Lee 170 gr 6.5 MM ....Bent boolits

[twotrees]

OK, Y'All, The mold casts fine.

(Son got me this and the 8MM Karbiner from Midsouth for Christmas) and I had to try some out.

The mold casts .268/.269 and gas checks snap on, BUT when I try to size them in my Lyman 450 (to .264) they Bend !!!!

Alloy was Lyman #2 ( Thought I'd try that first to get a base line. Cast them Christmas night and tried to size them last night.

Unless I want to shoot around corners, These will need to go back in the pot and get remelted. (Hate wasting gas checks).

Anybody got and Idea for me?

Thanks in advance,

[smokemjoe]

Are they bending when you drop them out of the mold , alloy to hot yet?

[1Shirt]

Water drop them for hardness. Consider sizing larger. Try lee mule snot and push thru die. Let us know how you progress pls. Good luck!
1Shirt!:coffee:

[HammerMTB]

It's just my guess, but that 170 grainer has to be VERY long. Trying to size it down .004 may be too much for its length.
Some solutions, none easy: size it in 2 steps of .002
OR, make a custom sizer that is tapered. It would seat the check and slowly taper to your finished diameter. It would then require another step to lube in a more conventional sizer.
OR, if you can shoot them unsized, just put a check on 'em and send 'em downrange! :Fire:

[NSP64]

Slug the rifle barrel. You may not need to size them that much. Use a push through sizer then lube with the 450. Water drop and wait a week. Good luck and post results.

[45 2.1]

Your trying to size them too soon for the amount of size down. Wait till they cure out (about one to two weeks).

[Maven]

twotrees, Do you need to size them to .264"?

[Larry Gibson]

Yes, it is easy to bend the bullets when sizing, even hardened ones. Back out the stop on the sizer. Snap on the GCs and use a flat faced top punch to push the bullet in nose first untill the GC is crimped on. Do not attempt to lube. Adjust the stop to the nose of the bullet and then push it out. Once all the bullets are sized and the GCs seated/crimped you can then easily readjust the the stop so the bullets can be run through the die and then lube as normal. Since they are sized they will not bend unless you really apply too much pressure on the handle.

Larry Gibson

[Shooter6br]

My 6.5 Jap is .268 Mold drops them at .270

[runfiverun]

264 is dead on bbl spec for a 6.5
most aren't that size.
the 268 sounds about right for most of them, and 266 would do fine in a 260 rem,or 6.5x55.
made recently.
i'd wait also for the alloy to harden or get a push through sizer.
a lyman can be made to push through size and seat a check, but won't lube that way.

[Char-Gar]

Putting pressure on the nose of a long slender bullets will often result in a bend bullet. That is why many of use use a "nose first" sizer. The pressure is on the base and not the nose and there will be no bent bullets. Lee sizers are made this way and Buckshot and others can custom make them to any size. Use these and there will be no more bent noses.

I stopped using the base first method of sizing for anything but handgun bullets years ago.

[geargnasher]

TT, the Lyman 450 ram wobbles in it's bore and will bend the heck out of long, skinny boolits. I ruined a whole batch of Cruise Missiles that I was actually water dropping because the mold had a few burrs and I had to rap the handle hinge pretty hard to get them out. They were bending as they peeled out of the mould block. A quick lap with Bon Ami fixed it.

As has been said, use a flat top punch that doesn't capture the nose, let them age for at least a week, and don't try to size them that much in one pass. Both of my Swedish Mausers have a .2665" groove diameter and very large, long throats, so they like a .2685" diameter at the driving bands.

Gear

[geargnasher]

+1 Chargar, the push-through solves many issues, and the 450 can be used just for lube application afterward.

gear

[twotrees]

The rifle in Question is a Tika 595 and I have had very good luck with a PB 130 gr boolit at 1500 FPS sized this way.

The Boolits are bending during sizing, not coming from the mold.

I'll try waiting a week or so ( Man, thats going to be hard to do !!!) I have the week off and was going to try to work up a load for RedFoxy.

IF I get back to work next week I'll try sizing them in a home made nose first sizer.
(The ME machine shop has a .2655 reamer, and I have some 7/8's 14 stock.

I have sized all my rifle boolits in these 450's since the 70's and this is the first time anything like this has happened.

So, I'll lock on the gas checks and then wait.

Thanks again.

[nanuk]

hey Gear

I read a post where you were using a case trimmer to downsize a PB to GC...

could that work to crimp a GC?

you could snap the GC on, and find the appropriate collet for the diameter and squeeze it on???

think this would work?

[Buckshot]

..............I've bent Ly 311284's and Saeco RG-4's before. They both are longish boolit's but the 2 main issue's were the Lyman 450 ram alignment with the die and the so called, 'Dirt Scraper" groove ahead of the top drive band. That's where they both bent. The hot ticket for major sizing (anything over .002" in 30 cal is drastic to me) is to lube in a Lyman, RCBS or Saeco die 'At' or a thou over the as cast OD, then sent it up through a nose first push through die. No problems.

................Buckshot

[JeffinNZ]

I have bent Cruise Missiles by dropping them too quick from the mould. Easily long with a still soft telegraph pole.

[PAT303]

Just clip the GC on and pan loob. Pat

[NHlever]

The rifle in Question is a Tika 595 and I have had very good luck with a PB 130 gr boolit at 1500 FPS sized this way.

The Boolits are bending during sizing, not coming from the mold.

