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Jeffery8mm
12-28-2010, 10:03 AM
I need some reloadable 8mm brass. I have read about making it from 30-06 brass. What about using 35 whelen brass?? Same case but already necked up a it more than the -06. Any thoughts??
Thanks
Jeff

Jim
12-28-2010, 10:20 AM
Jeff, THIS (http://fgsp.wordpress.com/2010/12/19/reforming-brass-cases/) might help.

deltaenterprizes
12-28-2010, 10:34 AM
Great link Jim!

DeanWinchester
12-28-2010, 10:37 AM
Ohh this is a lot of fun. Wanna see some weird looks at the gun range? Let someone see you shooting 8mm Mauser - Lake City Match! ....."Ohh sure Lake City made 7,92 Mauser didn't you know?" [smilie=1:

Be careful it becomes addictive though. Reforming brass that is. I have about 500 rounds of .308 winchester, all made from .243 brass I have collected over the years.
Which brings up a good point. Unless you're like me and have no heirs to be concerned about, think about what you leave behind. An 8mm that says 30-06 in the hands of the less knowledgeable would be disastrous. Think military brass. Military brass usually has no caliber designation on the headstamp. It's just a thought.

Jeffery8mm
12-28-2010, 10:37 AM
Jim, that is a GOOD read!!! Thanks a bunch
Jeff

David2011
12-28-2010, 11:01 AM
Good procedure and nice photos. Exactly what's needed for making 8mm. It is fun and addictive to see metal change shape that much.

OTOH, "making" 6.5x55 from ANYTHING is dangerous. The base of the 6.5x55 brass and chamber is about .008 larger than the 8mm/.30-'06/.308 case. It will bulge pretty dramatically- kinda like a Glock bulge on steroids when fired. It will probably hold up for one firing but it isn't worth risking a case rupture IMO. I did it once, made a few rounds like this and then crushed the brass when I got home to prevent re-use.

David

DeanWinchester
12-28-2010, 11:10 AM
David that's good to know. I've never loaded for the swede but it's a good reminder to check, check and check again! Don't assume it's okay because it went through the full length resizer and fit in the gun. Get a micrometer, a pair of calipers and you reloading manual. Check every dimension before loading a "formed" round.
For example. In one of 8mm rifles, HXP 30'06 brass "reformed" does not chamber well. The neck is a touch large in diameter when loaded and crimped. I need to get a neck turning set up and fix it, but they chamber easily in my other rifles. Something as simple as this could cause pressures to skyrocket.

Jim
12-28-2010, 11:31 AM
Once my cases are fireformed, they only get neck sized. That eliminates the constant rebulging and consequent weakening.

Jeffery8mm
12-28-2010, 11:52 AM
What about the 35 whelen brass as oppossed to the 30-06??
Jeff

Chili
12-28-2010, 12:14 PM
I have been reforming 270 Win brass to 8mm for the last few years. I wish there was a way to remove the caliber markings on the headstamp.

David2011
12-28-2010, 12:18 PM
What about the 35 whelen brass as oppossed to the 30-06??
Jeff

All of the cases based on the .30-'06 have a .473" head. The Swedish Mauser 6.5x55 is .480" and is unique among cartridges. Nothing else shares its diameter. Lyman shows that their #27 shellholder only fits the 6.5x55. Hornady doesn't show that anything fits the 6.5x55. Lee shows that their #3 shellholder will fit some other cartridges but they're all rimmed and of the .30-30 size. The true 6.5x55 spec also calls for a thicker rim than the .30-'06 case but that is what I was trying to avoid since the boltface and extractor were intended for the 8mm Mauser which shares the head dimensions of the .30-'06. Remington and Winchester both have the smaller, thinner rim of the .30-'06.

I didn't shoot enough of the reformed cases to determine how accurate they were but with that much play in the chamber I doubt they were up to the reputation of the 6.5x55.

David

Jeffery8mm
12-28-2010, 12:26 PM
I have been reforming 270 Win brass to 8mm for the last few years. I wish there was a way to remove the caliber markings on the headstamp.

