something is not illegal, doesn't mean you should do it. If in fact he was transporting them in packaging other than from the factory, he was an idiot. No matter how they handled his baggage, which I would assume consisted of actions similar to a person playing football, he is still an idiot. There is no law against being an idiot, but I sure don't want to be one.

Matt

Be good enough to fill us in on EXACTLY what the packaging and luggage was in the "idiotic" perfectly legal act. Don't forget the links.

[DanWalker]

He was heading to Jamaica? Does anyone here know the Jamaican laws about the importation of firearms or reloading components? I'd like to know if what he was doing was against Jamaican Laws.

[Matt3357]

http://www.enterprisenews.com/news/cops_and_courts/x338105749/Ammunition-primer-caps-aren-t-prohibited-in-checked-luggage-on-airlines

Well here is this link that informs you of his intentions and how his stuff was packaged. Sounds like prime idiot material to me. Again, this article states that it is not illegal to check primers on an air plane if they are in a safe package.


In the second checked suitcase, investigators said they discovered hundreds of .45-caliber ammunition primers in a plastic bag concealed in the suitcase lining.

Doesn't sound like safe packaging to me.

[EOD3]

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-beat/Hairspray-Styles-Bomb-Scare-Miami-Aiport.html



The FBI has identified the man who was arrested Tuesday after TSA officials said his luggage contained volatile ammunition parts, which caused his bag to explode just before it was about to be loaded on a plane.

Orville Braham, 37, had 500 to 700 bullet primers in his luggage. Primers are considered the "spark plugs" of a bullet and ignites the gun powder, projecting it toward the intended target.

Federal prosecutors argued Wednesday that Braham should be held in detention until trial because he is a high flight risk. He was headed to Jamaica when the bag exploded.

Officials originally said the exploding bag was caused by a hairspray aerosol can.

I'm willing to bet GOOD money that the TSA found the primers and stirred the pot then had to do something to cover their mule.

[.357]

I've checked primers they like ammo I was told need o be in a crush proof container and declared at check in, now that's all US law don't know about Jamaica.

[Matt3357]

Thanks for the apology EOD, I appreciate it.

I wouldn't doubt that they would find some way to get this guy in trouble, but wouldn't you think that they would just get him for not checking the primers and not having them in a suitable container? Rather than causing them to explode or detonating an aerosol can? Also, he was carrying a dismantled loading press which could have easily detonated a primer if it caught a primer between the suitcase frame and a heavy piece, which would explain how they went off in a soft padded environment. It could have been that he had no ill intentions for the equipment at his destination but based upon his history of dumb ideas (armed burglary, etc), I wouldn't count on it.

Matt

[Matt3357]

Also to address the aerosol can issue. If you were a guy that was handling baggage with all of the bomb scares, even if you were an avid reloader, what would be the first thing you would do if a bag suddenly exploded when you sat it down? I don't know about you but I would run like hell. And since it was a small explosion, and people commonly carry aerosol cans in their checked luggage, it could very well have been that this was early speculation by the luggage handler that got reported to the authorities before they began investigating it.

My first thoughts on a small explosion from a piece of luggage would not have been "Oh I bet this guy was hauling almost 1000 primers in his bag and I accidentally detonated one which set off a chain reaction." Especially if he had not clue what a primer even was.

Regardless of what really happened, we are all just speculating to some extent. Since we weren't there, the only people that really know is the TSA and they already gave their story...

Matt

[firefly1957]

This guy should not be allowed to talk to the ignorant press that reports what he said as fact.
"Leverock would not provide details or speculate on how the bag might have gotten on the plane. He compared the primer to a "spark plug" for the bullet." we all know bullet is the wrong term.
I recently read another news story that said primers are illegal as checked baggage along with percussion caps and any loose (canned) black or smokeless powder. I think it was the NRA that printed that but could be wrong? I am wondering if those primers were in the feed tube of that reloading press and if one started a fire in clothing it would have smoldered and slowly lit others Fire would of intensified on opening case adding more oxygen it is a good thing they were found instead of setting luggage on fire in air born plane.
In 1989 I had to fly to Florida out of Detroit Metro airport the news was full of stories of stolen luggage and I had a CB, radar detector, 52 inch magnetic mount antenna plus other stuff in suit case as I was driving back from Florida. I put my clothes in one side of suit case and put that spring steel antenna in so if the suit case was opened it would spring out and locked the suit case. When I got to Florida everything was in case but mixed up and that antenna must have had 20 feet of tape holding it together !!!!! I have a feeling someone had to change his pants that day in those days theft was our biggest worry but a few years later I found out that was the week that they learned the bomb that brought down the plane over Scotland was hidden in a radio!!! We could still take a pocket knife on a plane then too how times have changed.

[woodyubet]

:???: 45 caliber ammunition primers :???:

I've checked all my primers, and none of them are marked as 45 caliber, or 357 caliber, or 454 caliber, or 460 caliber, or 500 caliber.

One would think that a news reporting agency would have someone with technological knowledge or at least someone capable of research. Screwups like this remove any credability they might have had.






A very wise man once told me..."Don't believe any thing you hear...and only half of what you see".

[mike in co]

gues what...the latest large pistol primers from muron russia, sold by tulammo are marked 45 on the 5k slleve........not lp (large pistol).
so, close...but still just stupid press talking heads...



:???: 45 caliber ammunition primers :???:

I've checked all my primers, and none of them are marked as 45 caliber, or 357 caliber, or 454 caliber, or 460 caliber, or 500 caliber.

One would think that a news reporting agency would have someone with technological knowledge or at least someone capable of research. Screwups like this remove any credability they might have had.






A very wise man once told me..."Don't believe any thing you hear...and only half of what you see".

[firefly1957]

Some of mine are marked "BR" (CCI bench rest)

[chris112]

If you want an idea of how baggage handlers treat luggage go to youtube and search for "United breaks guitars". Good song but is based on a real life experience.