I'll try waiting a week or so ( Man, thats going to be hard to do !!!) I have the week off and was going to try to work up a load for RedFoxy.

IF I get back to work next week I'll try sizing them in a home made nose first sizer.
(The ME machine shop has a .2655 reamer, and I have some 7/8's 14 stock.

I have sized all my rifle boolits in these 450's since the 70's and this is the first time anything like this has happened.

So, I'll lock on the gas checks and then wait.

Thanks again.

I feel your frustration.... I have cast, and sized all manner of boolits for nearly 50 years now, and that 6.5 boolit is the only one that gave me that problem. It sounds like you are getting some good ideas for a solution here. I sure wish I had this forum for help way back when I had that 6.5 X55. (wish I could buy the gun back for what I paid for it back then too!)

[leadman]

I have the same problem with the bullets from an 8mm Karabiner mold. Think it is when I am trying to size them but checked with my RCBS casemate and they are a little bent from the mold.
Will try waiting longer for the mold to cool before dropping and then wait a week to size and see if that cures my problem.

[geargnasher]

hey Gear

I read a post where you were using a case trimmer to downsize a PB to GC...

could that work to crimp a GC?

you could snap the GC on, and find the appropriate collet for the diameter and squeeze it on???

think this would work?

Maybe, but it would be a lot of trouble. IIRC it was BB to GC, I tried several things after another member came up with the idea.

Gear

[twotrees]

I pulled the ejector stem, threaded stop tube and nut, out of the 450. Took out the die pin and cut off a drill bit. Clamped the drill bit stem in the ram assembly. Lubed them with hornady sizing wax and pushed them through nose first.

Success!!!!! None of them bent!!!!!!!

Now I will re-assemble the die and ejector, snap on the gas checks and run them back in and lube them with Bullshop's speed green.

If I cast another batch soon, I think I'll try the sizing wax and try base first again. It made a world of difference in the force needed to get them through the die.

Thanks All.

[Ben]

Another vote for the Nose 1st push thru sizing system.

" The Way " to size bullets.

[DoctorBill]

Could this bending of the bullet be one possible reason the Cruise Missile
gives keyholing in the 6.5mm Carcano ?

Maybe it is happening w/o some folks noticing - like me !

I drop my bullets onto an old, damp wash rag right out of the mold -
don't let them hit anything hard....

Just a thought ?

BTW - I intend to try the CM in my 257 Roberts x 6.5mm Converted Arisaka
that I just obtained. It slugged out to .266.

DoctorBill

[PAT303]

Put 10 through the sizer and 10 pan loob and see what the difference is. Pat

[DoctorBill]

twotrees -

Was the bend THAT noticeable ? Obviously was....

but I'm wondering if it were not noticeable, but still bent....how many
reloaders are there who are having this happen to them ?

Did you have to put a straight edge up to the sides to see it ?

Never even considered that that could happen !

Wow !

DoctorBill

[22to45]

I hope you bought a 6.5 mm and not a 8 mm.....

[twotrees]

Dr. Bill,

The bench I cast on is slightly lower in the front than the back, so just laying a boolit on the bench, will allow it to roll forward. It's easy to see the bend in the nose of the boolt, on the cruise missile. (Too lazy to shim it back up level)

I set up a piece of tin and rolled all the rest down it, watching the shadow side. I was taught a long time ago the human eye can see differences of .001" IF it has a flat reference.

My job requires I align big hydraulic rams to +- .0015" in both dimensions. I have a dial indicator, and I'll set up my own version of a boolit wiggler to check the "good ones" before load them.

You have me wondering, I might go back and grab some of the "Bent Boolits" that are already sized and lubed. I'll load a few of them for control.

[skeet1]

Lee type sizing would certainly help with the those that are bending while sizing. Lee needs to come up with a way to lube while sizing this way. Since Lee is the one others follow in design maybe they will figure it out.

Skeet1

[swheeler]

Bent Cruise missles is how I found this place, about 04 IIRC. A push through sizer solved the problem for me, but letting them age up, annealing the gas check and using a flat nose punch also let me size conventionally in the lube sizer without bending. My girls were young teens then and loved the old Swede, they sent many thousand CM's downrange.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Unless I want to shoot around corners

I often wondered how James McAvoy did that ?
http://www.moviesonline.ca/TheFeed/index.php?id=wanted-bulletcurve
Jon

[DoctorBill]

Am I doing something wrong ?
skeet1 - "Lee needs to come up with a way to lube while sizing this way."

I ALWAYS lube my Cast Bullets before I size them !

Pushing them thru the LEE sizer w/o lube applied would prematurely wear
the sizer down, so I use the LEE Liquid ALOX (modified with Johnson's Paste
Wax added and rendered down).

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=718275&postcount=1

It gets a bit gummy and sticky, but no worries - and the bullets come out with
the ALOX/WAX in the lube rings.

Then - I re-lube the sized bullets (2x lubing). Been thinking of rolling them in
Lyman's powdered "Super Moly" after sizing....even !

http://www.mynetimages.com/bccec2113d.jpg

Am I missing something ?

DoctorBill

[1Shirt]

What Buckshot says. I don't like to size over 1 thousands with any blt in a lyman or RCBS sizer. If I need to go smaller, will do it w/nose first push thru, and then lube with Lyman or RCBS. Have had no problem sizing the cruse, or the long 8mms. I normally
check/size/lube on the same day I cast. The only bending that I have had was when I opened the mold to fast. Like many things in life, timing is essential.
1Shirt!:coffeecom