I too have been thinking on this. I may try some of the wifes nail polish and a "marker" over the headstamp.
Jeff

Jim
12-28-2010, 12:28 PM
What about the 35 whelen brass as oppossed to the 30-06??
Jeff
I have successfully sized '06 to 6.5 in one step. I've also reformed '06 to 8MM in one step. The mouth of the .35 Whelen will go in the mouth of a 8MM F/L die. Take the collet/nut and sizing ball shaft out of your F/L die, lube the .35 case lightly and push it in. If you have a way of doing so, a LIGHT coat of lube inside the die helps to start this. Once you get the neck of the .35 case in the die, you're gonna hafta put some boonky on the press to get the rest of the case in.
Don't panic when it get's tight. It will come back out. Remember, you're forcing an interference fit and the case ain't gonna just slide right up in there.
If it does jam and you can't pull it back out, the top of the die is open. You can put a drift pin of some description in the open case mouth so that it bottoms out against the case web and GENTLY convince it back down with a mallet or similar dead weight. I just can't see that happening, though.

Go slow and think it through. And let us know how it went.

runfiverun
12-28-2010, 01:48 PM
the whelen will work too.

the 7.7 jap round usually has a larger body at the web area also.
so making it from 0-6 has the same pitfalls as the 6.5 brass.
if i were to do it a wrap of scotch tape would be involved.

Kraschenbirn
12-28-2010, 03:52 PM
Only thing I can see that might be added to Jim's instructions would be to anneal your cases prior to forming...'specially if you're using milsurp brass. I've formed both 8x57 and 7.56x53 from 30-06 and found that the process seems to go a lot smoother with freshly annealed cases.

Bill

frkelly74
12-28-2010, 04:46 PM
35 Whelen brass if it has not been reformed from something else would be quite valuable in its original form or once fired. I guess if I only had one or two I would use them up as 8mm brass but if I had a quantity I would try to sell or trade them off and leverage them into some quantity of 8 mm brass. I have seen new 8mm RP selling retail for about $35 per 50. Someone would want them as the are, possibly quite badly.

evan price
12-29-2010, 07:34 AM
What, you have so much 35 Whelen that you can make it into 8mm? I bet you can trade it off for 8mm or 30-06 at favorable terms.

I made 8mm out of Lake City and got the same reaction as above- "Lake City made 8mm?!?" Was great range conversation. I use the military 30-06 so there is no headstamp caliber to worry about. The RCBS form/trim die works great, need to chamfer and trim a lot though. Worked in military mausers no sweat.

Jim
12-29-2010, 09:24 AM
..... I use the military 30-06 so there is no headstamp caliber to worry about.....

There ya' go!

Some years ago, I lucked up and got hold of a coupla' hunnerd rds. of LC brass. I use that for parent cases. No possibility of thinking it's '06 or something other than what it's formed to.

dragonrider
12-29-2010, 01:53 PM
I make 8MM from 30-06 brass. I reform in the 8MM die, trim to length, then I anneal and resize again. So far this have worked very well for me.

adrians
12-29-2010, 03:23 PM
i use a small circular saw (2" blade) from harbour freight and cut oh 1/4"off to begin with,then i size in my redding 8x57 dies and this way you only have minimal trimming to get correct lenght ,but thats just me ,,
have a great one adrians.:evil:[smilie=s::twisted:

Von Gruff
12-29-2010, 05:00 PM
I have made 7x57 from 30-06 ( and 221 from 222) annealed the case and used a body die in each conversion. Then I used a piece of hard wood and drilled through with a neck caliber sized drill and then used a body sized drill to let the correct amount of neck less a bit protrude and and took the excess off on my linisher. annealed again and FLS, trimmed in my trimmer and I was good to go. The reason I used the longer brass was to get a finished case with thicker brass from the case wall into the neck so I could turn it for a desired thickness.

Von Gruff.

HangFireW8
12-29-2010, 05:15 PM
I have made 7x57 from 30-06 ( and 221 from 222) annealed the case and used a body die in each conversion. Then I used a piece of hard wood and drilled through with a neck caliber sized drill and then used a body sized drill to let the correct amount of neck less a bit protrude and and took the excess off on my linisher. annealed again and FLS, trimmed in my trimmer and I was good to go. The reason I used the longer brass was to get a finished case with thicker brass from the case wall into the neck so I could turn it for a desired thickness.

