PDA

View Full Version : HP expansion test.



JeffinNZ
12-29-2010, 05:20 AM
Team.

This evening I fired some of my HP .32-20 (Lyman 31133) and .223 (Lyman 225462 HP by Erik) into soaking wet telephone books at both 50 and 100m and recovered, where possible, the expanded bullets. Approx 8 inches of phone books was used at both ranges. All bullets were air cooled wheel weights. The .32-20 load is 106gr departing at 1850fps and the .223 load 55gr, is exiting at 2100fps. Here is the result:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/DSCN2124_033.jpg

The .32-20 'button' is from 50m and weighs 31gr. The 100m .32-20 bulets passed through the books completely as they had slowed enough not to fragment so maintained enough mass and momentum to penetrate 100%. The .223 bullets are from both ranges and basically fragmented on impact and the larger one is 19gr.

Impact velocity of the .32-20 bullets would be approx 1600fps at 50m and 1400fps at 100m. Impact velocity of the .223 bullet would be approx 1800fps at 50m and 1550fps at 100m.

One .32-20 bullet at 50m impacted high enough on the books it blew out the top edge and the cavity was 3 inches across. New shooters should be shown this sort of experiment to demonstrate the power they hold in their hot little hands!

All in all, very satisfying. That said I don't hunt wet phone books so.........

Bass Ackward
12-29-2010, 09:04 AM
I'm glad that you produce a result that is what you wanted.

Up here, phone books can be a real challenge. Especially in some areas with a heavy recycling commitment. Either wetting or defacing can be tantamount to heresy. I know because I am verbally chastised every time I take them in.

Coarse I state my position best I can. :grin:

quack1
12-29-2010, 12:03 PM
Jeff- I use that same bullet, but hollowpoint it in a lathe. I use a .085 drill bit and drill in about 1/2 the length of the bullet. Never checked expansion in phone books, but they expand pretty good in groundhogs (only animal I ever shot with them). Your HP looks bigger in diameter than mine, could you measure the diameter of your HP pin and depth of the hole? I'm curious how they compare. Thanks.

x101airborne
12-29-2010, 01:41 PM
Excellent first hand assessment. What do you mean you dont hunt wet phone books? Taste like chicken!! of course, I dont really care for chicken.

Moonie
12-29-2010, 01:48 PM
Excellent first hand assessment. What do you mean you dont hunt wet phone books? Taste like chicken!! of course, I dont really care for chicken.

Obviously you cook your chicken a tad differently than I :holysheep

Harter66
12-29-2010, 02:24 PM
That is the very sort of demo I did when my kids were big enough to go places on their own feet.

I was a big fan of "this little bullet".

Intresting results, I like the part where the "old anemic"32-20 is carring twice the energy and penitration of the 223.

missionary5155
12-29-2010, 03:10 PM
Greetings
The lowly 32-20 is one of the best kept secrets in the shooting world. I hope it stays that way until I can get my fingers around a few other lever type launching platforms.
I can say it is my favorite ground hog tool and makes one nice "crawling about through the brush" type cartrige.
Cant say I have ever popped ant phone books... surely they have to taste less greasy than ground hog stew.

fredj338
12-29-2010, 03:29 PM
FWIW, I find wet phone books an exc test of expansion. Bullets I have recovered form wetpack look amazingly liek the few I have been able to recover from game. I would want a bit less fragmentation though. What was your alloy? I find too much antimony (ww or lino) causes fragmentation like that. For handguns, I like 25-1 or 20-1 max lead/tin for nice uniform expansion. I understand a 50/50 lea/ww mix & water dropped gives sim expansion to the 20-1 alloy.

JeffinNZ
12-29-2010, 07:54 PM
Jeff- I use that same bullet, but hollowpoint it in a lathe. I use a .085 drill bit and drill in about 1/2 the length of the bullet. Never checked expansion in phone books, but they expand pretty good in groundhogs (only animal I ever shot with them). Your HP looks bigger in diameter than mine, could you measure the diameter of your HP pin and depth of the hole? I'm curious how they compare. Thanks.

RE the 225462: My HP pin is tapered and is .090 at the mouth, .060 at the apex and generates a HP .390 deep which is about 2/3 of the bullet. Fragmentation of this bullet is very desirable.

RE the .32-20: Like many other calibres limited to lower pressure loading for older weapons it is often overlooked. The 8X57 is another. Anemic ex factory loading. My .32-20 is a Martini so is good for top end loading. Of course my load would not be suitable for a model 66 etc.

fecmech
12-29-2010, 10:59 PM
Jeff--I think if you cut your WW's 50/50/ with lead I think you might retain more of the mushroom. I got very similar results(1200 fps) slaying 1 gallon water bottles with my .357 HP's, fragmentation of the petals and the core penetrating ala Nosler rifle bullets. Much better results came with a 20/1 lead /tin mix where mushroom was retained. IMO WW alloy by itself is just not malleable enough for HP's, unless of course fragmentation is what is desired.

quack1
12-30-2010, 11:28 AM
Thanks for the measurements Jeff. I agree about wanting fragmentation. The small farms where I hunt groundhogs have scattered houses along the roads, and often cattle and horses grazing nearby. I dont want any lead riccocheting around when I miss or from pass-throughs. From the size of the exit holes I'm pretty sure the bullets are breaking up, but I have never had one that didn't exit the animal. I'm going to use a toaster oven to heat some bullets to near slumping temps, then quench in water to harden them and hopefully get complete fragmentation. I'll try them out this summer when I start hunting hogs.

Bass Ackward
12-30-2010, 11:58 AM
You want fragmentation? Then increase the rate of expansion.

Melt some candle wax in the hollow point cavity, like off a birthday cake candle. Scrape of the top with a vertical knife so that it is level. Velocity will pack it in there and air will take off the excess anyway so all bullets are the same.

It starts the expansion on contact instead of having to have the hollow point fill up with material and start the hydraulic effect. Also prevents the nose collapsing if the strike is at enough of an angle.

grubbylabs
12-30-2010, 07:39 PM
While we are all interested in the subject I would like to ask a question if you all don't mind?


I am mostly interested in casting Flat points so that I get maximum penetration. I am mostly using my ammo for Hunting big game and defense against unhappy big game animals like cow moose and hungry black and grizzly bear.

I am casting with WW at the moment and water quenching. From what I have read this should be fine but I thought I would ask since I have yet to ask.

So any input on the subject is appreciated.