I've made a great deal of 8mm by running 30-06 through a Lee FL die and cutting off the excess with one of those tiny pipe cutters used by plumbers on copper pipe in tight places. Once you learn where to position the neck visually, there's very little left to trim. I picked up an 8mm file die cheap from fleaBay but hardly ever use it. After chamfer/deburr it usually takes one more trip through the FL die to chamber easily.

I've never had to turn the case neck as commercial 30-06 isn't terribly thick at that point, and all my 8mm/7.92x57mm chambers are, uh, generous. I actually like a bit of extra thickness, it helps fill out the chamber for concentricity. I look out for the "dreaded doughnut" but haven't had any problem.

-HF

adrians
12-29-2010, 05:28 PM
well said hang.

mroliver77
12-30-2010, 02:31 AM
We made 22-250 brass from .308 match brass. Turned the neck to where loaded rounds were .002 smaller than the chamber neck area. When fired the brass expands the .002 and then returns to the original size as it has not stretched. All I need to do is de/re prime, add powder and seat new bullet. After half a dozen firings they have not changed a bit. I think its neat.
Jay

Von Gruff
12-30-2010, 03:27 PM
Jay, that was why I wanted the thicker brass as both of my mentioned chambers have custom reamers used and I can also go for min release clearance. The tapered neck of the 7x57 introduced a couple of extra steps but al in all a very satisfactory outcome. Have even necked 5.56 x 57 up to 7x57 and that has an initial neck thickness of .0275 (for the use of cartridge adapters to fire 22 hornet and 22 mag in the parent chamber)

Von Gruff.

diehard
12-30-2010, 04:43 PM
Kraschenbirn stated:
Only thing I can see that might be added to Jim's instructions would be to anneal your cases prior to forming...'specially if you're using milsurp brass. I've formed both 8x57 and 7.56x53 from 30-06 and found that the process seems to go a lot smoother with freshly annealed cases.

I find this to be true as well. When I skip this step I sometimes have small cracks at the case mouth during the fireforming process (which for me is a full powered load ).

I also have found, as several others have suggested, that trimming almost down to the shoulder of the 06 case before lubing and forming makes the process an easy one step forming process.

Some good stuff in this thread.

diehard
12-30-2010, 05:15 PM
Interested in this Floyd's Gun Shool link Jeff provided, I started browsing through only to find a WARNING against annealing military brass. Now most of the stuff I do anneal is range pick up commercial 06, but military brass might also be included in my pile.
Scroll down to the third article. For new reloader this stuff is confusing; It's kind of like the kapok thing: some swear by it, some swear at it. Only care and common sense can prevail I guess.

http://fgsp.wordpress.com/

Jim
12-31-2010, 08:58 PM
Diehard,
What you're referring to are photos of text from Earl Narramore's book "Principles and Practice of Loading Ammunition", copyright, 1954.
Mr. Narramore was a Master Ballistician and worked at/for several armories and ammunition plants over the years.
I do not endorse or condemn what Mr. Narramore writes. I only published the information on my site for the educational value to others.
As with any information, guidance or suggestions, one must decide what is best for him/herself.

By the way, it's "Floyd", not "Floyd's". Floyd is the name of the town where I live. Not really an issue, just thought I'd mention it.

Thanks for dropping by my site. If I can do anything to help, let me know.

HangFireW8
01-01-2011, 08:06 PM
Interested in this Floyd's Gun Shool link Jeff provided, I started browsing through only to find a WARNING against annealing military brass.

All US military brass, and in practice, all military brass that I know of, is already annealed. In practice it shouldn't need annealing for many refirings.

The text you cited goes on to discuss annealing for the wildcatter, which the 8mm Mauser isn't per se, but 30-06 reformed to 8mm has all the same issues as a wildcat.

-HF

diehard
01-04-2011, 04:00 PM
Jim, thanks for hosting such helpful site. I'm sorry I misnamed your town and your Gun School, not too bright I guess.

I have seen and read so much about annealing that I really didn't intend to give it up...especially since when I get lazy and don't' do it, my brass will crack at the mouth on occaision, even after the first shot.

Thanks for the offer to answer my questions. I certainly have them and will gladly take you up on your offer.

diehard